Diesel or Gas

[asquared]

Go with a 3/4 ton gasser. I went from a half ton SUV to a 3/4 ton diesel to tow my 7000 lb tt once a month. I drive it every day. The fuel gets expensive. The cetane fuel additives do add up. Oil changes are $100 every 5000 miles. You have more maintenance ( things like draining fuel filters monthly, adding fuel additives to every tank of fuel etc.). Repairs tend to cost more than a gasser. Then there is the regeneration phase aka cleaning exhaust filter, this will burn more fuel when the truck
does this.
Ours is a daily driver. We bought a used diesel figuring it would have more life in it since diesels tend to live to he 300-500,000 miles. I love driving it. I love towing with it. I get 13-14 mpg daily and 11 mpg towing. I probably would not go back to towing w/ a gasser just because I love the power and the engine braking it offers me. Having been in a situation where I had too much tt for the tv and having some very bad experiences with it, Idont want to ever go back to towing marginal again. I think an 8000 lb dry tt is too heavy for a half ton. The half ton limiting factor is its payload. A tt will have a tongue weight of 13-15% of the loaded tt weight. On average people tend to load approx 1000-1500 lbs of gear in the tt, some less and some will load more. To give you an idea, we are a family of 3 with one small child and nothing crazy in the tt just dishes, clothes, chairs, tools, the usual junk and we have put almost 1500 lbs into our tt. This was measured 2 ways, one way was weighing everything as it went in. The other was we scaled the tt empty on the way home from the dealership and then again loaded ready to camp.

[jeeplj8]

I always confused at those people who recommend a 3/4 ton gas engine truck to someone who states they will use it as a daily driver. Ironically, this is often the situation where the empty MPG of the diesel is a strong argument for going diesel.

To the OP - you bought a pretty heavy trailer. Welcome to the club, lot's of us have them. The bad news, you will need some serious truck to pull it any distance. The good news, there are more serious trucks out there these days than ever before.

The first question you asked is if there is a 1/2 ton capable. The MPG figures you listed may have used a different standard, but generally speaking any of the 1/2 ton pickup's will work out to an empty highway mileage figure of 18-20 MPG. The Ford ecoboost will do slightly better, but many have reported that with the lower gear ratio of the maxtow package, it only about 2 MPG improvement. However, that is 10% which is nothing to sneeze at.

In 1/2 ton trucks, it is my opinion that if you tow you need the highest possible payload configuration. It appears that the Ford maxtow package with the ecoboost is the current highest combination of payload and tow rating, followed closely by the Dodge. Chevy is in a re-design which probably put then all within a few pounds. They will also all be within a few MPG. The big difference is getting the package you want/need.

The Dodge 1/2 ton diesel looks to have impressive numbers. I will be shocked if the price does not match the Forb ecoboost. That engine in the Ford is already an option, so the price should be amazingly close. If you are not in a hurry, wait until it is released. The Ford will still be there if you like it better.

Now a lot of people will say you need a 3/4 ton truck. There is no doubt a 3/4 will pull that trailer better, but that is your call. I just want to point out a couple things about going gas vs diesel in 3/4 trucks. A gas 3/4 truck will get 30-40% less MPG than a gas 1/2 ton truck. It is much like loading your 1/2 ton truck to max payload and driving around. Of course the MPG goes down! However, a diesel 3/4 truck will get roughly the same MPG, and often quite a bit better, as a gas 1/2 ton truck. If you do a lot of empty driving, you will notice the difference much more than those who only tow.

Diesel trucks are an animal unto themselves. Everything is different. They depreciate differently. They drive differently. They tow differently. They require different maintenance.

Diesel trucks almost always cost more up front, but are worth way more in the end. My current truck with 215K miles on it does not depreciate. Period. I can sell it today for what I paid for it 2 years and 50K miles ago. The amount of miles I put on it every year does not affect the value very much. Diesel trucks are like that. People who know diesel's are not afraid of 200K mile trucks or 300K mile trucks. The truck will fall apart long before the engine does.

The interesting thing here is that if you drive a lot of miles every year, the lack of depreciation on a diesel truck can be huge factor.

I know in my area new diesel truck prices are very competitive. I can get a brand new Dodge diesel for just a little more than Ford Ecoboost maxtow as those are so rare.

[NO 1 DIESEL DR]

I know there will be many thoughts on this subject, however I am known by some folks as Mr. Diesel. I have had a blessings to have made many positive strives in the diesel industry.

