Anyone ever convert bumper pull to gooseneck style? - Page 2

MillerTime · 08-05-2013, 09:20 AM

When you do it you could always bolt the new neck down the channel of the trailer main frame, and take the old tongue and make plates that fit on it and have the same hole patern so that you can reverse your mod whenever its time to upgrade.
I like reversable mods myself, and bolts are much stronger than many peoples welds. Just an idea and if it doesn't work out like you hoped, maybe the wifey wont give you so much flac!

avolnek · 08-05-2013, 09:25 AM

That's actually a dang good idea! may ease the wife's mind enough!!! Thanks buddy!

MillerTime · 08-05-2013, 09:54 AM

No prob! Good luck with your build!!

OldCoot · 08-05-2013, 10:39 AM

I don't think it would be that complicated to fab the gooseneck portion. Would love to take the challenge. Bring it to Concord, NC, we'll "git 'er done".

avolnek · 08-05-2013, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldCoot

I don't think it would be that complicated to fab the gooseneck portion. Would love to take the challenge. Bring it to Concord, NC, we'll "git 'er done".

Oldcoot you were one of those I was hoping to hear from! Do you think it would be a wise idea to do such? Would it ruin a chance of re-selling or trading back to a dealer period by converting it?

Do you think it would pull better?

The fab work to me is pretty straight forward and doesn't bother me in the least... my biggest fear is like I said, am I going to be shooting myself in the foot for a possible trade down the road? Or is it even going to improve the towability?

**Platokidd** · 08-05-2013, 11:55 AM

I would look into a few things like...
insurance??, warranties?? and I would think resale or trade in value would take a big hit.
Have fun with the mod

**ependydad** · 08-05-2013, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by platokidd

I would think resale or trade in value would take a big hit.
Have fun with the mod

I have nothing to base it on, but I agree.

jeeplj8 · 08-05-2013, 01:41 PM

I was thinking about this when I was driving down I-70 today looking at campers and trailers in general. I had several thoughts to share.

First - I agree this idea will fall into the category of "killed by DW" like so many of my projects do. But just for argument sake:

The best advice so far came from millertime when he said make it a bolt on modification so it will not be too difficult to go back to bumper pull. I see this as wise from two standpoints, you may do the mod and not like it, or more likely you may want to sell the trailer in the future and find it nearly impossible to sell with the mod.

The leads me to my overall impression of this, if you are even thinking about re-sale value, I would just not do it. I would never personally buy a trailer that has had any frame work. Period, end of story. I think so many people fit in that category you only option would be to trade it and most dealers are going to give you only a faction of value.

I am also concerned about what it might do to weight balance. As has been pointed out, you are going to be adding a fair amount of steel, and all up front. Some people suggested this would add to tongue weight, I am not so sure. As I understand it (and I am far from an engineer) tongue weight is product of both physical weight and leverage. In other words the amount of weight in front of the axle is one factor, but the distance from that trailer axle to attachment point (ball or 5th wheel) is another factor. Since you are going to moving the attachment point forward several feet, I wonder if that wil basically cancel out the additional steel and you will end up with roughly the same tongue weight you have now. that would pretty light for a gooseneck. As stated, not an engineer, maybe someone can advise.

Along those lines - how much of your trailer CCC will you eat up with the additional steel?

Assuming I am wrong on the above point (won't be first time for that) one obvious plus to this idea is turning radius. Backing into a spot at the campground should get a whole lot easier. I would think lifting the trailer a couple inches might be good too so you do not have to build your gooseneck frame and deck so high. The deck itself is another benefit for storage of gennie etc. Once you un-hook, the truck is clear but whatever rode on the deck would still be there out of the way.

I am not sure if you noted this, but you would need to switch to landing gear and this might be much stable than the stab jacks for the front.

avolnek · 08-05-2013, 02:25 PM

Awesome thoughts Jeep!

I do really like the "bolt" on approach. I agree that I doubt that I would ever choose to buy a mod'd camper in such a drastic way. Unless I could trust who it came from. Knowing that the chances of me knowing who I were to possibly sell it to are slim to none and is really my only hesitation!

