Another Weight & Balance Thread

[owlandfox]

First post, so go easy.

Wife has 2013 Ford F150 SCREW, 3.5 Eco Boost, 5.5 bed. 18" tires. Not max tow. Payload sticker says 1401 lbs. Good Firestones, truck is at BSA camp, so I can't read them right now. GVWR for truck says 7200 lbs!

TT is a 2017 ROO, 23IKSS. GVWR for trailer 6628 lbs.

Blue Ox hitch with 750 lbs bars.

with wife, 2 grandsons, me and some stuff in the bed, probably 700 lbs. Tongue weight was listed at dealer as 550 lbs. Yes, it was empty. So we added our usual stuff (original camper was a popup) So, camp chairs, tool bag, those sorts of things. I'm guessing about 650 on the hitch.

Drove to the UP of Michigan, no real issues, except for a terrible headwind.

3200 miles later, I did notice the nose of the truck a little high and weight and balance training came into play. (22 years USN Aviation) I decided to purchase a hydraulic tongue scale.

Weighed trailer at hitch .... almost 700 lbs! Probably going to swap out bars to the 1000 lbs ones.

so question is. Do the manufacturers actually weigh campers before they put the sticker on, or is this a guideline? Are hitch weights usually that far off? Or, once again, are those "averages"?

As camper is new to me, grandma and I are working through the "take this, don't take that" and then where to place it. I've convinced her that weight and balance are important!

(BTW, I am weighing the rig soonest to get true numbers)

Great Forum, love the comraderie.

Scott/Kathy
Virginia Beach, VA
2013 Ford F150 SCREW, 3.5 Eco, 5.5
2017 Roo 23IKSS

[emm-dee]

My trailer was 300 pounds lighter than the FR stated weight. The tongue weight (via Sherline and CAT scale) was 90 pounds less. Unless you go to a cat scale all the numbers (except max gross weight) are just a WAG.

[Wobbles]

My understanding is that the stated tongue weight(naked) does not include things like propane bottle(s) and battery.

[Airdale]

The trailer manufacturer’s hitch weight is an official number used one time before the trailer is sold. For the trailer manufacturer the published hitch weight when added to the total GAWR MUST equal or exceed the GVWR.

Once you own a trailer all weights are your responsibility.

[jking46]

1. The hitch weight as listed on the camper is the number created when this camper was weighed at the factory.
2. Battery weighs 40 lbs or so.
3. WDH adds another 50 lbs.
4. Anything added to the camper in front of the axle will add weight also.
5. You should be fine if you don't load the truck to the max. Put more gear in the camper near the axles. Too much in front will increase tongue weight. Too much in back could cause tail wag.
6. FWIW....I pull the same camper with a 2013 Ram 1500 4x4 quad cab hemi. I'm close on payload but well under on tow capacity. Pulls well with no issues.

[CaptnJohn]

Originally Posted by Wobbles

My understanding is that the stated tongue weight(naked) does not include things like propane bottle(s) and battery.

Over the last decade +/- full propane is included in factory guess....

[emm-dee]

My tongue weight according to the Sherline scale was lighter than factory published number, even with battery and dual propane.

[Airdale]

Originally Posted by CaptnJohn

Over the last decade +/- full propane is included in factory guess....

You are correct. The regulation was enacted in early 2007 and currently reads like this... "If applicable, the weight of full propane tanks must be included in the RV's UVW and the weight of on-board potable water must be treated as cargo." That is a quote from FMVSS 571.110, Paragraph S9.3.2.

[lbrjet]

UVW is not tongue weight. No regulation states that propane must be added to the published tongue weight.


2010 F250 5.4L 3.73
2011 Flagstaff 831FKBSS
Equal-i-zer 4pt 12K

[Airdale]

Originally Posted by lbrjet

UVW is not tongue weight. No regulation states that propane must be added to the published tongue weight.


2010 F250 5.4L 3.73
2011 Flagstaff 831FKBSS
Equal-i-zer 4pt 12K

Where is the propane weight located?
Propane must be figured as part of the trailer's UVW.
Published tongue weight is a mandatory requirement for the trailer manufacturer. How they figure it is not relevant as long as the figures satisfy NHTSA.

[lbrjet]

If you are trying to say that propane is included in the published tongue weight (in your round about way) then of course it is relevant how they calculate it. I know that many people, including myself had at least a 100 lb difference between the published tongue weight and the actual tongue weight of new trailers.


2010 F250 5.4L 3.73
2011 Flagstaff 831FKBSS
Equal-i-zer 4pt 12K

[emm-dee]

Originally Posted by Airdale

Where is the propane weight located?
Propane must be figured as part of the trailer's UVW.
Published tongue weight is a mandatory requirement for the trailer manufacturer. How they figure it is not relevant as long as the figures satisfy NHTSA.

I'm not saying the mfgr doesn't have to publish the tongue weight, but where do they show it. It is nowhere on my trailer. The only info I've found is shown on the FR website. I don't think that would meet a specific gubment requirement. BTW, at delivery my weighed tongue weight, with battery and full dual propane tanks, came in less than the website published weight.

[Airdale]

Originally Posted by emm-dee

I'm not saying the mfgr doesn't have to publish the tongue weight, but where do they show it. It is nowhere on my trailer. The only info I've found is shown on the FR website. I don't think that would meet a specific gubment requirement. BTW, at delivery my weighed tongue weight, with battery and full dual propane tanks, came in less than the website published weight.

