Did I just make a huge mistake?

[Dr. Doofenshmirtz]

So, the wife and I have been looking into pop-ups for a few years now and finally decided on one and made the purchase over the weekend. (Haven't picked it up yet)

While researching we took into account we would be able to tow with her 2011 Subaru Outback - According to the documentation, 2700 lbs trailer weight.

With this in mind, we went with the Rockwood 1910 with the following specs:
Ship Weight: 1944 lbs
Hitch Weight: 245 lbs

The Outback has a GVWR of 4585 and a curb weight of 3495. So, factoring in the weight of the family at the current time (approx 500lbs) and the hitch weight that still leaves 345 lbs of misc. cargo.

(Again, first time pop-up owner so if I'm doing these calculations wrong please correct me)

Anyway. I'm browsing some other forums and came across a thread where someone mentioned that Subaru does a little trick where the maximum hitch weight does not fit their window of trailer weight percentage... so I checked it out myself (yes I violated the first rule of this section of the forum by not reading it cover to cover first)

According to the manual hitch load should be 8-11% of the trailer weight... the 1910 is a bit heavy as 11% would be 214 pounds. However, the problem is there's a maximum hitch weight of 200 lbs.

So, my question is the title of this thread... Did I just make a huge mistake?

Follow up question... if maximum trailer weight for the Outback is 2700 lbs and they state 8-11% of the trailer weight be on the hitch... but that can only be 200 lbs, isn't that some crazy math?

[youroo]

We seem to use (10-15%) here you are a (Little Light)? Youroo!!That is for T/W!

[Taranwanderer]

Just my opinion, but even if you are within your weight specs, you don't have enough vehicle for towing what you want to tow. Can you do it? Probably, yes. Should you do it? Probably not. All Subarus are AWD, all the time, and that's a lot of extra stress on your drivetrain, not to mention the fact that you have a unibody vehicle without a real "frame." Then you start packing gear into the pop-up, and suddenly that 1944 pounds becomes well north of 2000 pounds.

Call me old fashioned, but I'm not a big fan of towing anything with an AWD or FWD transmission/driveline. People do it all the time, and then wonder why they're having transmission issues a year later.

You'd be better off with a small pickup for what you're doing--a Tacoma, Durango, Ranger, S10, Frontier, etc. You can get those farily cheap used, and not ruin her Sub.

Good luck!

[ChooChooMan74]

My old way of thinking would be to hitch up and go. Check a Subaru Outback forum and see how people are making out there towing.

[BigBaron]

Maybe... It'll be a wild ride, but doable if you are careful.

[Witch Doctor]

Is your ball located on the bumper? If so that is where you will see that written. That's because of the location and cheap bumpers. What you could do is add a receiver welded to your frame. I U-Haul dealer can do that. Post #4 is also a good idea.

[ChooChooMan74]

Also, on eTrailer.com, there are hitches with higher ratings.

http://www.etrailer.com/hitch-2011_S...back+Wagon.htm

Again, I would see how others are making out on a Subaru forum.

[Dr. Doofenshmirtz]

So wait... Is the hitch/tongue weight rating based just on the hitch itself? I have an aftermarket (UHaul) hitch on it with a rating of 600 lbs.

[Dr. Doofenshmirtz]

Picture attached.

[Herk7769]

The hitch rating is just the hitch.

You can weld a 12,000 pound rated hitch to your Subaru and it won't change a thing.

IMO, use the Subaru to tow the new camper home (empty) and go shopping for something a bit more robust to take it camping.

You will find out pretty darn quick whether you want to try it loaded on the drive home.

[TURBS]

Id be super curious of the Subaru ccc "cargo carrying capacity number.
Located on the tire loading info sticker on the door jamb.

"sabre owners united!"


turbs

[TURBS]

Std payload is around a thousand lbs.
Subtract the weight of all passengers excluding the driver.
Then subtract the tounge weight.
Then subtract and cargo hauled in the Subaru

"sabre owners united!"


turbs

[Witch Doctor]

Originally Posted by Dr. Doofenshmirtz

So wait... Is the hitch/tongue weight rating based just on the hitch itself? I have an aftermarket (UHaul) hitch on it with a rating of 600 lbs.

You still have to make sure your vehicle is rated for the total weight also that you are going to hook to that hitch. You should find that out in your vehicle spec.....

[ChooChooMan74]

I was just on a Subaru Outback Forum reading up on Tongue Weight. It sounds just like our forum. Some say ok to be a little over, other say no way. Then you get the internet lawyer who says that if there is an accident, insurance will deny coverage. I don't know what to say dude.

[Dr. Doofenshmirtz]

Well, this has turned into a stressful few days.
I think the bottom line is I need to convince my wife that the only vehicle capable of hauling it is a 2015 Audi Q7.

Wish me luck!

But seriously, thanks to everyone for the feedback. We will be looking at a different vehicle.

[jevanb]

Just go buy a 5er and a truck to pull it. Might as well get it over now, then later. Everyone of our friends including me start out small but in a few years we are in a 5er. That way you don't lose too much money up grading everytime

[pgandw]

Originally Posted by Herk7769

The hitch rating is just the hitch.

You can weld a 12,000 pound rated hitch to your Subaru and it won't change a thing.

IMO, use the Subaru to tow the new camper home (empty) and go shopping for something a bit more robust to take it camping.

You will find out pretty darn quick whether you want to try it loaded on the drive home.

Looked up the 1910. Max weight (fully loaded) for the trailer is 2976 lbs. You will be guaranteed to be heavier than the shipping weight of the PUP because batteries, propane tanks, water, any dealer installed options (such as air conditioning and water heater), and any gear or supplies you pack in the trailer will add to that shipping weight. My best guess is that ready to leave on a trip, the 1910 will weigh in at 2500+ lbs, putting you pretty close to or over all your Outback limits.