As far as weight being added, I have found a tongue from a wrecked bobcat goosneck. The tongue weighed 1500LBS. Now this chunk of steel would be OVERKILL for what I am needing. I would guess it would be less than 750LBS once completed.

Being that the length of my trailer is already 36' 4" with roughly 4' of tongue on it now I don't have room for a "deck" on the front of the trailer. I would add some length too it for a storage box as well as the propane and such.

Having to switch to heavier landing gear in the front to me would be a huge benefit in my opinion.

Currently loaded my trailer weighs 8500 with all the camping gear, minus food and BEER!!! LOTS OF BEER!!! With a GVWR of 11,000 that still leaves me 2500. So weight is definitely a concern but not a major one at the moment to me.

I will need to talk to some engineers to see what they think about the possible increase in tongue weight will be for this or lack of increase...

OldCoot · 08-05-2013, 07:54 PM

It could be modified with a bolt on gooseneck is such a manner that it could be unbolted and leave no traces of having ever been changed. Would take a little extra engineering, but not much extra steel and could be removed without leaving a trace of ever having been modified. I think about 8 strategically placed bolts would be all it would take with no welding on the frame.

avolnek · 08-05-2013, 09:18 PM

Thanks OC! That actually got me looking and I found a pretty cool concept! I will post it up in the morning! I am also working on some math to try and figure what it would do to my tounge weight... To me a longer lever arm will lower the tongue weight but adding steel for the new tongue will add weight in the ideal location on the tongue...

**Platokidd** · 08-05-2013, 09:43 PM

If you add weight on your rear bumper or behind the camper wheels it will lower the tongue weight proportionally.
Adding weight to the front of the campers wheels will add weight to the tongue proportionally . Centering the campers wheels to balance out the weight or moving them forward would ease the weight distributing it more evenly. Look at it like a teeter totter when you were a kid. The camper wheels being the pivot point. If you made one side longer that side would drop because of the weight gain.
I have seen a few of these and one did look cool.

avolnek · 08-06-2013, 07:34 AM

Here is what I am looking at currently as far as a "bolt on" application is concerned. My wife has gotten noticeably more concerned... Her biggest fear that I can get her to admit to is that she feels it will look weird... She thinks it will look like a hillbilly addition and we will be a joke in the camp grounds... Personally looks mean nothing to me! Truthfully I could really care less what other people think about the things I own! I say that in one breath and of course it's human nature to want people to like the things you own too of course...

I feel I could fab a similar one of these up with no trouble keeping the weight in the 500LBS range. I wouldn't do any of the adjustable tongue length and height though. I feel that would only weaken and add weight to the setup. The coupler I would need to buy has 8" of vertical adjustment on it anyways...

Let me know some of your thoughts guys...

avolnek · 08-06-2013, 08:58 AM

FYI: I have contacted my insurance company and they said there would be no problem with me making this modification and coverage would continue as usual. I also contacted the Nebraska State Patrol about whether it is legal or not. He said there is nothing saying that I cant so he said in a written email I was "ok" to do this. Only thing he mentioned was making sure that I added new electrical wiring, safety chains, and brake away cable...

Man the wife is going to be sweating pretty quick!

I appreciate all of you who are helping with thoughts and ideas. I don't want to jump into this blindly and make a bad decision. I probably wont even consider anything till winter time or so but I want to be as prepared as I can be...

Cajun Po-Boy · 08-06-2013, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodge Guy

Honestly the pullright is a good design! It allows for an inverted fifth wheel design, that being the pivot point under the truck instead of up top. The only drawback for me is the loss of ground clearance.

X2!

jeeplj8 · 08-06-2013, 09:02 AM

That design actually re-uses the existing a-frame and simply goes over it. Actually a stellar idea. How are you going to handle the propane tanks and battery(s)? Remember, they will need to be accessible for changing etc. Also this design will probably make the tongue longer than it needs to be, which makes the trailer longer...

avolnek · 08-06-2013, 09:15 AM

I haven't fully figured that out in my head yet! that is just the concept I am wanting to go with. I am thinking of having the vertical section of the gooseneck come up on the sides of where my propane tanks are now. So the lower horizontal braces of the adapter would be more on the outside of the A frame and clamp on closer to the camper portion. If not, I will make space into the new adapter to house my tool box with battery, propane tanks and the spare tire. I am hoping to re use the same jack and location for it, but not opposed to moving it and using a new style of landing gear...