I would recommend the Ford ecco-boost over the diesel 3/4 ton of any brand as long as you stay within a safe towing range. I like the ecco-bost for the fuel savings,performance and durability.

I have a 1 ton duramax but, I have used my 2011 eco-boost with the tow dolly to pull my 40ft horse trailer and 40ft 3 axel toy hauler.
You would be surprised how well it pulled it with good braking.

If you are going to use something like the 1500 ram or the ecco-boost I would install a nice fithwheel and a nice set of air-lift air bags to make it a complete towing unit.
It may not be for everyone, however, I do like the flexability of using my ASH!
Jerry <*)))><
www.mcclainperformancediesel.com

[RubenZ]

I'm not so sure diesel is the way to go these days. It used to be when it was a lot cheaper than gas and had better numbers. These days, gas engines are putting out good numbers and gas is almost .50 cents cheaper than gas. I don't ever expect that to change any more.

[Oaklevel]

Congrats on your PUMA we love ours & are on the second one... We decided we wanted a TH so got the Puma 356QLB last summer....



What am I missing here???? Everyone says how much more it is to operate a diesel than a gas truck..... Fuel is a little higher that is true......
But you change the oil less frequently (Yes it cost me about $65 to change). You do change the fuel filters more often but for me that is it......... I have had two 7.3 Fords and 2 Dodges one with a Hemi the other with the Cummins. The Cummins I get much better fuel economy than the gas Hemi. The maint. cost haven't been that much more. Of course if something major were to go wrong look out !!!!

Summer 2011 I bought a nice 2005, 52K Dodge Dulley Cummins AT for around 19K it has 65K on it now (no I do not drive it daily I have a 50 mile commute ea way). Other than tires (Someone put P rated tires on it) and oil change & fuel filter I have done noting . LOL do feed it diesel every now & then.... but solo it does get close to 20MPG

[wneise]

I am pulling a 9000 pound 5er with my Eco boost with no problems and that is through some decent hills in SoCal at highway speed. We also go about once a month if that and not to far. Other than that, it is a daily driver too. A few extras to consider, you will need a WD hitch and do get sway control for something that big. Both add tongue weight so make sure the back end is rated for it. Maybe a 3/4 ton should be considered. Another thing with diesels is that you should take a good long road trip once in a while to burn off the buildup in the soot filter or you'll pay bank to replace it. I think your best bet would be a gasser and if you go 1/2 ton, get max tow and put some bags on the rear axle.

[Dave_Monica]

Originally Posted by jeeplj8

I always confused at those people who recommend a 3/4 ton gas engine truck to someone who states they will use it as a daily driver. Ironically, this is often the situation where the empty MPG of the diesel is a strong argument for going diesel.

I think it depends a lot a what kind of daily commute you have. I don't think the newer emission controlled diesels like short trips too much without spending lots of time in regen.

Dave

[WolfWhistle]

I vote for 250/2500 gasoline. The Eco F150 can't handle your max load... no 150/1500 can. Ignore biased brand loyalty comments. Find your best deal and what speaks to you. It is possible that hybrid could get the kind of mileage you mentioned... (did you mean kilometers... litres??) If you had one that could do this, it could NOT pull your trailer. It would be an honest to goodness miracle... as it would defy all the laws of physics.

[bakken]

Originally Posted by WolfWhistle

I vote for 250/2500 gasoline. The Eco F150 can't handle your max load... no 150/1500 can. Ignore biased brand loyalty comments.

Better yet, ignore this comment.
The F150 Ecoboost with max towing package is easily capable of pulling your camper.
My best friend pulls a 30-foot fifth wheel with a pontoon boat behind with his EcoBEAST.
Nuff said.

[RubenZ]

Originally Posted by bakken

Better yet, ignore this comment.
The F150 Ecoboost with max towing package is easily capable of pulling your camper.
My best friend pulls a 30-foot fifth wheel with a pontoon boat behind with his EcoBEAST.
Nuff said.

Just because it can doesn't mean you should. A lot goes into what a truck can pull. brakes, Frame, Axles, Transmissions. Not just a motor. I personally wouldn't use a half-ton for anything over 5,000 lbs. But I may be too safe.

[camper1999]

Originally Posted by Oaklevel

Congrats on your PUMA we love ours & are on the second one... We decided we wanted a TH so got the Puma 356QLB last summer....



What am I missing here???? Everyone says how much more it is to operate a diesel than a gas truck..... Fuel is a little higher that is true......
But you change the oil less frequently (Yes it cost me about $65 to change). You do change the fuel filters more often but for me that is it......... I have had two 7.3 Fords and 2 Dodges one with a Hemi the other with the Cummins. The Cummins I get much better fuel economy than the gas Hemi. The maint. cost haven't been that much more. Of course if something major were to go wrong look out !!!!

