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Old 08-03-2014, 01:50 PM   #41
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So if it had a Mercedes badge in the hood it would reasonable priced? I think it's because premium vehicle companies have an excellent ad campaign. We are under the impression those prices are justified because it us a premium automobile when in reality, the prices are set because of demand.

Every car company has it's flagship, and as long as the sales keep rising, they will make higher-end models and more options for current ones. And as long as consumers keep buying, prices will always keep rising. Capitalism at its finest.

Everyone that is employed works for a company that will charge as much for their product as the market will endure. Just saying...


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Old 08-03-2014, 02:05 PM   #42
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I think a lot of people on here have a hard time justifying a $50k+ truck while they may have a E class Benz parked in their garage of their $500k home. Or maybe they go on a 2 week $10k European vacation every year. Hey, I only go to Europe every other year, and I don't spend half of $10K. I have a Jaguar and a Lexus in my garage and two houses, and I still cannot justify a $50K truck.

Everyone has a reason to justify everything they bought but can't imagine why someone else can spend $$$ on something they enjoy.

Things I can't believe people spend money on: little cars that if you got in a wreck you would be DOA, getting a $50 haircut, having someone clean your gutters, etc. Last time got cheap and cleaned my gutters, I fell off the ladder and broke both legs. And my back will never be the same either.

It's all relative. I agree about relativity. Being frugal is a way of life for my family, however.


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Old 08-03-2014, 03:11 PM   #43
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So if it had a Mercedes badge in the hood it would reasonable priced?

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absolutely not....I was just making a joke how the 60k+ msrp would be a little more warm and fuzzy feeling if it said Mercedes on the hood. (we actually own a couple them german luxury things and I like my fords just fine!)...if Mercedes or bmw made a heavy duty truck I cannot say I would not consider the option tho?

the reality is that with all the epa mandates , increased technology, and safety demands new vehicles are and will continue to be more expensive than those 10 or even 5 years older.

I understand and appreciate that I can own a 400+ hp 800+tq towing beast with all the same features for the most part as a luxury car that is quiet, gets decent fuel mileage, doesn't stink, and doesn't smoke....I paid a premium for those things....

my father in law bought the same truck, without all the "junk" as he called it....in his opinion he got a great deal....(we actually paid almost the same, but he is happy so that's all that matters)..
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Old 08-03-2014, 03:47 PM   #44
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On average (at least in my area) new car dealers take a $600 loss on an Internet sale just to make the deal.




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Old 08-03-2014, 04:53 PM   #45
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On average (at least in my area) new car dealers take a $600 loss on an Internet sale just to make the deal.




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ya know, its a shady thing...... there is a lot more involved than just the dealer (invoice) like holdbacks, volume bonuses, fees, etc...

anymore with the internet, pricing has become substantially more competitive, and the "wholesale managers" of large facilities know this.

its not just car dealers either, when I started business 15yrs ago we never had to "price match with shipping" or have meetings on which items we would make our "loss leaders"...never in a million years would I have thought that I would have to invest 25k to LOSE money on it, only to drive sales in other areas or to qualify for volume discounts on other lines with better margin....there is method and money (profit) in the madness, or we wouldn't do it or we wouldent be in business long!!

at the end of the year I (generally)don't look to see which customers spent where or got what deals...bottom line is profitability across the board as a whole...of course exceptional customers tend to stand out....

just goes to show that some people are getting GREAT deals.....but for all those who do, someone else is paying the premium or not buying where the VALUE is.....pick your side..LOL
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Old 08-03-2014, 04:54 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by 97Powerstroke View Post
So if it had a Mercedes badge in the hood it would reasonable priced? I think it's because premium vehicle companies have an excellent ad campaign. We are under the impression those prices are justified because it us a premium automobile when in reality, the prices are set because of demand.

Every car company has it's flagship, and as long as the sales keep rising, they will make higher-end models and more options for current ones. And as long as consumers keep buying, prices will always keep rising. Capitalism at its finest.

Everyone that is employed works for a company that will charge as much for their product as the market will endure. Just saying...


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Well said. I totally agree that is the way it is. I just do not like it.

I feel like the oddball fish in all this because I will not buy it, but if everyone else is buying it and causing the price to rise then I really have little choice. I like the KISS theory. And the more bells and whistles they put in a car the more crap can just break. I must be getting too old. All these kids want Bluetooth, satellite radio, GPS, on-star, back up cameras, anti collision, anti roll over, self parking, TV monitors through out, etc. I really do not want this stuff. But like you said, everyone else does and the makers will produce what people want. So I go looking for a car and it will have all this stuff in it because someone else wanted it. To me it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Boy do I sound grumpy.