The front storage compartment, batteries, and propane are all going to increase your tongue weight from the as-shipped value. Looking at the floor plan, almost all of your storage is forward of the axle, which will further add to your tongue weight (anything forward fo the axle adds something to the tongue).

Can you manage this with the Outback? Probably - it's close enough, but you are into your design margins. To manage things long term, I would ensure the following:

- sufficient transmission cooling
- a (sub)frame-mounted hitch
- weight distributing setup (moves some of the tongue weight to the front wheels).

I just bought a Rockwood A122 that is almost identical in weight and capacity. My tow vehicle is a 2008 Hyundai Entourage (minivan). Tow rating is 3500 lbs, so I have a little more margin than you do. European tow rating of the same vehicle is at least 4400lbs, so Hyundai/Kia believe the unibody is strong enough for bigger loads than I'm towing. I did need the WDH to make both vehicle and camper tow right and feel safe to my DW.

I have not gotten actual weights, but the feel is pretty good - far better than my old Ford Explorer with a 3000lb PUP and no WDH. Since you have already bought it, as the quote says, tow it home and see what you think. I did a test drive around the dealer parking lot and knew the minivan suspension was too soft for that tongue weight without a WDH. We had the WDH (Equalizer 600/6000) installed in a couple of hours before I left for home.

The Entourage came stock with a hefty separate transmission cooler, so I didn't need to add one (the add-on would have been half the size of the stock).

just my thoughts and experiences, yours may differ
Fred W
camped 3 weekends so far this year

[pgandw]

Originally Posted by jevanb

Just go buy a 5er and a truck to pull it. Might as well get it over now, then later. Everyone of our friends including me start out small but in a few years we are in a 5er. That way you don't lose too much money up grading everytime

I guess I'm the exception, both with boats and campers. I observed with boats that the bigger the boat, generally the less it got used and the more time it spent tied up at the dock.

I started with a 22ft sailboat (living in Miami, FL area). Decided I needed something bigger and heavier to sail to the Bahamas, so I got a 25ft and went. The 25ft needed a bigger tow vehicle, so bought a 3/4 ton Suburban (4WD). That was a good combination until the ex sold the Suburban out from under me. Then the boat was useless. Went back to a 125lb boat that could be pulled behind any vehicle and usually beach launched it. Used it nearly every day when camping by a lake.

First camper was a 12ft box PUP towed by Ford Explorer. Learned that big and heavy a PUP was a little too big to manuver into some remote campsites. And the only thing we did inside the camper was sleep and sit out any rain. Cooking and socializing were always done outside at the table. Now have a Rockwood A122 towed by Hyundai Entourage (minivan). Did not get the front storage so camper would fit in garage, kept ready to go on a moment's notice. Simply throw food in a cooler, and clothes, cooler in the minivan and go.

Ideal tow vehicle would be a 6 cylinder SUV, so we could comfortably go down some dirt trails for real boon docking, but the DW prefers flush toilets anyway.

Now the camper really doesn't have room for both of us to be standing at the same time (unless we are hugging or slow dancing). But there's room for us (+dog) to sleep in comfort, and a dinette to sit at when it rains.

Awnings are more headache than value in Colorado winds, so we simply have an ez-up (well-staked) if the picnic table is not shaded.

Setup is incredibly fast and simple - we have fallen in love with camping again by keeping it small and simple.

Fred W

[keith_h]

We owned an Outback until it was bought back by Subaru. We replaced it with a CX5 that has slightly more towing capacity. We considered towing with both vehicles but decided it was better to keep our Explorer as a tow vehicle.

Given the towing capacities of both the Outback and CX-5 we figured about all we could tow safely was a teardrop type of trailer. Most of the ones we looked at ranged from 900-1200 lbs dry weight with tongues weight between 90-115 lbs. As we were moving from tent camping this really didn't seem to be that much different. It also left us few alternatives if we didn't like the teardrop for any reason. I also have qualms about the wear and tear on 4 cylinder engines. My feeling is the extra load and higher RPM's of long distance towing will shorten the life of the engine. The Explorer on the other hand has enough capacity and just as importantly length to allow us to consider a larger variety of trailers. It will handle most PUP's on the market and more important to us it opened up the smaller ultra-lite box style trailers. While most of the 5th wheelers here will likely be claustrophobic in our little TT having the option gave us something much roomier than our old two person tent. The larger vehicle also allows us some slack as far as weight and loading goes and where we are driving (i.e. flat at sea level or up and down in the mountains).

So I'm with the others in trying to find a larger TV then you don't have to worry about having enough vehicle for the load.

[Sponge1971]

I agree with a nice big tranny cooler (engine oil cooler isn't a bad idea either) and absolutley a WD hitch system. (being able to steer is always nice...and you might as well make them fronts pull thier share of the load too)

I also suggest you throw a phone call out to " Can-Am RV ", up here in London, Ontario.
I won't link them here, in-case that's a no-no...Just Google them. Read the website, watch the crazy videos of unconventional tow vehicle/trailer combos, speak to them (keep in mind their 40+ years of experience in this)... Then decide for yourself, if you're willing to 'work' your Subarau for 10% of all your year's driving vs. getting another/second vehicle specifically for towing...not neccessarily considering it's other 90% of the year use.

I just got my mini-van bumper reciever reinforced by them and I am very happy I did. There's no doubt I'm running at 110% of my van's rated capacties...but, lots of other's +years testimony and my own short 'seat-of-pants' feelings tells me that I'll be ok...

Our cars, these days, ain't the junk of yesteryear...and, I feel, especially not your Subaru (I've always wanted a Baja). I say you'll be ok too!

oh yeah...and don't try and drive like you normally do...when you're all pinned up.