Confused about VA towing weights, dmv registration gross weight for my 3500 ram

[doc73]

Originally Posted by Chuck_S

Thanks. "Anything over (10,001 or more) begins the commercial truck regulations if using the truck for commercial use" explains why the F150 and F250 top out at 10,000 pounds. And why the Hot Shots all have F250s (and 10,000 pound trailers).

-- Chuck

The hot shots would be commercial with those trailer specs. They do it to avoid needing a cdl

[softail]

in pa I had to combination my 3500 ram to be able to hall my toy hauler off the lot so I do not know what that other guy from pa is talking about

[Iwannacamp]

Originally Posted by sdowney717

I am still not too sure about the value for gross on the title, because DMV in their PDF is saying they use the GCWR for gross, not the GVWR.
I also bet most people have screwed up Virginian registration especially if they can simply put any numbers they wish in there. But if the police catch them, I dont imagine the police letting them go free. Usually under the law, ignorance is no excuse.

I also expect they dont especially pull you over to check weights, but they would not have to be too smart to know about what things weigh, and if they think your overweight they will think you are cheating the state.

For example, my truck does weigh 8080lbs with 2 riders in the front seat, (c confirmed at dump scales today), and most RV trailers of mid 20 foot range are over 5000 lbs. 8000 plus 5000 is 13,000, so really anyone with common sense will know 12,200 is way to low on a registration, if they look, and I am sure when they ask you for it, they look. They are looking at everything.

I have never been to VA.

Are you sure you are making the right comparison? My Dodge is gross 9900 plus a 13,500 tow(I think) and that makes the 23,400 max rating. The RV road tax should cover the weight of the RV and the TV would have its tax.....just the way it “normally” is.

[doc73]

Originally Posted by softail

in pa I had to combination my 3500 ram to be able to hall my toy hauler off the lot so I do not know what that other guy from pa is talking about

No you did not have to, section does not apply to recreational trailers. Law changed a few years back to exempt campers. If you actually read the section I posted it says it right in it. Unless you did this many years ago.. But now being registered in combination is not required

[Oaklevel]

Originally Posted by Iwannacamp

I have never been to VA.

Are you sure you are making the right comparison? My Dodge is gross 9900 plus a 13,500 tow(I think) and that makes the 23,400 max rating. The RV road tax should cover the weight of the RV and the TV would have its tax.....just the way it “normally” is.

That is how it works in Virginia. In my case my truck has the same weights as yours but my trailer truck combo loaded plus a little cushion weighed just under 22K....... so 22K is what I registered it for. (I used the CAT scale weight fully loaded.)

If I never pulled a trailer the trucks gross weight capacity is what I would register it for.

[MtnGuy]

Originally Posted by sdowney717

I came to my ponderings after finding out i owe a larger tax amount because Virginia DMV gave us truck plates.

The tax is 4.15% regardless if you get a 1 ton truck or a Smart Car. It is based on the actual price paid to a dealer or individual. If buying from an individual, the DMV may require the buyer to get a bill of sale if the price looks too low.

Now the personal property taxes are a whole different ball game. If a vehicle list a title of under 10,000 lbs, then that qualifies the owner to the "Gilmore" tax relief discount. That is why some people will get a 3/4 toon truck with a derated GVWR of 9900 lbs (usually 10,000). And F350s can be derated to 10,000 lbs from their mid 11,000 weights.........for those states with a 10,001 lb cutoff for license purposes.

Personally I want a truck that has the highest GVWR per the manufacturer, just in case of an accident. The listed GVWR of the manufacturer can't be changed, regardless of air bags or any other additions to the truck.

Originally Posted by sdowney717

So looking at the title, they have empty weight, gross weight, GVWR, GCWR fields. Only the empty weight of 7370 and the gross weight of 12200 have any numbers there.

My VA truck title shows empty weight, gross weight, and GVWR. The GVWR and gross weight are the same (11,500 lbs), which was reflected on the certificate of origin as GVWR. It is my understanding that private vehicles do not have to show a GCWR.

If you are pulling a 5th wheel with a heavy pin weight sending the truck over 12,200 lbs, then you would be could be ticketed for being overweight.

You should have some leeway in the registration if you wanted to increase the GVWR.......with the resulting rise in fees. My previous F150 was titled as GVWR of 7200 lbs. The truck was registered as 7500 lbs, the maximum weight where you can still run passenger tires. That was just in case I was over the actual GVWR of the truck..............that did not relieve me of being over the truck GVWR, but did give me leeway so that I would not be ticketed for being overweight. That was a precaution as I was close but never got over (as far as I knew) of the titled GVWR.

