Diesel exhaust fluid. Opinions!

Team Topper · 03-11-2012, 08:01 PM

Currently have a '04 gmc 2500 cc duramax. It's been a great truck. In 2010 we purchased a Sierra 355qbq. Even though it did a decent job of pulling the big 5er, I was considering buying a new bigger truck.

That was until I heard about def.. I did my research, and couldn't come up with definitive answers. But, 3 diesel mechanics I talked to said, stay away from it. Using terms like, "unproven, corrosive, a born lemon, and so on. So I passed on buying new and made some updates to my current ride.

My questions are, who has real world experience with def?, and what are your opinions? Does anyone think it will be repealed in the future? Thanks.

shabbona north · 03-11-2012, 08:42 PM

Ford has an EGR and DPF system in there 6.7 power stroke
The whole thing is revolving around what's coming out of the tail pipe
At this point it's like Beta vs. VHS either one could come out on top.

rkswyo · 03-11-2012, 08:42 PM

I would say it is here to stay until they come up with something "better". I hate what they have done to the new diesels. The emmisions garbage is killing them. I have a 2008 Dodge 6.7 Cummins and it was terrible on mileage. I deleted all the power robbing, motor killing, mileage killing emmisions equipment and picked up 5 mpg. Engine oil stays cleaner and engine temperature has dropped. Really like the truck now.

Cuttinchief · 03-11-2012, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkswyo

I would say it is here to stay until they come up with something "better". I hate what they have done to the new diesels. The emmisions garbage is killing them. I have a 2008 Dodge 6.7 Cummins and it was terrible on mileage. I deleted all the power robbing, motor killing, mileage killing emmisions equipment and picked up 5 mpg. Engine oil stays cleaner and engine temperature has dropped. Really like the truck now.

What did you remove?Curious I like to do the same?

JFM-jr · 03-11-2012, 09:54 PM

Here you go type EGR delete in the search box and you will probably be reading for a while. Great forum to join if your a Ram owner.

http://www.dodgetalk.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=445

rkswyo · 03-11-2012, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuttinchief

What did you remove?Curious I like to do the same?

EGR valve, DPF and NOX filters. I also opened up the air horn and modified the stock air box for better flow. To do this you need to use a programer to fool the computer to believing everything is intact. I am running a Smarty JR programer. It took me about 6 hours to do the whole works and about $750. It has been trouble free and worth every penny. It is a totally different truck now and it runs way better and never goes into regen. I picked up 5 mpg.

Bunkfamily · 03-12-2012, 06:38 AM

DEF is not new, look at European engines. lots of guy pulling have it ford and GM. Other than pump issues and figuring out consumption, it seems to do a great job.

trudinator · 03-12-2012, 07:19 AM

We bought a "new to us" 2006 Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins. When I first started reading these forums regarding diesel TV and heard the term DEF, I thought it was some kind of joke, you know, like a left handed screwdriver or a knipple valve. Since we'd never owned a diesel before, the term was totally new to me. Guess I'm glad we bought an '06 before Dodge started screwing with the exhaust and emissions.

Team Topper · 03-12-2012, 08:06 AM

For me it's not the additional cost of the fluid, or that I don't care about the environment. It comes down to, will the system give me nothing but problems over the years. Especially living in a cold climate.

It bothered me that the manufacturers will not warranty it past the 3 year/36k mile. Aren't emissions equipment supposed to have a 100k warranty? Read in a article that the Ford exhaust system weighs over 800 pounds. Also, hard to modify these trucks, illegal in most cases.

However, after driving both the new Ford and Chevy models, I was impressed. Quiet, internal engine braking, built in brake controllers, stronger frames, navigation, and so on.

Maybe after a few years if def proves itself, I'll change my mind. Time will tell.

TURBS · 03-12-2012, 08:51 AM

The dot in all states has RAISED the Max gvw on new over the
Road trucks because of the increased weight added for emissions.
That is bs imo.

dogwood36322 · 03-12-2012, 08:53 AM

I now have 11000 miles on my truck and it has used approximately 15 gallons of DEF. I do not see a drop in power or fuel mileage when it goes into cleaning. I guess it will be with us until something else is developed.

Coops1 · 03-12-2012, 07:15 PM

I'm at just over 5000 miles and still on the first 5 gallon's of urea. I think GM had one or two recalls to re-flash the system (software update) early on and from what I've read on other forums there hasn't been much problems since. I think/hope this is a moot point and I have no problems in the long run but like someone else has said urea is not a new concept. In my opinion it shouldn't hold you back from upgrading your truck... If you like what you have now you'll love the new one.

transamz9 · 03-12-2012, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coops1

In my opinion it shouldn't hold you back from upgrading your truck... If you like what you have now you'll love the new one.

IDK that I would say that.......I don't think you can get 19-20 MPG everyday out of any of the new Diesels and I don't have to buy the DEF fluid either. You want to talk power? I spent $1500 and you won't touch the power I have with any of the new one unless you do away with all that junk. The jets that our so call leaders ride in put out more emissions that all of the light duty diesel truck put out together in one year. They need to leave us alone and worry about the more important stuff , like getting our brothers home and feeding our hungry not everybody elses.

RattVader · 03-12-2012, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkswyo

I would say it is here to stay until they come up with something "better". I hate what they have done to the new diesels. The emmisions garbage is killing them. I have a 2008 Dodge 6.7 Cummins and it was terrible on mileage. I deleted all the power robbing, motor killing, mileage killing emmisions equipment and picked up 5 mpg. Engine oil stays cleaner and engine temperature has dropped. Really like the truck now.

