Change in hitch weight on toy haulers?

unklegwar · 05-15-2012, 11:23 PM

If I get a toy hauler and load 2 ATVs in the back, since they are behind the rear axle (mostly) do they wind up lightening the hitch weight at all? I'm visualizing a seesaw with the wheels/axles as the fulcrum. Weight in the back makes the front want to rise. Trying to visualize the WD hitch makes the vision go pretty fuzzy

LadyWindrider · 05-15-2012, 11:32 PM

We have a 2008 Work and Play 18LT. It is a 6000 pound camper with 1000 pounds of tongue weight, (specified, not measured on scales). That is way more that the the 15% max ratio that most folks like to see, 10 to 15% tongue weight vs, trailer weight. Also, most toy haulers have the axle back a little farther than a normal camper, to compensate. If you tow it without the toys in the back, it will be heavier on the tongue, but should work fine. You won't put enough in the back to make the tongue too light.

And WELCOME by the way

unklegwar · 05-16-2012, 12:35 AM

Thanks for the info. I'm not concerned about making it TOO light, but I do want to make it light enough. I need to fit within the payload of my Ram 1500. Some THs have a borderline tonque weight right off the bat, without anything on it. I've got 1340lbs - passengers (2 people, dog = 500), so I have 840 lbs to play with. Figuring in for gas and "stuff" I have 700 to 750 lbs I can take on the hitch. So I want to make sure I don't push it.

Also, any idea how much weight a WD hitch will effectively move off the hitch and back to the trailer?

Danke.

freedom 750 · 05-16-2012, 01:24 AM

My toy hauler has the water tank in the front which weighs about 500 lbs. when full. I usually don't fill it up until I reach my last destination before going off road to play. It does add quite a bit more weight on the tongue. When I go off road for a couple of weeks I have 2 batteries and a couple propane tanks also on the hitch. When fully loaded like this I try to put the heaviest weighted machine in the back of the trailer and the lighter one in the middle to offset some of the extra weight on the tongue. Works for me so far.

LadyWindrider · 05-16-2012, 09:34 AM

How much weight the toys take off the tongue will depend on the weight of the toys, and the configuration of the trailer. I haul 2 motorcycles, total about 1100 pounds. I load side by side, with the front wheels of the bikes on the front axle of the trailer, so my configuration takes very little off the tongue. Your mileage will be different. Sorry can't be much more help.

comfun1 · 05-16-2012, 10:05 AM

I have a 21rr and was concerned about what would happen to the tongue weight also. I loaded my rzr and put it as far forward as I could and still get the refridgerator open. I drove 400 miles and never had any sway problems. I'm using the Andersen Hitch.

unklegwar · 05-16-2012, 11:43 AM

Well, it takes SOMETHING off the tonque, so that's good. A TH with a 750 lb hitch weight that loses 50 or 100lbs off the tongue when loaded in the rear (side by side) would make a big difference.

Total weight would be 2 ATVS at 1400lbs total, short, so behind the axles, most likely.

All this said, maybe I need to trade my new Ram on a new F150 with cargo package. Darn thing just came out with crazy cargo ratings. Grrrr.

LadyWindrider · 05-16-2012, 11:55 AM

If you are trying to haul 1400 pounds, that is going to be a long heavy trailer. Make sure and do the math, not only for the tongue weight, but for the Gross Combined Vehicle Weight, (GCVW), truck and trailer. Sounds like you are going to push the limits. Drive Safely.

unklegwar · 05-16-2012, 12:35 PM

Exactly why I'm posting here. I'm within all specs for GVWR and GCWR. It's just the hitch weight that's an issue. Someone needs to get all Calculus and Physics up in here.
The only thing I can think of is actually LOADING my gear into a trailer and going to weigh it, but chances are being able to do that BEFORE purchase are slim to none. Everything else is just estimation of some degree or another.

Gquist · 05-16-2012, 12:52 PM

If you are buying it from a dealer they might have one of those hitch weight scales like this Sherline Trailer Tongue Weight Scales then you could load your atv's and see how much it changes, Most of the dealers will work with you pretty good until you pay for it anyway.

LadyWindrider · 05-17-2012, 01:34 AM

I can do the math, but you have to have the exact trailer specs, length, width, tongue to axle, axle to rear, and where are the toys going, and what they weigh, front axle, rear axle, of the toys, and exact placement in the camper, and maybe a few more dimensions. The math is easy, for me anyway, it's getting the right numbers to put in the formula that can be challenging, and can cause a world of errors.

Also you mentioned 2 atv's behind the axle. Won't happen. The trailer max width is 8 feet. They won't fit side by side, so one is going on the axle, or forward of it. Now to me atv equals a 4 wheeled vehicle, and most are 4 feet wide, or wider. The max camper width allowed by law is 8.5 feet, add wall thickness.......and you might get 8 feet wide inside, more like 7.5 feet inside. Sure they will fit?

Sorry, not trying to rain on your parade, just make some careful measurements

unklegwar · 05-19-2012, 12:46 PM

These guys are both a bit shy of 4' wide, 44" ish. I'have to check the specs since it's an Outlander and a Sportsman.

But you're right, I'd have to check the cargo width of the expected TH. Plus, I worry about the wheel well covers encroaching.

I'm starting to think it would just be easier to put the dog and the girlfriend in the TH, so I have the extra cargo weight allowance on the truck

Regardless, I think I might just take the easy route and consider trading my Ram for an F150 with the super cargo package that'll give me like 2400lbs of cargo, and so a much higher tongue weight tolerance.

Anyone want a really nice Ram 1500?

rkswyo · 05-19-2012, 01:50 PM

Do you plan on putting the two ATV'S side by side or end to end? Either way if they are behind the axle it will make a significant difference in the tounge weight. My last toyhauler would haul two ATV's end to end and with two in there you could notice a difference. As someone else said earlier, the water tank being full "evened" it out some.

h20ski · 05-19-2012, 02:55 PM

I have know idea which th you are looking at but here is an example of what you are looking at for weight changes. This is only an example as windrider said "need alot more information".

750 lb tongue, 14 ft distance from tongue to center line of axles.
1400 ATV loaded side by side
Center of gravity of the 2 ATV 16 ft from tongue, or 2' aft of the center line of axle.
-200 lbs on tongue
axle weight increases 1600 lbs.

I want to remind you this is only an EXAMPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Happy TH shopping.

unklegwar · 05-20-2012, 12:10 PM

I'm still juggling information. Knowing that loading cargo behind the axles will lift the tongue does help. If I can find a read-loading TH that can fit my ATVs side by side, I would get that, but sounds like that might be near impossible. Failing that, it seems an enclosed TH with a long cargo area behind the axles is my best bet. I'll also pay close attention to where the water tank(s) is (are). Loading the CanAm (lighter) first and the Polaris (heavier) last in an in-line cargo load also seems in my best interest.

Thanks for all the practical info. I can go in a bit more forearmed now.

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