Are fuel additives cost effective

[Jim34RL]

Originally Posted by Villagerjjm

The only additive I would use is the Seafoam. I

Not in a diesel fuel system! May work on a gas vehicle.

The question the original poster asked was for diesel fuel additives, not a snake oil for on gas vehicles!

[aircommuter]

The way I read the OP is two fold. The title asks if additives are cost effective. The body of the post introduces mileage. It seems as all the replies are addressing mileage?
Having been in the repair business over 50 years and owning a small mostly diesel powered construction fleet this is my observations.
Modern gas engines when used in mixed use conditions or mostly city use can get heavy deposits on the intake valves, Seafoam used full strength into the engine can remove these deposits returning normal performance and mileage. The other option is what we did before which was disassembly and clean manually. So yes additives are cost effective in this case and do increase mileage back to original.
Now for Diesel additives we had Diesels that were losing performance due to injector buildup and filters getting the asphaltene buildup including the pump in our yard for fueling. We found an additive from TRC called Dzl-lene that cleaned the injectors with an initial high dose and kept the filters from getting that black buildup with a low dose in our yard tank. So it was cost effective and increased mileage and performance that was lost.
So it depends on how you look at it. If one thinks any additive is going to just increase mileage without having a mileage loss I doubt it. In order to do that it would have to have a much higher energy content than the fuel itself since it cost many times more per gallon.
Another big thing we found with the small engines that were carbureted was the fuels that contained the 10% alcohol had major problems with water in the fuel systems. Rusted out tanks, corroded fuel pumps, and corroded carburetors. Several additives now available prevented this and were very cost effective.

So is it to increase mileage to save money or prevent problems to save money.
It seems as most are just assuming the question is just a straight mileage increase. Money is always the bottom line.

[RFSims]

Originally Posted by Villagerjjm

The only additive I would use is the Seafoam. I

Seafoam in a Duramax will void the warranty. Owner's manual expressly states any additive with alcohol will void warranty.

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by aircommuter

Modern gas engines when used in mixed use conditions or mostly city use can get heavy deposits on the intake valves,

A large contributor to those deposits on the intake valves is motor oil that is "sucked" past worn valve stem's with worn seals (or just the rubber umbrella's on the stem).

Modern gasoline's use chemicals called "amines" (aka" Nitrogen Enriched" )to keep these deposits down. Among them are:

Polybuteneamine (PBA)
Polyetheramine (PEA); see also Techron
Polyisobutyleneamine (PIBA)

Seafoam's MSDS sheet doesn't reveal which they are using but you can bet it's one of them. If one purchases one of the "Top Tier" gasolines they already have as much of these chemicals as needed.

https://clark.com/cars/top-tier-gas-...an-engine-aaa/

Bad side is that if more is added to fuel then combustion chamber deposits can be increased.

[babock]

Originally Posted by TitanMike

Seafoam's MSDS sheet doesn't reveal which they are using but you can bet it's one of them. If one purchases one of the "Top Tier" gasolines they already have as much of these chemicals as needed.

SeaFoam changed their MSDS because it was receiving a lot of flak. They pretty much hide what's in it now. When it did display everything, it was a mixture of 3 things, naptha, pale oil and isopropyl alcohol...that's it!

Since it has a large percentage of oil, it's the last thing you want to put in the gas tank of a vehicle with O2 sensors.

EDIT: found a copy of the original MSDS
http://www.sueschauls.com/Seafoam_motor_treatment.pdf

[TowPro]

Originally Posted by Jim34RL

Not in a diesel fuel system! May work on a gas vehicle.

I would never use it, BUT.

[CurtPutnam]

A friend of mine, who owned a Chevrolet dealership, religiously dumped a can of injector cleaner (gas) every 3 or 4 tankfuls. Of course, this was before 2003 when he sold out and retired.

[Mtelkman]

I use opti lube summer+ in my old diesel. I have never seen a mileage improvement. I use it because it significantly quiets the engine. That makes it worth it to me. But my truck is 19 years old. It is likely a whole different story on a newer diesel.

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by CurtPutnam

A friend of mine, who owned a Chevrolet dealership, religiously dumped a can of injector cleaner (gas) every 3 or 4 tankfuls. Of course, this was before 2003 when he sold out and retired.

"Back in the day" people poured all kinds of things into the gas tank or down the air inlet.

A popular "de-carboning" method was to pour water int the air inlet of a running engine in a small stream. Water would hit cylinder, flash into steam, and blast loose any carbon that had built up.

Transmission fluid was also added to gas tanks because it was thin and people thought it would clean out engines. It was only successful in ruining catalytic converters.

In the 15 years since your friend retired, gas and diesel engines have changed drastically in engine management systems and the new ones don't like the things we USED to do to them.

[MR.M]

Originally Posted by RFSims

Seafoam in a Duramax will void the warranty. Owner's manual expressly states any additive with alcohol will void warranty.

There are other products for diesels . sea foam in gas does not void warranties . I've never look at sea foam for use in a diesel but will look into it . not sure sea foam contains alcohol. Now sea foam says it's fine for gas and diesel so far cry from alcohol

[MR.M]

Originally Posted by TitanMike

"Back in the day" people poured all kinds of things into the gas tank or down the air inlet.

A popular "de-carboning" method was to pour water int the air inlet of a running engine in a small stream. Water would hit cylinder, flash into steam, and blast loose any carbon that had built up.

Transmission fluid was also added to gas tanks because it was thin and people thought it would clean out engines. It was only successful in ruining catalytic converters.