Ditto here as well.Can't remember what programmer I got to go along with the delete but it's been a year now with absolutely zero problems,several long tows and it's not a daily driver,so it's been run at both ends of the spectrum.

Coops1 · 03-12-2012, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by transamz9

IDK that I would say that.......I don't think you can get 19-20 MPG everyday out of any of the new Diesels and I don't have to buy the DEF fluid either. You want to talk power? I spent $1500 and you won't touch the power I have with any of the new one unless you do away with all that junk. The jets that our so call leaders ride in put out more emissions that all of the light duty diesel truck put out together in one year. They need to leave us alone and worry about the more important stuff , like getting our brothers home and feeding our hungry not everybody elses.

I didn't say he should or shouldn't modify the truck, I just said he'll love it. The OP said he's after a bigger truck and the new one fits the bill.

When my warranty is up I'll be taking a serious look at doing the delete as long as they don't bring in mandatory emissions testing.

whj77372 · 03-16-2012, 04:01 PM

Both the Ford's and Chev's have DEF for 2011 and the Dodge's will have it for 2012.
My F250 2011 CC longbed diesel gets 18.5 MPG empty and 13 GPG towing a 9,900 lbs 5er.

Coops1 · 03-16-2012, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whj77372

Both the Ford's and Chev's have DEF for 2011 and the Dodge's will have it for 2012.
My F250 2011 CC longbed diesel gets 18.5 MPG empty and 13 GPG towing a 9,900 lbs 5er.

2013 is when Dodge will have it.

EdJunior · 03-16-2012, 07:59 PM

This is a post I put on the Diesel Forum for my F-250:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"So, I just wanted to share my experience on my first real tow with the new truck. I have a 30' 5th wheel that loaded for our trip, came in around 10,500 pounds, maybe a bit more for this particular trip. We went from home (a little northeast of Houston) to Canyon Lake (just north of San Antonio). About 225 miles one way.

As I set the kingpin down on the hitch, the truck squatted about an inch and a half. Took just about 35 pounds in the air bags to get it level again. The ride was okay at first, but once I hit the bad stuff of Houston (concrete roads in not so good shape), the trailer started chucking and bouncing pretty good. I pumped up the air and at 55 pounds, I was able to get a decent ride. It did set the rear up a little high, but still plenty of clearance between the bed rails and the trailer.

The engine/transmission. All I can say is WOW! I'm not a big believer in the "night and day" thing, but this is just about as close as you can come. And that's even giving praise to the 6.4L I had. It was a good truck. This one is better. I set the cruise control at about 67 mph, and I could relax and let the truck do its thing. I think I remember only one time it had to come down out of 6th gear, and even that was so smooth and quiet, I barely noticed it. I don't think the boost ever went above the halfway mark (20). Ever! At 67 mph, it was pulling about 1600 - 1700 RPM and was so smooth and quiet it nearly put you to sleep!

On the trip to San Antonio, with a slight cross/head wind, I got 10.2 mpg. On the trip back, I managed 10.5 with a cross wind part of the trip. These mileages are on I-10 between Houston and San Antonio primarily. I did have some hilly areas once I got off of I-10 heading to Canyon Lake.

In the hilly area of Canyon Lake, the truck did superb. Once it found the gear it liked, it just did its thing. There was no strain, no noise and no problem. But keep in mind, these are not very big hills, though a couple were decent at least.

So, the good? I love those airbags. I have the Airlift wireless remote compressor, so I could adjust the pressure from the cab, while doing 60 mph down the highway. What a pleasure that was. I could find the right pressure for the conditions.

This engine is about as smooth as a baby's butt. Man is it nice. I really liked my 6.4L, but even on many overpasses, it would slip down a gear and was pretty noisy when it did it. The 6.7L never skipped a beat. As I said above, only once do I remember it hunting a gear, and I barely noticed it. Also, the 6.4L was almost always right at 20 or a little above on the boost, And the RPM's were up around 2000. I know some of that is due to the 3.73 I had on that truck as compared to the 3.31 on this one. But still, it is an amazing difference.

The bad? Man, I really can't think of anything bad to say. Maybe a little disappointment in the gas mileage towing the trailer, but nothing to write home about. And it's still better than the old truck."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Not towing, my daily driving, I'm getting almost 20mpg. I have about 6,500 miles on the odometer right now. I am thoroughly impressed with this truck. As far as the DEF, in the first 5,000 miles or so, it used just over half a tank. In the 2011 models, it only indicates "OK" or "Under Half a Tank". So I went to Sam's Club, bought a bottle of DEF (2.5 gallons) and topped it off. It is still reading "OK".

I'm not big on all the emissions crap that is tacked on the trucks these days, and I truly believe it held back a lot on the 6.4L from Ford, and the Cummins as well. But this new Ford diesel is a pretty amazing engine. Super quiet, no old diesel smell, a lot of power, and just a pleasure to drive.

donn · 03-16-2012, 08:21 PM

Sorry, I just don't see the improvement's claimed using DEF. You claim 10.5 towing a little 10,500 pounds. Heck I have seen 11.5 hand calculated towing 13,500 pounds with my bone stock 6.7L Dodge dually.

EdJunior · 03-17-2012, 09:17 AM

I didn't say I saw any improvement using DEF. My understanding of DEF is that it helps reduce the emissions further. Whether is affects performance or mileage, I can't say. I'm not going to take a chance with my warranty to find out. What I am saying is, the performance of the 2011 6.7L diesel over the 2008-2010 6.4L diesel is pretty significant. And I did also say that I was probably a little disappointed in the towing mileage. I know some of it can be attributed to the winds, but it seems I should have gotten a little better. Still, I'm not at all disappointed in any aspect of this new truck.

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