Find and read the specs for the trailer. The tongue/hitch weight is published there. I've previously provided the regulation that shows how the tongue/hitch weight is used in the weight calculations for the trailer- FMVSS 571.110, Paragraph S9.3.2 - why dont you read it?

BTW, at delivery my weighed tongue weight, with battery and full dual propane tanks, came in less than the website published weight.

That's because the regulation describes a GVWR condition.

[emm-dee]

Originally Posted by Airdale

Find and read the specs for the trailer. The tongue/hitch weight is published there. I've previously provided the regulation that shows how the tongue/hitch weight is used in the weight calculations for the trailer- FMVSS .2 - why dont you read it?

BTW, at delivery my weighed tongue weight, with battery and full dual propane tanks, came in less than the website published weight.

That's because the regulation describes a GVWR condition.

The only specs I can find are the ones on the white and yellow stickers. The website lists what FR says is specifications, but those are in a single statement referring to tha specific model...not a specific unit.

The requirements spelled out in the FMVSS statements don't mean diddly squat to the owner if documentation complying with them is not provided. That reg says the sticker on the forward right passenger entry has to have the relevant values for water and hitch weight. Here's a picture of that required placard on my trailer. Can you find the hitch weight (as required per your referenced regulation)?

[CaptnJohn]

When I ordered our 1st tanks were supplied at the dealer. You chose the size and number. I went with two. 20# as running dry was not an option. Big Reese hitch and sway control was added. Don't recall ever seeing or hearing any numbers. The 1974 Plymoith Fury pulled it without any problem over thoussnds of miles over 4 years. Things have changed in the last 42 years. That 369 cu in motor and 727 transmission in that car probably matched or exceeded many 1/2 ton trucks of today.

[Airdale]

Originally Posted by emm-dee

The only specs I can find are the ones on the white and yellow stickers. The website lists what FR says is specifications, but those are in a single statement referring to tha specific model...not a specific unit.

When you read the government regulations. Published means published.

Here is a FR reference with published hitch weights. Other regulations require that statement to be in the specs.

When one is researching government regulations all that are pertinent to the specific subject must be read to get the whole picture.

Evo Travel Trailers by Forest River RV

On edit: S9.3.8 The permanent RV trailer supplemental label must contain the following information in accordance with Figure 6:

(a) The statement “CAUTION: A full load of water equals XXX kg or XXX lbs of cargo @ 1 kg/L (8.3 lb/gal)” with appropriate values included.

[Too Tall]

I was pretty impressed when I am Weighed my tongue for the first time also my trailer was pretty much maxed out as far as gross weight but the tongue was carrying 380 pounds more than I thought it would be. However, I had it 2 -6 volt batteries and had a full potable water tank which is between the tongue and the front axle so I'm not surprised that I had more tongue weight but that was more than I expected.

[CraigBean7672]

When weighing you want to know more than the total weight of the trailer.
Try to get a separate measurement on the front and rear axles, also left and right sides, if possible.

If you search this forum you should find specific advice and useful forms on best ways to weigh your rig.

I had a 600lb difference between front to rear axles and that is quite a lot. So to fix that I needed to get the trailer level while in tow mode. I ended up raising my hitch to raise the nose of the trailer. I've gone as far as I can with hitch adjustment and I'm pretty close to level now and will need to add air bags to raise it further. I have to return to the scales to see if raising it made a difference.

To check if yours is level just use a tape measure from bottom of frame rail to the ground to measure at the front and rear of the trailer.

[Oaklevel]

A few term changes. They do not call it dry weight any longer.. and UAW old dry weight? is typical weight


From a current Palomino Brochure

GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) – is the maximum permissible weight of the unit when fully loaded. It includes all weights, inclusive of all fluids, cargo, optional equipment and accessories. For safety and product performance do NOT exceed the GVWR.

GAWR (Gross Axle Weight Rating) – is the maximum permissible weight, including cargo, fluids, optional equipment and accessories that can be safely supported by a combination of all axles.

UVW (Unloaded Vehicle Weight)* – is the typical weight of the unit as manufactured at the factory. It includes all weight at the unit’s axle(s) and tongue or pin and LP Gas. The UVW does not include cargo, fresh potable water, additional optional equipment or dealer installed accessories.
*Estimated Average based on standard build optional equipment.

CCC (Cargo Carrying Capacity) ** – is the amount of weight available for fresh potable water, cargo, additional optional equipment and accessories. CCC is equal to GVWR minus UVW. Available CCC should accommodate fresh potable water (8.3 lbs per gallon). Before filling the fresh water tank, empty the black and gray tanks to provide for more cargo capacity.
**Estimated Average based on standard build optional equipment.



Each Palomino RV is weighed at the manufacturing facility prior to shipping. A label identifying the unloaded vehicle weight of the actual unit and the cargo carrying capacity is applied to every Palomino RV prior to leaving our facilities.

The load capacity of your unit is designated by weight, not by volume, so you cannot necessarily use all available space when loading your unit.

****************** Does not mention weighing the tongue/ pin.................................

[Oaklevel]

If you need to know how to weigh go to CAT Scale web site : https://catscale.com/how-to-weigh/ ....... scroll down for campers and motor homes