I like the concept of the pullrite, it is what I am after but I don't like it. I pull too many styles of trailers for this to really work for me. Also I have a rear sway bar under my truck and I don't want to remove the spare tire for the hitch to be in there... The gooseneck just seems to be the best solution. I still feel the load being placed over the axle rather than hanging off the bumper is going to be the biggest benefit in itself...

avolnek · 08-06-2013, 09:18 AM

Figured I would share the tongue of my trailer currently. I don't have a picture of it with the spare tire mounted under the tongue too but it is right underneath the tool box.

jeeplj8 · 08-06-2013, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by avolnek

I haven't fully figured that out in my head yet! that is just the concept I am wanting to go with. I am thinking of having the vertical section of the gooseneck come up on the sides of where my propane tanks are now. So the lower horizontal braces of the adapter would be more on the outside of the A frame and clamp on closer to the camper portion. If not, I will make space into the new adapter to house my tool box with battery, propane tanks and the spare tire. I am hoping to re use the same jack and location for it, but not opposed to moving it and using a new style of landing gear...

I like the concept of the pullrite, it is what I am after but I don't like it. I pull too many styles of trailers for this to really work for me. Also I have a rear sway bar under my truck and I don't want to remove the spare tire for the hitch to be in there... The gooseneck just seems to be the best solution. I still feel the load being placed over the axle rather than hanging off the bumper is going to be the biggest benefit in itself...

I just have to ask - have you ever pulled another trailer this length and height? I have pulled trailers that were heavier (actually much heavier when I finally figured out how much load I had) but nothing this length before. It is the side square footage that makes these things so wind dependent. My concern is you are going to do this work and generally find it helps, but not a whole lot.

If the DW gets her way we may up in Omaha this fall (state park just to the west, name escapes me) maybe we can get a time to pull each others rigs. Give us each an idea of how well different set-ups do.

As to the design of the vertical rise, I was thinking you would need to be something like either 2x6 box or 4x4 box, but the problem is that I am pretty sure your existing frame rails are narrow than the footprint of the propane bottles side by side. You could change the twin cylinders for a single tall cylinder and mount the batteries next to it vertical as well.

If you wanted to go whole hog, create a good size deck on the tongue, box it, and then fair it back to the front of the surveyor with tin. Put in a couple doors. Would look like an actual 5th wheel (but a vertically challenged one) to the casual eye and also end up being pretty aerodynamic.

avolnek · 08-06-2013, 09:42 AM

I have pulled a number of trailers. Some 20' enclosed car haulers, some stock trailers, car trailers, boat trailers, campers ect... This is the longest enclosed bumper pull I have pull yet correct! I used to pull a highboy flat bed dove tail bumper pull for work and would load tractors, skid steer ect on it and no issues. I don't "have" an issue with how the camper pulls. It doesn't behave like I would like it to. without or with minimal resistance on my sway control it wants to sort of shutter left and right at highway speeds. Most likely due to the tongue weight of the trailer. I did get it weighed with it mostly loaded minus beer and food is all... Total weight of 8500LBS and 900LBS of tongue weight.

You could be right, I could be trying to over kill it, there is no doubt about that! Just wanting look at a few options...

The only 3 options I would really even consider after my research is the Hensley or Propride, reese straight line or gooseneck adapter... The propride would be great, just dont care to shell out that kind of money for a hitch... The straight line might work, might not, and it still leaves me pivoting like a bumper pull which can make backing more difficult with a 36' trailer... and the gooseneck has obvious fab concerns but seems like it would provide the best stability, the best tow, ride ect (if done correctly)...

so still all thoughts...

are you referring to Mahoney state park? We would gladly meet up with you if you planned a trip there.

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