Double towing w/Andersen Ultimate?

[Goldtop77]

Hi Everyone,

I'm considering buying an Andersen Ultimate II hitch to tow a mid profile fifth wheel trailer (also not purchased yet.)

I want to know if that type of connection fulfills the requirement (in Minnesota) to have a “fifth-wheel” coupling in order to tow a small fishing boat behind the 5ver.

I sent an email to the MN State Patrol last week and am waiting to see what they say. In the mean time, if any of you know, please pass your knowledge on this way!

Thanks,
Eric

[Hersbird]

I would think a gooseneck being normally stronger and higher rated than a fifth wheel would be acceptable. I would also think anything that converts a 5th wheel to a gooseneck or a gooseneck to a 5th wheel would also be fine if within it's ratings.

[Goldtop77]

Thank you for your response. I agree with you that it should be more than adequate. However, what I think and what the law allows are not always the same.

This is from the state regarding double towing:


Recreational vehicle (RV): Minnesota allows an
RV three-vehicle combination only if all
of the following conditions are met:

Only a “fifth-wheel” coupling is allowed
between the pickup
truck and the middle
vehicle.

The second trailer may only haul watercra
ft, a motorcycle, a motorized bicycle,
off-highway motorcycle, ATV, snowmobile
, motorized golf cart or equestrian
equipment or supplies.

The total combination of vehicl
es does not exceed 70 feet.

The towing rating of the pickup truck is equal
to or greater than
the total weight of
all vehicles being towed.

The trailer hitch assemblies, as well as
the pickup truck hitch assembly, must
conform to MN Statute M.S. 169.82.

The driver is at least 18 years of age.

No travel within the Twin Cities Metro area during weekday rush hour times:
6:00 am – 8:30 am and 3:30 pm – 6:00 pm.



Furthermore, MN Statute M.S. 169.82 describes the pickup truck hitch assembly as "a regulation fifth wheel and kingpin assembly approved by the commissioner of public safety."

I'm thinking I may be out of luck.

[dbear]

Pretty much all state DMVs are braindead. (Mine tried to have me retake a road test to go from CDL B to class D w/RV endorsement.)

Double towing requires a standard fifth wheel hitch. Okay, how about a situation where a good citizen uses a standard, 20k pound, 5er hitch to double tow a total of 21k pounds vs an outlaw who uses a 24k pound Andersen to double tow 21k pounds?

Or how about where in the fine print of Ford Motor Company's own documentation (2017 Super Duty Pickup Towing Guide) it says "Gooseneck tow rating shown. 5th-wheel tow rating limited to.." a lower value based upon srw vs drw than that listed in the table, which clearly indicates a gooseneck hitch can tow more than a 5er hitch, at least in Ford pickup applications?

DMVs are out of touch. Not sure how to bring them out of the horse-and-buggy era.

[Goldtop77]

Agreed

[Mountndream]

off topic

but why is a gooseneck considered stronger? just curious

[hbillsmith]

The Andersen Ultimate II is marketed and branded as a "fifth wheel hitch". I have used one for 3 years and would have no hesitation in simply showing any DMV or state trooper the documentation that comes with the hitch if the need ever arose.

That said, my only experience or familiarity with double towing is that I see folks doing it out on the interstates from time to time. Based purely on my non-double Andersen towing, I can't imagine why the Andersen vs. legacy hitches would be an issue.

I might suggest that you give Jason at Andersen Customer Service a call. He is very friendly and helpful and may be able to share with you experiences by some of their customers that have done what you propose.

Jason at (208) 523-6460 or*(800) 635-6106

[Hersbird]

Originally Posted by Mountndream

off topic

but why is a gooseneck considered stronger? just curious

I would think it's stronger on the pickup end because there is less leverage of the load through the hitch. It would not be as strong on the trailer end because now that's where all that leverage force is now. The gooseneck trailer or adaptor piece needs to be "overbuilt" more so than a normal 5th wheel as the trailer is seeing more stress. I don't think the Anderson changes anything as the actual flexing/moving coupling point isn't changed, it's still truly a 5th wheel. There are other gooseneck adaptors out there that go on the trailer not the truck but I'd worry some about using them on a camper unless I knew the hitch of the camper was built to handle something like that.

[Goldtop77]

I think it's antiquated language. So far everyone I've talked to at the state is not familiar with the Andersen hitch.

[sfsgm]

To add to your comment about double/triple towing:

https://rv-roadtrips.thefuntimesguid...triple_towing/

[18CrewDually]

The difference in a standard 5th wheel and an Andersen hitch is the coupling. A kingpin and jaw is a positive stronger engagement where compared to an Andersen it's converting back to a ball & coupler design like a gooseneck which has a risk of popping apart. For this reason too, is why safety chains are installed, and in most states required, on a gooseneck ball couplers and not on kingpin & jaw 5th wheels.

[hbillsmith]

Originally Posted by 05CrewDually

...A kingpin and jaw is a positive stronger engagement where compared to an Andersen...which has a risk of popping apart.

COMMENT: I'm not sure I would agree with this statement. According to Andersen they have shipped somewhere over 19,000 of their design and not a single occurrence of a "popping apart". On the other hand, I've read many reports in this and other forums of legacy-type fifth wheel hitches slipping out and damaging truck beds because the locking mechanism wasn't secure.

Originally Posted by 05CrewDually

...is why safety chains are installed, and in most states required...

COMMENT: This is true for some states, just not "most" states. Last time I saw a discussion on this, the report was it's just 2 or 3 states. I have never seen a report that someone was ticketed for no chains attached to an Andersen. To be fair, I do have chains on my Andersen since it's such a simple add and is easy to manage.

[18CrewDually]

Originally Posted by hbillsmith

COMMENT: I'm not sure I would agree with this statement. According to Andersen they have shipped somewhere over 19,000 of their design and not a single occurrence of a "popping apart". On the other hand, I've read many reports in this and other forums of legacy-type fifth wheel hitches slipping out and damaging truck beds because the locking mechanism wasn't secure.



COMMENT: This is true for some states, just not "most" states. Last time I saw a discussion on this, the report was it's just 2 or 3 states. I have never seen a report that someone was ticketed for no chains attached to an Andersen. To be fair, I do have chains on my Andersen since it's such a simple add and is easy to manage.

Youre fogging the facts. Anybody that crushed the bed of their truck was operator error by not latching the jaws. Once latched it will not come apart even with some wear. Unlike a ball hitch. Over the road tractors use the same kingpin on their trailers and haul cgvw 80,000 lbs. None use a ball hitch.

[Goldtop77]

Just to update-

I finally heard back from the Minnesota State Patrol. According to Sgt Jesse Grabow, "The Anderson Ultimate hitch does not meet the definition of a fifth wheel-kingpin."
Therefore it is not legal to double tow in Minnesota with the Andersen Ultimate Hitch.

Bummer