Summer 2011 I bought a nice 2005, 52K Dodge Dulley Cummins AT for around 19K it has 65K on it now (no I do not drive it daily I have a 50 mile commute ea way). Other than tires (Someone put P rated tires on it) and oil change & fuel filter I have done noting . LOL do feed it diesel every now & then.... but solo it does get close to 20MPG

X2 additionally diesel is more expensive but depending on if I am towing or not I get 50%-75% increase in mpg. If you do the math you are a head with diesel. The cost to operate is not much more. As you can tell I am now a diesel man. I had towed with a gassers and if you are towing anything around 10,000 pounds and plan on taking a few long trips a year diesel is the way to go. Refueling using the truck stops like Pilot makes refueling a snap pulling the 35 plus feet behind you. Also on the subject of the newer emissions while it is true the regen process does require about 30 minutes at about 35 miles per hour every 500 miles or so, as long as you take a few longer trips a year to allow the full regen they work fine.

[Herk7769]

Originally Posted by Dave_Monica

I think it depends a lot a what kind of daily commute you have. I don't think the newer emission controlled diesels like short trips too much without spending lots of time in regen.

Dave

Boy Howdy, Ain't that the truth!

On the way to Florida I found out the hard way about Regen! The DW has been laid up with her knee replacement and I have been driving her Buick for 3 months. The truck has been sitting in the driveway waiting for her recovery. Only been used for short trips to my dad's since we put the camper to bed in mid September.

Half way to our first stop engine warning "Operating at Reduced Power" shows up on the DIC and I got NUTHIN pulling away from a light. Sat by the side of the road while coordinating with my dealership's maintenance department who needed the failure codes to even start helping me.

Called OnStar with truck while had the dealership on the cell phone and while sitting on the shoulder ran full engine and transmission diagnostics. Got the codes and they found a GMC dealership two blocks from where I was sitting.

They said I could drive it slowly and not need a tow. What a pain doing it but the GMC dealership was fully briefed and waiting for me when we got there. Down side was the dealership would need the truck overnight as their diesel guys were busy with a rebuild. However, after some discussion (and the service writer going back for a lengthy talk with their diesel mech, they suspected the regen issue.

He suggested I drop the camper and take the truck out for a run up and down the highway. If the power returned we were fixed; if not we could camp in their lot until we could get repaired.

I did as he suggested and lo and behold we were fixed and after being assured there was "No Charge" we were off. Total delay 1 hour.

Kudos to OnStar, Faulkner GMC (Trevose), and Kent County Motors (GMC) in Dover, DE for getting me going again.

Learned a LOT about REGEN drinking from a fire hose.
Not a recommended way to find out.

[bakken]

Originally Posted by RubenZ

Just because it can doesn't mean you should. A lot goes into what a truck can pull. brakes, Frame, Axles, Transmissions. Not just a motor. I personally wouldn't use a half-ton for anything over 5,000 lbs. But I may be too safe.

Half-tons used to be just that, trucks made to haul lighter loads.
But the newer trucks, and especially the F150 EcoBoost, is designed from the ground up to be a tow vehicle. It has as much capability as my older F250.
I will agree that my buddy pulling his fifth wheel AND a pontoon boat was a bit much, and he didn't pull it that far. But he did do it, which clearly demonstrates the power of that truck.
There are a pile of people on this site who are pulling 10,000 GVWR fifth wheels with the EcoBoost, and I have not heard one say their truck was struggling.
Dodge and Chev haven't caught up, yet. But they are in the hunt.

[WolfWhistle]

Originally Posted by bakken

Better yet, ignore this comment.
The F150 Ecoboost with max towing package is easily capable of pulling your camper.
My best friend pulls a 30-foot fifth wheel with a pontoon boat behind with his EcoBEAST.
Nuff said.

Do you really care what somebodies friend is doing? A Toyota can also pull the space shuttle. Do you think it SHOULD? But again, (IMO) no half-ton can pull 11K pounds of trailer comfortably and safely. If I am correct your TT dry is 8100# and max 11K#. People also pull their TTs at 75 MPH, but is this safe. Of course, the answer is no, plus it is against the law in most states? I am sure and Eco could pull my 21RR, but I bought a 2500 Cummins Dodge for about the same money, because I know I am going to go to a bigger TT; yes, even bigger than the Eco can handle. The question then becomes SHOULD you do it, rather than COULD you do it. I wouldn't pull your trailer with less than a 250/2500... gas if you don't pull much and diesel if it makes sense for your situation.

