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04-29-2014, 08:26 AM
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#21
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Central New York
Posts: 1,165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thestrangebrew
Hey all,
Looking at an F150 ecoboost xlt 4x4 for a TV and came across one that has the 7350 pkg, 3.55 electronic slip with tow pkg, int. brake controller. The GVWR is 7350, but payload is only 1212 on it. We're looking at getting a Roo 19 so I'm confident this truck will handle it fine, but the payload seems kind of low for this vehicle. What do you guys think?
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We tow our Roo (23IKSS) with an F-150, but it has the 3.73 gears and a little more payload capacity. The 3.55 sounds like it has the tow package, but not the max tow package, which increases the payload to 7500-7700 pound range and gives you the 3.73's. Then their is the max payload package, which really increases payload and therefore the true amount you can tow because it will allow for much more tongue weight. Overkill for the Roo 19.
The max payload package is not common. The max tow package is more readily available. But as a daily driver, you might like the 3.55 with the regular tow package better.
I think you would be fine with this truck pulling the 19 if you watch what you put in the truck. We do the same thing - I keep cargo in the bed to a minimum. I weighed ours, and the tongue was about 300 lbs over the brochure weight - 800 lbs total. But we have 2 batteries, plus propane on the tongue and all our gear in the trailer, so that seems reasonable.
I think your decision boils down to whether or not you think you might want to go bigger than the 19 at some point with this tv. If you do, and you have not bought anything yet, find the same truck with the max tow to get a little more payload capacity. Otherwise, you should have a good combination of tv/tt.
__________________
2022 Columbus 379MBC (Previous 2013 Rockwood Roo 23 IKSS)
2023 F-350 (Previous 2017 F250, 2005 F-150)
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04-29-2014, 08:29 AM
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#22
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Shenandoah Valley of Virginia
Posts: 9,280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dustman_stx
This isn't actually an accurate statement. Every truck sticker I've ever seen, the GVWR has been lower than the combined axle ratings.
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Agreed. My truck axles add up to 7600 lbs, but I have a 7200 GVWR.
The statement I made reflects on the current weight of the TV, not the GVWR. The total weight of a vehicle is the weight of all of the axles combined, and that includes the weight of the vehicle, passengers, cargo, and the weight of the trailer tongue (or pin weight). There some discussion earlier in the thread on whether tongue weight was considered in the gross weight of a vehicle......I tried to clarify that with my earlier statement.
__________________
Chap , DW Joy, and Fur Baby Sango
2017 F350 Lariat CCSB, SRW, 4x4, 6.7 PS
2017 Grand Design Reflection 337RLS
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04-29-2014, 08:30 AM
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#23
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Always Learning
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Four Corners, FL
Posts: 21,890
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MtnGuy
Agreed. My truck axles add up to 7600 lbs, but I have a 7200 GVWR.
The statement I made reflects on the current weight of the TV, not the GVWR. The total weight of a vehicle is the weight of all of the axles combined, and that includes the weight of the vehicle, passengers, cargo, and the weight of the trailer tongue (or pin weight). A statement was made earlier in the thread that indicated trailer tongue weight was not part of of the formula.
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Heh, looks like 3 of us got confused with that one. I agree with you here.
__________________
Officially a SOB with a 2022 Jayco Precept 36C
Checkout my site for RVing tips, tricks, and info | Was a Fulltime Family for 5 years, now we're part-timing on long trips
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04-29-2014, 08:43 AM
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#24
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Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 3
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Go on the web and enter tow ratings fo the make, model, year of your truck. Or, you can contact the local Ford garage, and they should be able to tell you. Payload ratings also include passengers in the vehicle, etc. You can find these answers on the web also. Be safe.
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04-29-2014, 08:55 AM
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#25
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Site Team - Lou
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: South Eastern PA
Posts: 23,268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AquaMan
I don't think that's always the case.
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Well, if you have a 3 axle truck you are certainly correct.
__________________
Lou & Freya the wonder dog
2008 GMC Sierra 3000HD Allison Duramax
2019 Flagstaff 8529FL
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04-29-2014, 08:59 AM
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#26
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 3,249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MtnGuy
Agreed. My truck axles add up to 7600 lbs, but I have a 7200 GVWR.
The statement I made reflects on the current weight of the TV, not the GVWR. The total weight of a vehicle is the weight of all of the axles combined, and that includes the weight of the vehicle, passengers, cargo, and the weight of the trailer tongue (or pin weight). There some discussion earlier in the thread on whether tongue weight was considered in the gross weight of a vehicle......I tried to clarify that with my earlier statement.
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I'm with you now.
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04-29-2014, 09:00 AM
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#27
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Site Team - Lou
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: South Eastern PA
Posts: 23,268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dustman_stx
This isn't actually an accurate statement. Every truck sticker I've ever seen, the GVWR has been lower than the combined axle ratings.
