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Old 08-03-2014, 06:30 PM   #51
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You hit it on the nail. The 40% of gross profit sales commission is not paid on the documentary fee and all of the under the table incentives and pad on the invoice.

The salesman is a victim in a manner of speaking. He doesn't know what a vehicle actually costs.

There are very few dealerships that I would want to be a career car salesman in at this day and time. And the standards for sales professionals has dropped dramatically since I went into the car business in 1972.
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Old 08-04-2014, 08:33 AM   #52
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I 'get ya' but get used to it. I doubt you can buy a car/truck without ps/pb/pw/pl. Power seats are common as well.

Backup cameras will be in ALL vehicles in 2 years (federal mandate, like rear window defoggers were 20 years ago). TPS is mandatory in most everything now too.

My 14 subaru and 13 silverado both have backup cameras, bluetooth, satellite radio and I love it.
I wanted the 'eyesight' auto braking on the subaru but it was another $5k (needed the next model up plus the option). My kids will be driving in 3 years and when I go to sell this car in 10 years that will be a common feature leaving my car 'technologically behind' by then.

What I like is the truck and car are easy to drive - I had a chrysler minivan rental and took it back for ANYTHING else - I couldn't operate half the stuff without reading the manual first. IMO that's not safe.

I wish my car had auto temp air like the truck though. And heated seats rock (up here where winter is real)
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Originally Posted by vinmaker View Post
Well said. I totally agree that is the way it is. I just do not like it.

I feel like the oddball fish in all this because I will not buy it, but if everyone else is buying it and causing the price to rise then I really have little choice. I like the KISS theory. And the more bells and whistles they put in a car the more crap can just break. I must be getting too old. All these kids want Bluetooth, satellite radio, GPS, on-star, back up cameras, anti collision, anti roll over, self parking, TV monitors through out, etc. I really do not want this stuff. But like you said, everyone else does and the makers will produce what people want. So I go looking for a car and it will have all this stuff in it because someone else wanted it. To me it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Boy do I sound grumpy.

Vin.
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Old 08-04-2014, 10:03 AM   #53
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Well said. I totally agree that is the way it is. I just do not like it.

I feel like the oddball fish in all this because I will not buy it, but if everyone else is buying it and causing the price to rise then I really have little choice. I like the KISS theory. And the more bells and whistles they put in a car the more crap can just break. I must be getting too old. All these kids want Bluetooth, satellite radio, GPS, on-star, back up cameras, anti collision, anti roll over, self parking, TV monitors through out, etc. I really do not want this stuff. But like you said, everyone else does and the makers will produce what people want. So I go looking for a car and it will have all this stuff in it because someone else wanted it. To me it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Boy do I sound grumpy.

Vin.
I used to think like you, first brand new truck I bought was a Chevrolet Scottsdale. 5.7L, 5 speed manual, cloth bench seat, rubber floors (no carpet), no A/C, no PL or PW. It did have delay wipers, no cruise control. Great truck, trouble was when Time came to sell it, no one wanted it. Dealer friend of mine said something I never forgot "One bought right, is half sold!"

In other words, you may not find those features value added, but when the time comes to sell it, it is a different story.

Having said all that, my current truck has 300,000 miles on it and I have no plans to sell it.
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Old 08-04-2014, 10:21 AM   #54
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Yep, you have to think of a couple things and initial price isn't in the top two. A better equipped vehicle is easier to sell and worth more in the end. And a better equipped vehicle is 'easier' to live with -power windows, cruise, etc are things you prolly use every day.
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Old 08-04-2014, 10:51 AM   #55
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Resale value doesn't matter to someone like me. By the time I replace a vehicle it is worth less than $1000.

Vehicles having more than the buyer wants isn't new. I've gone through this every time I bought a new vehicle. In the early 90's trying to get a 4x4 SUV off the lot with manual hubs, vinyl seats and floors, etc was impossible in my area. The dealers didn't grasp why I didn't want power every thing with nice cloth seats and floor carpeting. They tried telling me with manual hubs I would get wet if I got stuck and needed four wheel drive. No matter how much I explained that you didn't wait until you were 20 miles into the national forest to set four wheel and vinyl can be hosed out after getting unstuck they insisted I needed all the extra's. I finally gave up and used my companies fleet sales to order what I wanted. I probably didn't get as good of a deal as I could have buying off the lot but it was the only way to get what I wanted.

