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Old 12-31-2018, 07:02 PM   #1
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Contradicting statements on towing and payload

After reading post about overweight trailers and undersized trucks . It seems to me that those who strictly abide by payload and tow standards. claiming that the manufacturers and engineers that set the payload and towing capacity do so based on rigid test to find the breaking point and safety Appear to be the first to say they would never tow a trailer they felt was to heavy for the half ton 3/4 or SWD. Even when well within the standards set by the same engineers.
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Old 12-31-2018, 07:07 PM   #2
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This should get good if it lasts.

But he may have a point....
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Old 12-31-2018, 07:19 PM   #3
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I don't look at payload or towing compacity as they are both numbers made up by the manufacture. I only numbers I concern myself with is the gross vehicle and the combined gross vehicle weight as those are the numbers I need to stay under to be legal in PA.
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Old 12-31-2018, 07:19 PM   #4
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Uhh, what exactly is the question, or problem here that is needing assistance?
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Old 12-31-2018, 07:31 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by wmtire View Post
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Uhh, what exactly is the question, or problem here that is needing assistance?
Lol. I was thinking the same thing after getting through the read. Looks more like a vent then concern.
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Old 12-31-2018, 07:46 PM   #6
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I found the OP's post difficult to understand but I think there are 2 distinct things here. First is truck specs and whether or not you should exceed them. The second is seat-of-pants feeling.

Some may feel uncomfortable even though they are within all their truck's specs. Others may feel completely comfortable even though they are exceeding one or more of your truck's specs.
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Old 12-31-2018, 09:28 PM   #7
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Some may feel uncomfortable even though they are within all their truck's specs. Others may feel completely comfortable even though they are exceeding one or more of your truck's specs.
This has been my thinking the whole time. I have logged thousands of miles on overweight trucks. Nothing outrageous like an F150 pulling 15,000 lbs. But an F350 SRW pulling 18,000 lbs. was one of our favorite set-ups. I felt comfortable the entire time and in all honesty, I know how to drive heavy trucks. If others don't feel comfortable or are fairly novice in towing, keep it low until you gain more confidence.
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Old 12-31-2018, 09:55 PM   #8
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That’s my opinion every time I towed with my half ton I was over payload . Even with my 350 SWD I was over payload and just under gvw but always felt like truck was set up fine no excessive sagging plenty of braking power and pulling power. However plenty of people would say I was being unsafe because I exceeded manufacturing numbers. Those same people question the same manufacturers number when they feel that the vehicles weight rating is too high. Technology has come a long way allowing smaller trucks to perform, handle and increase capacity just as safe if not safer than the bigger trucks just 4-5 years a.
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Old 12-31-2018, 11:08 PM   #9
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Everyone here knows that weight is a hot button issue on the forum. Bottom line is that we don’t all think the same. We all have differing experience, comfort levels and opinions. If someone has a differing opinion, don’t get upset and debate it. As the forum mods always say...(respectfully) give your opinion and move on.
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Old 01-01-2019, 07:22 AM   #10
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The educated understand why weight ratings are black/white, yes/no, and right/wrong. They’re based on facts such as FMVSS, vehicle class, and a manufactures own internal standards. Educate yourself and use the proper class vehicle for the task.
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Old 01-01-2019, 08:17 AM   #11
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While yes what the engineers say is black and white, the engineers do consider a safety margin......................but why would one (of us) want to test to the breaking point considering lives and or expensive equipment is on the line.



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Old 01-01-2019, 09:07 AM   #12
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call me chicken but weight concerns me very much, the manufacturer claims i can tow 9900 lbs hitch max 900lb with WDH, i would never tow a TT weighing that much. my TT weighs about half of that an i am comfortable towing that, and if i ever buy a larger TT well i will have to upgrade to a 3/4 ton. Safety to me is the most important thing about towing
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Old 01-01-2019, 09:29 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by moose074 View Post
That’s my opinion every time I towed with my half ton I was over payload . Even with my 350 SWD I was over payload and just under gvw but always felt like truck was set up fine no excessive sagging plenty of braking power and pulling power. However plenty of people would say I was being unsafe because I exceeded manufacturing numbers. Those same people question the same manufacturers number when they feel that the vehicles weight rating is too high. Technology has come a long way allowing smaller trucks to perform, handle and increase capacity just as safe if not safer than the bigger trucks just 4-5 years a.

I hope the Mods keep this alive, and I hope everyone is civil. It seems you are asking a valid question about a subject we ALL should be concerned with, and doing it without meanness.


Here's my take, or several takes.


