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Old 04-29-2014, 08:59 PM   #31
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I got my solus ultra in my car, I might go out and read my fuel pressure in my dmax in a few

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Old 04-29-2014, 09:11 PM   #32
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A Duramax idling at 21,000PSI actually sounds awesome, like it's got the nastiest racing camshaft you can find.

It's a test, used to establish the integrity of the high pressure side of the system. Any leak at all and it won't achieve it, especially useful when GM required us to figure out which LB7 injector split internally, they'd start spewing at 14,000 or so and would go no higher.

I can assure you, diesel through those micro holes at 6,000+ is a fog. Worked on many that idled all day on job sites, no oil contamination to be found.
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Old 04-29-2014, 09:30 PM   #33
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As promised- desired FRP (PSI) 5176
at idle was around 49xx-52xx
-and screaming at about 2100-2200rpm was at 12,000 ish

EditHighest I can turn the fuel pressure up too on my scanner is a little over 23,000, but im not doing it on my truck. Will on somebody elses if they want me too)
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Old 04-29-2014, 11:24 PM   #34
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This does not explain why it is necessary to shut down the engine. Yes gas vapors are highly explosive, but you still have to have an IGNITOR!! Where is the ignitor when the engine is running?? static electricity is the leading cause of gas tank fill fires, but I guarantee you there is not more static electricity in a running car than there is in one that's shut off. The static comes from the human getting in & out of their vehicle. You have failed to disprove my point that leaving your gas engine running during refueling is no more dangerous than fueling while it's off. In my 25+ years of fueling my vehicles, I rarely turn off my engine, & I have never had anything happen. I also make sure I touch the side of my vehicle before I go back to the fuel door to discharge any static electricity. (which has no difference running or not).
A spark is not the the only thing that can trigger a gasoline vapor fire. The autoignition point of gasoline vapor is 495 degrees Fahrenheit. This means that when vapors come into contact with ANYTHING that is at or above that temperature, the vapors WILL ignite. An example of something that is greater than 495 degrees would be exhaust gases. Why must we shut off our vehicles? Not because YOUR exhaust gases might ignite gas vapors (tail pipes, when not straight out the back, typically exit on the side of the vehicle opposite the tank fill), but because your pump neighbor's continual exhaust gases could. While quite unlikely, shutting down your engine reduces exhaust gases near gas vapors. It's not about prevention, it's about keeping chances low. Anything can happen at any time. Cell phones have been found to be extremely unlikely to ever be able to cause the conditions which would ignite vapors, yet gas stations still ask us not to use them. This is the CYA factor. One fire can kill everyone at the station. While I, like you, have spent even more time filling gasoline tanks, vehicles, and numerous other items, and never had a problem, there's a very good reason why small engines always say to wait for the engine to cool before filling the tank. Gasoline vapors can ignite from the heat of a muffler or catalytic converter. It doesn't require a spark.
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Old 04-30-2014, 12:29 AM   #35
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A spark is not the the only thing that can trigger a gasoline vapor fire. The autoignition point of gasoline vapor is 495 degrees Fahrenheit. This means that when vapors come into contact with ANYTHING that is at or above that temperature, the vapors WILL ignite. An example of something that is greater than 495 degrees would be exhaust gases. Why must we shut off our vehicles? Not because YOUR exhaust gases might ignite gas vapors (tail pipes, when not straight out the back, typically exit on the side of the vehicle opposite the tank fill), but because your pump neighbor's continual exhaust gases could. While quite unlikely, shutting down your engine reduces exhaust gases near gas vapors. It's not about prevention, it's about keeping chances low. Anything can happen at any time. Cell phones have been found to be extremely unlikely to ever be able to cause the conditions which would ignite vapors, yet gas stations still ask us not to use them. This is the CYA factor. One fire can kill everyone at the station. While I, like you, have spent even more time filling gasoline tanks, vehicles, and numerous other items, and never had a problem, there's a very good reason why small engines always say to wait for the engine to cool before filling the tank. Gasoline vapors can ignite from the heat of a muffler or catalytic converter. It doesn't require a spark.
I guarantee you that with a temperature of -30 & a wind chill of -50, nothing outside in South Dakota is anywhere close to 495 degrees. Even in the summer time, I don't think it would be possible to ignite vapors with exhaust that has traveled 5 or 10 feet. Another factor here in SD is 90% of the days of the year the wind is blowing 20mph or more. We have had a constant wind of 30-40mph for the past week straight with an air temp in the 40's. I don't think ignition would be possible. & as far as exhaust system goes, It would not cool down at all in the amount of time it takes to fill with gas. Another factor is that here in SD I am quite often the only person at the gas station. I guess we just don't have the same conditions as everywhere else. I still hold to my stand that I don't think it's any riskier to leave your engine running than it is to shut it off.
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Old 04-30-2014, 08:09 AM   #36
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A Duramax idling at 21,000PSI actually sounds awesome, like it's got the nastiest racing camshaft you can find.