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I think he meant actual weight (ie gross weight) and not maximum gross weight. Gross weight is the actual weight on the truck frame.
Maximum Gross Weight is the maximum actual weight allowed by the manufacturer on the frame. Maximum Axle weight varies by axle and has no bearing on the overall MAXIMUM weight (just the maximum weight allowed on that particular axle) - (Unless of course it IS the weight limited item - never the case because there are two or more of them to share the load).
__________________
Lou & Freya the wonder dog
2008 GMC Sierra 3000HD Allison Duramax
2019 Flagstaff 8529FL
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04-29-2014, 09:22 AM
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#28
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Beaver, PA
Posts: 911
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go weight your truck and then look at GCWR and do the math - that is your real payload figure.
Usually the published figure is 1/2 tank of gas and 150lb driver and nothing else...so tonneu covers, bed liners, the hitch, other options, people, full tank of gas, etc are part of what is 'payload'.
And yes, you can get to the vehicle limit in a big f'n hurry!
Our silverado has a GVWR of either 7k or 7200..forget which, but with us, the kids, dog, hitch, etc we're very close. Now we have plenty of towing capacity - so the simple solution is to move cargo into the TT.
__________________
Chris, Wills (16) Evie (13) & Toby our collie (6)
2011 Grey Wolf 28BH
2013 Chevy K1500 Crew w/ Reese StraitLine Dual Cam
Nights camped 2011: 11 2012: 18 2013: 12 2014: 12 2015: 13 2016: 56 2017: 8+
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04-29-2014, 09:49 AM
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#29
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Phat Phrog Stunt Team
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Tipp City, OH
Posts: 7,154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MtnGuy
Agreed. My truck axles add up to 7600 lbs, but I have a 7200 GVWR.
The statement I made reflects on the current weight of the TV, not the GVWR. The total weight of a vehicle is the weight of all of the axles combined, and that includes the weight of the vehicle, passengers, cargo, and the weight of the trailer tongue (or pin weight). There some discussion earlier in the thread on whether tongue weight was considered in the gross weight of a vehicle......I tried to clarify that with my earlier statement.
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Now I smell what you're steppin' in!
__________________
2016 Georgetown 364TS
2017 Jeep Rubicon Recon toad
Nights Camped 2019 - 17
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04-29-2014, 10:00 AM
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#30
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Beaver, PA
Posts: 911
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Of course the axle ratings have to meet or exceed the truck GVWR rating.
And I'm sure the engineers pick a 'max' figure for a vehicle line and make axles that will exceed the design parameters. Then just use those axles under ALL cars/trucks in that line.
You see it with TT too.
And the tires total weight carrying capacity has to exceed the GVWR also.
Remember, you're limited by the weakest link - and we have no idea what that may be.
And if you want to nit picks, wheels and tires are part of the GVW but since they are not supported by the axles/suspension they are not part of your GVWR. So bigger/heavier tires will show on teh scale but won't have much impact on carrying capacity.
__________________
Chris, Wills (16) Evie (13) & Toby our collie (6)
2011 Grey Wolf 28BH
2013 Chevy K1500 Crew w/ Reese StraitLine Dual Cam
Nights camped 2011: 11 2012: 18 2013: 12 2014: 12 2015: 13 2016: 56 2017: 8+
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04-29-2014, 11:20 AM
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#31
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 383
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Wow ton of good info here. I'm pretty much sold on the truck, even with a payload of 1212. We don't plan on going with a bigger TT anytime soon, and coming from tent camping, we don't have a whole bunch of stuff to begin with. Anything we need to load, can be put in the trailer itself. I'll have to pay close attention to the tongue weight and of course get the truck weighed with everything in it. I'm kind of surprised estimates of actual tongue weight is so high with some of these posts. Propane and batteries really that heavy?
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04-29-2014, 11:35 AM
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#32
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Central New York
Posts: 1,165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thestrangebrew
I'm kind of surprised estimates of actual tongue weight is so high with some of these posts. Propane and batteries really that heavy?
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Yeah - our two group 24 batteries are 46 lbs ea, and each propane tank holds 20 lbs, so that is 132 lbs that is mostly on the tongue. And depending on how you load your gear, you would probably have 12-15% of the weight of the gear on the tongue. So if you load 750 lbs in the trailer, that can easily be 100 lbs.
I think if you estimate where you'll be, this truck should look fine on paper. Then getting an actual scale weight once you have your tt will really help you get the load distributed properly so you stay within the ratings.