Generally the dealers order what they think the majority of walk ins will buy. They might keep a couple of basic models to use as sales teasers or to keep someone from walking out but that is not where their money is made. You will also find many of the options are pushed by the factory so they too can maximize their return. The way I look at unwanted options today is as bargaining chips. I make it clear I really don't care that it has that and if I can get a better deal at another dealer or brand that doesn't have the options I will take it. Usually the dealer tends to find more wiggle room on the price after this.
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Old 08-04-2014, 01:15 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Bamaman View Post
What does Clark Howard know about tow trucks? He used to drive a Honda Insight hybrid.

On weekends, he's at Goodwill trying to find good recycled clothes.

On weekends, I'm at my camper up in the North Georgia mountains communing with nature.

Modern diesel tow trucks are very expensive. But with a lifespan of 400,000 miles, they are actually a good buy in long term transportation. You do have to get over the mentality that you've got to trade every 3 years, however.


I'll try to leave your obvious dislike and unnecessary derogatory comments towards the guy alone...I'm not even sure it was him where I heard the conversation (remember my question mark next to his name?), but you certainly don't need to own a modern diesel truck to understand what they cost. I personally agree (with whoever it was) that the market can not continue to support the prices increasing at the rate they have been.

Your comment "But with a lifespan of 400,000 miles" however, is kool-aid I don't drink. It doesn't matter which flavor of truck you choose these days...they all have their common failures. I'm not trying to say I think they're junk, I'm just saying that on average, they dont last any longer than any Toyota, Honda, etc. (which also have their own common failures).

In my opinion, anybody with the mentality that a new car every 3 years is required has little to no concern over the cost of owning said vehicles anyway.
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Old 08-04-2014, 01:57 PM   #57
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When I bought my 2013 Ford F150 stx, the dealer tried to talk me into a 4x4 lariat. About $20,000 more. My STX will take me anywhere I want to go and left me more money for the new RV. We walked out of the dealership because we were $2,600 apart on the deal. They called two hours later and matched my offer. Makes me wonder how many take that offer on the table like the guy in the ripped pants Toyota commercial.
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Old 08-04-2014, 02:13 PM   #58
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When I bought my 2013 Ford F150 stx, the dealer tried to talk me into a 4x4 lariat. About $20,000 more. My STX will take me anywhere I want to go and left me more money for the new RV. We walked out of the dealership because we were $2,600 apart on the deal. They called two hours later and matched my offer. Makes me wonder how many take that offer on the table like the guy in the ripped pants Toyota commercial.
Even after we agree on a price I tell the salesman I want to think on it overnight and will be back tomorrow to finalize the deal. Sometimes it's helped get a bit more off other times we return the next day for the same price. To me being patient and making sure the dealer realizes I don't care that I buy that specific vehicle has always worked well on getting a price I can live with.
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Old 08-04-2014, 02:20 PM   #59
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Made a decision on the last one I bought to keep for ever if not a lemon or something happen that destroyed it because of cost to buy another new one so far had almost 14 years and going strong. Will fix or rebuild as needed at this point cheaper than getting a new one. Preventative maintenance, Preventative maintenance, Preventative maintinance....
I hear ya... my "old" 2001 still does everything i need on it and when something breaks, it gets fixed and when maintenance comes up, I take care of it. When it was new, it was loaded and had all the bells and whistles, but nothing compared to today.

As for the toys/junk, I have Nav and Bluetooth and a back up camera. the factory CD player (unnecessary junk in 2001 by some peoples terms) quit, so I upgraded with a new in-dash nav with BT and BU cam and new speakers and an amp all for far less than 2 payments on a new truck.

The Alternator went out a few weeks ago on a trip... had it towed (I have road side assistance since I have an older vehicle) and a new alt installed.. $300. A new Transmission a few years back.. $4000 for a Ford HD rebuild (not the standard rebuild) with 3 year unlimited mile warranty.. this one stung a bit, but still, that's been the only big repair.
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Old 08-04-2014, 11:38 PM   #60
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At 62... I'm hoping I never buy another vehicle... With that thought, I bought what I wanted this time. It was more expensive than I hoped it would be. My last company vehicle has 350K miles on it and is still being driven... and has had very few problems. When I last heard about it (last week) it still has the original hoses and water pump. It was an '02 F-150 7700 Supercab 4X4. It was driven many miles down railroad right of ways, up to mountain-top radio sites, etc.

They will last when they are maintained... I hope to get at least 300K outa my new one.
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