Originally Posted by sdowney717

Looking at the definition of gross weight on va dmv, it says it is the combined weight or trailer and vehicle, BUT the dmv used the GVWR of 12200 on the door sticker for the gross weight. Yet truck can tow 21000 lbs as that is the GCWR for the truck. So it seems the title is in error?
I am VERY sure any rv trailer I haul will put the GCW over 12200lbs. So if the police pulled me over and weighed my rig, it would be way over perhaps 12200 lbs for the GCW.

BUT the state police website says they use gross weight as printed on the door sticker and for me that sticker says 12200.

There is a information conflict going on here.
Virginia State Police - Safety Division
For the purpose of this section, "truck" includes pickup and panel trucks, and "gross vehicle weight ratings" means manufacturer's gross vehicle weight ratings established for that vehicle as indicated by a number, plate, sticker, decal, or other device affixed to the vehicle by its manufacturer.

then the virginia dmv say this

https://www.dmv.virginia.gov/webdoc/pdf/vsa14i.pdf

I found this fact sheet.
Virginia says the gross weight is the GCWR!
They really screwed up everything in their definitions.
My title shows gross weight as 12,200 and it should then say 21,000 lbs, or whatever the GCWR actual is.

TRUCKS AND TRAILERS ONLY
• Empty Weight (EW) — means the empty weight of the vehicle.
• Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) — is assigned by the manufacturer. It is the total weight of the vehicle passengers, optional
components and cargo that the vehicle is designed to carry.
• Gross Weight (GW) and Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR)—indicate the combined maximum load weight (vehicle,
passengers, cargo and towed trailer) that the vehicle is designed to tow.

• Register tractor-trailer units for the maximum gross weight to be carried by the combination tractor and trailer. Fees for the tractor
are figured on the combined weights of both units. The trailer must be registered separately.

• Diesel Fuel Vehicles: If you maintain a storage tank for fueling vehicles contact Fuels Tax Division, P. O. Box 27422, Richmond,

so, what am i supposed to do? will the police fine me for towing overweight as my registration does not allow anything over 12200??

I believe the sections that you referencing concern commercial tractor trailers, or at least that is my interpretation. I haven't lost a moments sleep worrying about the discrepancies, and hope I don't tonite.

[sdowney717]

Originally Posted by MtnGuy

The tax is 4.15% regardless if you get a 1 ton truck or a Smart Car. It is based on the actual price paid to a dealer or individual. If buying from an individual, the DMV may require the buyer to get a bill of sale if the price looks too low.

Now the personal property taxes are a whole different ball game. If a vehicle list a title of under 10,000 lbs, then that qualifies the owner to the "Gilmore" tax relief discount. That is why some people will get a 3/4 toon truck with a derated GVWR of 9900 lbs (usually 10,000). And F350s can be derated to 10,000 lbs from their mid 11,000 weights.........for those states with a 10,001 lb cutoff for license purposes.

Personally I want a truck that has the highest GVWR per the manufacturer, just in case of an accident. The listed GVWR of the manufacturer can't be changed, regardless of air bags or any other additions to the truck.




My VA truck title shows empty weight, gross weight, and GVWR. The GVWR and gross weight are the same (11,500 lbs), which was reflected on the certificate of origin as GVWR. It is my understanding that private vehicles do not have to show a GCWR.

If you are pulling a 5th wheel with a heavy pin weight sending the truck over 12,200 lbs, then you would be could be ticketed for being overweight.

You should have some leeway in the registration if you wanted to increase the GVWR.......with the resulting rise in fees. My previous F150 was titled as GVWR of 7200 lbs. The truck was registered as 7500 lbs, the maximum weight where you can still run passenger tires. That was just in case I was over the actual GVWR of the truck..............that did not relieve me of being over the truck GVWR, but did give me leeway so that I would not be ticketed for being overweight. That was a precaution as I was close but never got over (as far as I knew) of the titled GVWR.



I believe the sections that you referencing concern commercial tractor trailers, or at least that is my interpretation. I haven't lost a moments sleep worrying about the discrepancies, and hope I don't tonite.

No where in VA dmv regs does it say travel trailers are exempt regardless of private or commercial use. So if your towing a heavy trailer and your truck registration is less than your gcw, your illegally towing it. That seems to be the truth.

[Oaklevel]

Originally Posted by sdowney717

No where in VA dmv regs does it say travel trailers are exempt regardless of private or commercial use. So if your towing a heavy trailer and your truck registration is less than your gcw, your illegally towing it. That seems to be the truth.

Correct according to DMV and State Police in Virginia the pickup truck has to have plates covering both the truck and trailer weight combined.

[Maggot]

From an outsider reading this threard my mind is boggling. Your politicans in VA put a ton on thought in your all's vehicle laws


Maggot