First, you say you are within specs. That's great. The problem I see is that almost every question on this subject is because someone already owned a 1/2 ton truck, THEN bought the camper they wanted, THEN tried to justify pulling it because someone they know did it ok. Many times they are NOT like you, they ARE overweight. That's my concern. If you are not overweight or over specs, not one problem.....if that answers your question. But don't assume because you are ok, that every 1/2 ton is. 90% of them (I made that up from my own observation) are not. I was not when I did it.


Second, my new advice for all questions about towing is "Just pull it. Soon, you will know for sure what you need to do". I know what they SHOULD do. But they won't. I traded trucks before I got my 5th wheel based on advice here. I doubt anyone else ever did! LOL


Third, the "Weight Police" is a name sort of like "Grammar Police". It's a moniker of derision by those who are guilty!! If you complain about weight police, simply show the numbers that prove them wrong.


Lastly, anecdotal evidence of how many miles an overweight setup has towed is sort of meaningless. It's not THOSE miles that worry anyone. It's the next ones.
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Old 01-01-2019, 09:52 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moose074 View Post
That’s my opinion every time I towed with my half ton I was over payload . Even with my 350 SWD I was over payload and just under gvw but always felt like truck was set up fine no excessive sagging plenty of braking power and pulling power. However plenty of people would say I was being unsafe because I exceeded manufacturing numbers. Those same people question the same manufacturers number when they feel that the vehicles weight rating is too high. Technology has come a long way allowing smaller trucks to perform, handle and increase capacity just as safe if not safer than the bigger trucks just 4-5 years a.
I agree with your point. GVWR weights on many of these trucks are lower because of legal issues regarding the registration. Are the trucks capable of higher weights - YES!!! In PA the weight classes are nothing more then a way for the state to make more money from those using their trucks for personal use.
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Old 01-01-2019, 09:57 AM   #15
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Yeah the way to keep a post civil is to respect each other’s views. More speech is better than less, so if your argument is correct it will win the day. So I would like to see this thread keep going and hopefully no one takes an absolute view but answers questions, asks questions and all of us promote understanding.
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Old 01-01-2019, 10:18 AM   #16
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So I have a list and I’d like to have you all help me. One thing I noticed after I traded my Ram Ecodiesel for a Ram 3500 was that I couldn’t drive this stud of a truck the way I did my Eco. After I pounded my brake on an fast stop the morning of the opening of deer season, I came up with the start of this list because I realize I need to drive the same way in this truck with or without the fiver attached. If I don’t practice like I’m hooked up, it won’t work when I am.

So here it is:

1. Slow down. No more than 65 mph.
2. Increase the distance between me and the vehicle in front of me. I’ve been using at least 10 car lengths.
3. Be patient.
4. Both hands on the wheel.
5. No rubber necking
6. Turn your phone off.
7. Have next stop planned ahead after first stop
8. Have a good working TPMS system.
9. Be a defensive driver.
10. Figure out how to get all the info I need to drive but not be distracted by the data, I will have the tpms monitor, RVND GPS, and rear fiver camera all mounted somewhere where I can see it but hopefully it’s useful not distractive.

Alright help me out! This should not lead to contradicting statements!
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Old 01-01-2019, 10:20 AM   #17
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Wouldn't all those be 'rules' for ANY vehicle you drive?
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Old 01-01-2019, 11:23 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Dustyhd View Post
The educated understand why weight ratings are black/white, yes/no, and right/wrong. They’re based on facts such as FMVSS, vehicle class, and a manufactures own internal standards. Educate yourself and use the proper class vehicle for the task.
Totally agree.
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Old 01-01-2019, 12:20 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by moose074 View Post
After reading post about overweight trailers and undersized trucks . It seems to me that those who strictly abide by payload and tow standards. claiming that the manufacturers and engineers that set the payload and towing capacity do so based on rigid test to find the breaking point and safety Appear to be the first to say they would never tow a trailer they felt was to heavy for the half ton 3/4 or SWD. Even when well within the standards set by the same engineers.

Not sure if they test for a "breaking point". I am of the same opinion you seem concerned about. I would never exceed manufacturers limits. At the same time I also would not tow a setup that I didn't feel comfortable with regardless of weight ratings or limits.
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Old 01-01-2019, 12:40 PM   #20
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One point I've always tried to make is based on the end result. Yes, towing with some numbers exceeding the manufacturer's numbers could be considered dangerous. But are there really any numbers reflecting a horrible result? Go to any campground and you'll find more than your fair share of 1/2 tons pulling huge TTs, 3/4 tons pulling 43' triple-axle toy haulers, etc.

But considering the numbers of those exceeding the limits, its still an extremely rare occurrence that we see a crash of an RV and even then, its rarely a case of excessive weights.

I know some will say "just because others have done it doesn't mean you should". This is true. But we all still jaywalk. We know its far more dangerous than crossing at a crosswalk but its been done so many times without a problem that we go ahead and accept the risk.
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