It's a test, used to establish the integrity of the high pressure side of the system. Any leak at all and it won't achieve it, especially useful when GM required us to figure out which LB7 injector split internally, they'd start spewing at 14,000 or so and would go no higher.
That's actually a really interesting way to perform the leak down test! Can't say I'd want it done on mine, but can't see how it would really damage anything either, just more paranoid I guess...

I will have to look more into the idea of cylinder wash down during idle. From some of the looking I have done since you questioned this it is a highly debatable scenario with no real facts defending either side. Many have said they feel it washes the oil from the cylinder wall each time the piston goes through it's motion, but haven't see any proof of such...
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Old 04-30-2014, 09:26 AM   #37
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Effects of Gasoline Vapor Towards Diesel Engine - YouTube

this video is interesting.

I guess is some jackass dumped a bunch of gasoline near a running diesel, there is a slight chance of a run away.
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Old 04-30-2014, 09:43 AM   #38
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I never shut down for fuel
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Old 04-30-2014, 12:11 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by silveradoduane View Post
I guarantee you that with a temperature of -30 & a wind chill of -50, nothing outside in South Dakota is anywhere close to 495 degrees. Even in the summer time, I don't think it would be possible to ignite vapors with exhaust that has traveled 5 or 10 feet. Another factor here in SD is 90% of the days of the year the wind is blowing 20mph or more. We have had a constant wind of 30-40mph for the past week straight with an air temp in the 40's. I don't think ignition would be possible. & as far as exhaust system goes, It would not cool down at all in the amount of time it takes to fill with gas. Another factor is that here in SD I am quite often the only person at the gas station. I guess we just don't have the same conditions as everywhere else. I still hold to my stand that I don't think it's any riskier to leave your engine running than it is to shut it off.
You can talk about the lack of likelihood, and you're right that it's not going to happen everywhere. But it CAN happen, has happened, and will continue to happen, whether or not it's happened to you or me. The rule is there for reduced risk, because it's a well known fact that gasoline vapors can, and do, ignite in the right situations, without a spark. If you believe that a running (or hot) engine doesn't increase risk in any way, then more power to you, but it's just not true. History of the entire world filling vehicles with gasoline, gives us that information. Even if it only slightly increases the risk, there is an increased risk. It wouldn't be prudent to base your opinion of whether or not there's an increased risk, solely off of your own experiences. Your experiences are less than 0.000000001% of the available data.

I'm only pointing out what the available data says, even though that I know, just as well as you, that the risk of it actually happening on a cold, windy, winter day, is slim to none. It's undoubtedly more likely on a hot, calm, summer day, when vapors are allowed to saturate an area.
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Old 04-30-2014, 06:11 PM   #40
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That's actually a really interesting way to perform the leak down test! Can't say I'd want it done on mine, but can't see how it would really damage anything either, just more paranoid I guess...

I will have to look more into the idea of cylinder wash down during idle. From some of the looking I have done since you questioned this it is a highly debatable scenario with no real facts defending either side. Many have said they feel it washes the oil from the cylinder wall each time the piston goes through it's motion, but haven't see any proof of such...
The pressure test is actually part of the diag procedure for a P1093 code, on the 2001-2004.5 Duramax trucks the injectors were famous for rupturing internally and losing fuel into the oil. The code is defined as low rail pressure during fuel enrichment, so you would connect the scanner, command the pressure to max and see how much the system would make. The LB7 engines topped out at 21,000PSI but with a bad injector would usually stop at 14,000 or so, anything + - 1,000PSI I believe, and it failed the test. Write it up, order a set of injectors and gaskets per the bulletin.

Interesting side note, a Duramax engine can hold 32 quarts of liquid in its crankcase before it comes out the breather hole in the side of the block. When they came with that code my first move was to check the oil, find it a foot up the stick, then check the fuel pressure. They filled the pans full of diesel. My 8 gallon drain pan would get filled completely up with what was actually pure diesel as all the oil was long gone out the separator. Believe it or not, never had a single bearing issue, engine or turbo, and some of those engines I worked on for over 200,000 miles.

I feel that the cylinder washing rumor stems from the old mechanical injected gasoline engine days. If the idle speed got low, or the injectors got weak, the injectors would dribble and non atomized gas doesn't burn well at all, even if the cylinder fired. Raw gas got by, rinsing the oil off the walls, making the rings lose their seal, allowing more blowby, losing power in the cylinders, lowering the idle, making it worse. Lots of folks have likened the very similar appearing diesel injection systems to those days, but the diesel injector cracking pressure is so high on the mechanical injectors, and through the roof on the electronically fired ones, that it would skip due to the fuel being improperly atomized.
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