__________________
2022 Columbus 379MBC (Previous 2013 Rockwood Roo 23 IKSS)
2023 F-350 (Previous 2017 F250, 2005 F-150)
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04-29-2014, 12:22 PM
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#33
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 3,249
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I'll throw this out there just to confuse you further. Don't go just on the load ratings. What I'm saying is this- let's say you are running 15% tongue weight but are over 200 pounds on the GVWR of the truck. You shift weight to the rear of the trailer by moving gear in the camper and also from the back of the truck. You are now 50lbs. under GVWR and running 10% tongue weight. However, you now have more sway and the truck feels less "planted". My personal opinion would be to run the truck slightly over and I would argue you are in fact safer by doing so. Either way you are handling and stopping the same amount of weight, why shift it into a position that is less stable???? Just understand that towing and safety is MUCH more complex than simply being under some numbers. I still stand by my original position that the combo you propose will be a piece of cake.
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04-29-2014, 12:31 PM
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#34
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Eastern Ontario
Posts: 495
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thestrangebrew
Initially that's what I thought, but I also swore I read that hitch weight and weight of passengers counts against payload. Can't seem to find the stuff I read though.
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Exactly...payload is the total of all passengers,stuff in the bed of the truck and the hitch weight of your trailer.
What most dealers decide to ignore and tell everyone...half ton towable...and giving the DRY weight as actual weight
Black
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04-29-2014, 01:13 PM
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#35
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 383
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I'm sure I'll be fine with this TV. It's what I'm looking for as far as truck and I can't seem to find any max tow pkgs anywhere that are within my budget. Just waiting for the wife to give the final ok and I'll pull the trigger.
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04-29-2014, 01:15 PM
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#36
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Beaver, PA
Posts: 911
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When we moved from an expedition to a silverado 4door and nothing else changed I noticed a few 'changes' from the drivers seat.
Old TV - GCWR was 12.500. It had E (10 ply) tires and 236,000 miles.
New TV had GCWR of 14,500, P rated (4 ply) tires, no miles, and 24" more WB.
Old truck had plenty of power. New one has more, but the old one could accelerate up 9% grades to 70mph.
The longer WB made adjusting the load bars more challenging..if you think about what they're acutally doing you can understand why. I could probably go for the next size up in bars.
The new truck feels like it's squirming on the P tires. Like riding on 4 jiggly blobs of jello.
Don't notice much else being different. Might be a tad easier to backup..could just be me getting more experienced.
__________________
Chris, Wills (16) Evie (13) & Toby our collie (6)
2011 Grey Wolf 28BH
2013 Chevy K1500 Crew w/ Reese StraitLine Dual Cam
Nights camped 2011: 11 2012: 18 2013: 12 2014: 12 2015: 13 2016: 56 2017: 8+
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04-29-2014, 01:19 PM
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#37
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 383
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The WB on this is 157" and has a 6.5' bed. I'm also thinking of lifting the TV I get 2-4", so that will make some changes as well. Oh boy...
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04-29-2014, 01:23 PM
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#38
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Beaver, PA
Posts: 911
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lifting it isn't advisable...all sorts of things change, and none of them for the better.
__________________
Chris, Wills (16) Evie (13) & Toby our collie (6)
2011 Grey Wolf 28BH
2013 Chevy K1500 Crew w/ Reese StraitLine Dual Cam
Nights camped 2011: 11 2012: 18 2013: 12 2014: 12 2015: 13 2016: 56 2017: 8+
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04-29-2014, 02:17 PM
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#39
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 3,249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thestrangebrew
I'm sure I'll be fine with this TV. It's what I'm looking for as far as truck and I can't seem to find any max tow pkgs anywhere that are within my budget. Just waiting for the wife to give the final ok and I'll pull the trigger.
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I ran into the same thing. No one wants to deal on Max Tow package trucks like they will non- MaxTow. You will likely have the IBC. Add tow mirrors and you've got what you need from the MaxTow anyway(except the sticker). Some will try to argue that the frame is different, axles are different and so on but I've yet to find any evidence of it. There is a slight difference in the hitch, but that has nothing to do with payload. Cooling systems are the same on the EB trucks as well. My truck with 20" wheels has the same springs- I think the 18" wheel trucks have a different spring code than the MaxTow versions. MaxTow IIRC has 3.73 gears- as long as you make sure you are getting at least the 3.55's you'll never know the difference with a 6 speed tranny. You'll also run across several people on the net that don't know the difference in the MaxTow and HD Payload packages. There are some differences in the axle, springs, wheels and tires on the HD Payload package.
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04-29-2014, 02:22 PM
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#40
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 383
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Well I had the dealer send me a pic of the yellow sticker on the Roo 19 and the dry weight is 3486 with cargo up to 1220. We're also looking at the Roo 231kss and he's going to send me the yellow sticker on that as well. This truck should be fine with either of these I'm thinking.
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