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Old 08-03-2014, 05:20 PM   #47
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Well said. I totally agree that is the way it is. I just do not like it.

I feel like the oddball fish in all this because I will not buy it, but if everyone else is buying it and causing the price to rise then I really have little choice. I like the KISS theory. And the more bells and whistles they put in a car the more crap can just break. I must be getting too old. All these kids want Bluetooth, satellite radio, GPS, on-star, back up cameras, anti collision, anti roll over, self parking, TV monitors through out, etc. I really do not want this stuff. But like you said, everyone else does and the makers will produce what people want. So I go looking for a car and it will have all this stuff in it because someone else wanted it. To me it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Boy do I sound grumpy.

Vin.
hey, you like what you like, and there is nothing wrong with that....

my fil and I have this argument/discussion all the time.. he does not want, nor need all the "junk" as he likes to put it...

you can walk into any dealership and have them order you a truck/car just the way you want (minus the most basic stuff) or around here the "work truck" packages are a dime a dozen....

your not the only one who doesn't want/need to pay for items perceived as non necessary luxuries...you may hafta look a lil bit harder or have em find you one, but the are and always will be out there..

as I said before, sometimes, given the rebates/incentives its a way better deal to get the junk even if you don't use it....(ie if for is doing 4000 discount on xlt AND a 1500 discount on an electronics grouping that is pretty much standard equip)

it is more crap to break tho....I kinda like the simplicity of the old 350 chevy with a distributor and a points system like I learned to wrench on back in the day..i still have one, but its like comparing a canoe to the titanic.....oh wait....it was new and great and it SANK! LOL...
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Old 08-03-2014, 05:34 PM   #48
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Made a decision on the last one I bought to keep for ever if not a lemon or something happen that destroyed it because of cost to buy another new one so far had almost 14 years and going strong. Will fix or rebuild as needed at this point cheaper than getting a new one. Preventative maintenance, Preventative maintenance, Preventative maintinance....
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Old 08-03-2014, 05:50 PM   #49
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On average (at least in my area) new car dealers take a $600 loss on an Internet sale just to make the deal.
Don't believe it. The factory invoice may be padded for 2-3% dealer holdbacks, regional advertising funds and a floorplan account equal to 45 days of wholesale interest. That's a bunch of $.

And sales regions often have secret incentives that go up and down according to how well a certain vehicle is selling. If inventories are up on a Honda Pilot and they're on Wednesday at the end of June, the region may throw a bounty on all Pilots sold. And this can be a substantial amount.

Don't forget that ripoff of all charges--Documentary Fees. When I was looking at SUV's recently, the dealers online were quoting prices, etc. and a doc fee was added that's straight profit--$499-699.

I don't think this ole country boy's going to fall for that.

And don't think that any dealer's going to consistently lose $600 on any vehicle sold online. If that's the case, they'd close down their internet sales department.

New car dealers are sly, like a fox, and the odds are stacked that retail customers are not going to beat them at their own game.
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Old 08-03-2014, 06:16 PM   #50
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Don't believe it. The factory invoice may be padded for 2-3% dealer holdbacks, regional advertising funds and a floorplan account equal to 45 days of wholesale interest. That's a bunch of $.

And sales regions often have secret incentives that go up and down according to how well a certain vehicle is selling. If inventories are up on a Honda Pilot and they're on Wednesday at the end of June, the region may throw a bounty on all Pilots sold. And this can be a substantial amount.

Don't forget that ripoff of all charges--Documentary Fees. When I was looking at SUV's recently, the dealers online were quoting prices, etc. and a doc fee was added that's straight profit--$499-699.

I don't think this ole country boy's going to fall for that.

And don't think that any dealer's going to consistently lose $600 on any vehicle sold online. If that's the case, they'd close down their internet sales department.

New car dealers are sly, like a fox, and the odds are stacked that retail customers are not going to beat them at their own game.
and to top it off the reg ol sales guy has NO CLUE as to the dealers true cost in new vehicle inventory...they are only told what the need to know to be motivated to WORK....sure they can pull you "dealer invoice" and tell you of available "incentives"...but even the true dirty numbers elude the sales managers usually...its an business machine for sure!

I never go in with the intent to beat the dealer at their own game.....you cant beat them, but you CAN come to a number you BOTH don't like...LOL
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