Bakken, show me the numbers. What is this miracle half-ton Ford's payload and towing capacity? Then, what is truck and trailer(s) weights of your friends "tandem" rig? Also, bakken, please refrain from insulting comments. Just give your opinions / ideas without attacking others. Nuff said?

[wneise]

RubenZ. Check the numbers. Compare a light duty and HD truck with the same engine. Going from a 150 max tow to a 250 with the same rear end will give you maybe an extra 2000 pounds. Yes the 4.3 will double that but it's not a practical daily driver. If he was full timing it and going cross country, yes go HD and get the diesel too. But he wants a truck that will do both and it's only going to pull maybe 10-15% of the time. half tons these days are being built like the 3/4 tons of a couple of decades ago. Thanks to the big three and their pissing contests over who builds the best truck, we can get a really great hauler in a light duty with the right equipment.

[Len & Cheri]

Originally Posted by bakken

Half-tons used to be just that, trucks made to haul lighter loads.
But the newer trucks, and especially the F150 EcoBoost, is designed from the ground up to be a tow vehicle. It has as much capability as my older F250.

I agree. People hear 1/2 ton and automatically think of yesteryears 1/2 ton capabilities. 1/2 tons have changed and people need to update their thinking about the capabilities these newer 1/2's have.

Even if the OP adds 1500 lbs to TT, he will still only be at 9600 TT weight, well below the 11,300 rated weight of a maxxed out Ecoboost. Dry tongue weight is 879, after loading I'd guess a 1100 tongue weight.

[Herk7769]

Originally Posted by WolfWhistle

Also, bakken, please refrain from insulting comments. Just give your opinions / ideas without attacking others. Nuff said?

What comments did you find "insulting" or "attacking others"?
Perhaps I am missing something.

Was something edited?

[wneise]

It's interesting that people say you should NOT tow anywhere near the rated weight of a truck built by a long standing manufacturer who tests these trucks to well beyond such numbers, but when they quote the weight of the trailer, it's always the max load of the rig as if to say go ahead and stuff the thing to the gills and you'll never pull it with a 150. I don't think FR really puts full stress tests on their rigs like truck manufactures do to their trucks. I'm sure some rv manufactures only take the rating of the frame and axels and say here ya go, this thing will haul 3000 lbs of your goodies. Look at the number of posts from people with the splitting Lippert 5th wheel frames.

[jeeplj8]

Originally Posted by herk7769

Boy Howdy, Ain't that the truth!

On the way to Florida I found out the hard way about Regen! The DW has been laid up with her knee replacement and I have been driving her Buick for 3 months. The truck has been sitting in the driveway waiting for her recovery. Only been used for short trips to my dad's since we put the camper to bed in mid September.

Half way to our first stop engine warning "Operating at Reduced Power" shows up on the DIC and I got NUTHIN pulling away from a light. Sat by the side of the road while coordinating with my dealership's maintenance department who needed the failure codes to even start helping me.

Called OnStar with truck while had the dealership on the cell phone and while sitting on the shoulder ran full engine and transmission diagnostics. Got the codes and they found a GMC dealership two blocks from where I was sitting.

They said I could drive it slowly and not need a tow. What a pain doing it but the GMC dealership was fully briefed and waiting for me when we got there. Down side was the dealership would need the truck overnight as their diesel guys were busy with a rebuild. However, after some discussion (and the service writer going back for a lengthy talk with their diesel mech, they suspected the regen issue.

He suggested I drop the camper and take the truck out for a run up and down the highway. If the power returned we were fixed; if not we could camp in their lot until we could get repaired.

I did as he suggested and lo and behold we were fixed and after being assured there was "No Charge" we were off. Total delay 1 hour.

Kudos to OnStar, Faulkner GMC (Trevose), and Kent County Motors (GMC) in Dover, DE for getting me going again.

Learned a LOT about REGEN drinking from a fire hose.
Not a recommended way to find out.

I confess I have never driven a diesel with regen. I don't believe all models are the same or have the regen problem. That would tend to excise my patience...

[Herk7769]

Diesels after 2007 (Ultra Low Sulphur) have a "particulate filter" in the exhaust. Normally, just driving it burns up the carbon in the filter.

Not driving it not far enough to get the filter hot enough to burn the residue or using Low Sulphur truck gas (even once) can clog it quickly.