In the 15 years since your friend retired, gas and diesel engines have changed drastically in engine management systems and the new ones don't like the things we USED to do to them.

Sure engines have changed in 15 yrs . but they still run the same way suck in air and gas , compress ignite create carbon . injectors get clogged same as carburetors . Even GM says to run a cleaner through the gas every oil change or 9000 miles .

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by MR.M

There are other products for diesels . sea foam in gas does not void warranties . I've never look at sea foam for use in a diesel but will look into it . not sure sea foam contains alcohol. Now sea foam says it's fine for gas and diesel so far cry from alcohol

According to the MSDS sheet provided by Sea Foam it contains up to 25% Isopropanol.

Isopropanol is a common laboratory and household chemical with the formula CH3CHOHCH3. It is a colorless and highly flammable alcohol. Is isopropanol the same as isopropyl alcohol? Yes, isopropyl alcohol (or rubbing alcohol) is a common synonym for 2-propanol or isopropanol.

Just because it's called Isopropanol doesn't mean it's not "alcohol".

Kind of like calling "Lye" "Sodium Hydroxide" so it "sounds better".

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by MR.M

Sure engines have changed in 15 yrs . but they still run the same way suck in air and gas , compress ignite create carbon . injectors get clogged same as carburetors . Even GM says to run a cleaner through the gas every oil change or 9000 miles .

Yes they do but there is more to the story.

They recommend only GM Fuel System Treatment Plus or Chevron Techron .

If you always use a Top Tier Fuel there's no need to use any other cleaner.

Just like the advances in engines, the advances in fuel additives INCLUDED IN TOP TIER Gasolines had come a long way in the last 15 years.

[aircommuter]

All valve stems have some oil going past the seal as they need lubrication, second is buildup in the plenum which is from EGR. We always had some buildup with even the oldest engines but much worse with the new ones. This is intake system buildup not combustion chamber that I am referring to. Of course everyone here knows there is more than one type of Seafoam. I started rebuilding engines in 1961 and have seen all these things first hand. I still do some in my home shop but not for the public any more. My friends or my own restorations. The only thing I sub out is crank grinding and line boring if the need arises.

[moose074]

Ok so the additive broke my lie o meter. I have never gotten above 8.8 mpg towing my 5th wheel according to the truck computer. Today I drove 600 miles towing and averaged 10.3.
NO I am not saying that Diesel Kleen added 2.5 mpg , I also changed the fuel filters truck was at 13,300 or their about and just started a 2500 mile trip so figured change before, I also checked and changed air filter, lubed bearings on trlr, checked and correct tire psi
Also no to very little wind today, it was colder so air was denser, and most likely some Devine intervention regardless mpg went up but I can’t say why. Thanks for all replies

[frank4711]

doubt if any additive adds mpg but can't hurt ... much chatter about fresh gas/diesel and top tier .... while in business over 25 years used Shell then Racetrack never a gas related problem shells prices kept going up and pushed me to Racetrack my avg fuel cost monthly was $3000-$4000 .... I do know the Racetrack averaged 2 tankers a day not much time to get old ... my opinion on time maint/filters is what keeps you on the road ... Racetrack not listed as top tier any thoughts ... Thanks

[Dave Lyon]

Originally Posted by MR.M

I have no doubt the additives work . i use seas-foam and lucas . injectors stay clean . it is really noticeable on my motorcycle when it's time to run some sea foam through the gas .Just to add on the Chevy gas 6.0 owners manual says to use acdelco fuel system treatment every 9000 miles or at every oil change .

That's interesting.
I use Costco Premium Gas, 91 octane, with no ethanol. It is a "top tier" gasoline as recommend in my manual. I don't see the need for any fuel additives based on my fuel choice......but, who knows for sure.

[MR.M]

Originally Posted by Dave Lyon

That's interesting.
I use Costco Premium Gas, 91 octane, with no ethanol. It is a "top tier" gasoline as recommend in my manual. I don't see the need for any fuel additives based on my fuel choice......but, who knows for sure.

Snake oil , injector cleaner . it does work . does the top tier gas you use keep injectors clean , Shell seems to think so . I use it in my fuel system twice a yr . Having used it on other engines i know it works and cleans things up . to each his own .

[Chief T]

Originally Posted by Dave Lyon

That's interesting.
I use Costco Premium Gas, 91 octane, with no ethanol. It is a "top tier" gasoline as recommend in my manual. I don't see the need for any fuel additives based on my fuel choice......but, who knows for sure.

After reading your statement and looking at your profile pix, you must have the GM 6.2l which the manual does recommend the highest octane. I would agree you wouldn't need additives.

I live at 5.5k elevation and don't need to run the high octane as the truck runs fine at this elevation. The closer I get to sea level I need to run the high octane though. 86 octane isn't the cleanest fuel, hence I run Sea-Foam to clean things out. I'm not looking to improve gas mileage.

Safe and happy travels.

[Dave Lyon]

Originally Posted by Chief T

After reading your statement and looking at your profile pix, you must have the GM 6.2l which the manual does recommend the highest octane. I would agree you wouldn't need additives.

I live at 5.5k elevation and don't need to run the high octane as the truck runs fine at this elevation. The closer I get to sea level I need to run the high octane though. 86 octane isn't the cleanest fuel, hence I run Sea-Foam to clean things out. I'm not looking to improve gas mileage.

Safe and happy travels.

I have the 6.0 litre gasser.

We can't buy anything less that 87 octane in Ontario (that I've ever seen). We generally have 4 retail grades: 87 (regular), 89 (mid-grade), 91 (premium) and 93 (not all stations carry 93), there may be 94 octane out there at select retailers.