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Old 06-10-2014, 06:34 PM   #1
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Drivers license oops!

We just discovered both my wife and I don't have drivers licenses that allow us to drive our rig!

Over the past several years we have upgraded both our truck and campers a couple of times, getting bigger each time. We suddenly realized our F-350 dually at 14000 GVW and our Silverback 29RE at 13615 GVW puts us over the max limit on our PA class C licenses (we're limited to less then 26001 pounds). I checked into the possibility of re-registering the Silverback at a lower weight (you can do that in PA) but it turns out the weight police go by what's on the stickers on the vehicle, not on the registered weight.

So we have 3 choices. First, ignore it and hope we never get stopped or have an accident where weight might be an issue (which also means, of course, knowingly driving illegally). Second, get a class A license. Doable, but a big hassle. Third, downsize the trailer. Right now our dealer has a 2015 Surveyor SVF-293RLTS for less then $4K out. It has a GVWR of 11952, 48 pounds under our DL limit.

Right now we're leaning toward trading trailers. After all, the Silverback is 2 years old and starting to have some issues, including the need for new tires in a year or two.

So a word to the wise...check your drivers licenses and any other state weight restrictions BEFORE your next trade!!
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Old 06-10-2014, 06:45 PM   #2
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join the club with the rest of us rebels. Many are over I bet and don't even know. I'm more concerned about the old farts driving huge class A diesel pushers
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Old 06-10-2014, 06:49 PM   #3
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...I'm more concerned about the old farts driving huge class A diesel pushers
X2

Not a problem for me, I still have 125# to reach the limit.

According to NCDOT, "Above 26,000 lb GVWR or GCWR requires non-commercial Class A or B"
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Old 06-10-2014, 07:18 PM   #4
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Even with the GVW of the truck are you near it? Seems mighty heavy to get the truck and trailer over 26k. Our Chevy 3500 (7k) and Columbus (14k) are about 21k.

Best,
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Old 06-10-2014, 07:30 PM   #5
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Even with the GVW of the truck are you near it? Seems mighty heavy to get the truck and trailer over 26k. Our Chevy 3500 (7k) and Columbus (14k) are about 21k.

Best,
not the actual weight, the GCVWR. The GVWR of my Chevy 3500 is 11,600, GVWR of my 32ft 5er is 13900. At 25,500 GCWR I'm barely legal.
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Old 06-10-2014, 07:34 PM   #6
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Sounds like a great combo though
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Old 06-10-2014, 07:34 PM   #7
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Second, get a class A license. Doable, but a big hassle.
How big a hassle?

http://www.dot4.state.pa.us/pdotform...orms/dl-31.pdf

Is it more than 5 bucks and a road test?
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Old 06-10-2014, 07:37 PM   #8
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I checked Ky's license class and it's 26k limit before requiring a Class C CDL. The statue just states "weight". If using GVW of my fiver and TV I'm #24,100 combined. Thanks for the useful info.
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Old 06-10-2014, 10:59 PM   #9
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How big a hassle?

http://www.dot4.state.pa.us/pdotform...orms/dl-31.pdf

Is it more than 5 bucks and a road test?
OK, lets see...possibly the biggest hassle is finding someone at PennDot who actually has a clue. When you say Class A license they immediately reply with something like "oh, you mean a CDL". Once you get past that there seems to be no study guide so they tell you to use the CDL guide. Then there's the problem of finding someone with a Class A to go with me, since I can't legally drive my rig on a learners permit, to the testing location, the nearest one being 50 miles away. That's about the extent of my personal knowledge but I refer you to this link for a real horror story:

Pennsylvania DOT Requirements For Non-Commercial Class "B" Driver's License For Motorhomes Over 26,000 pounds - Laws and legislative action - FMCA Motorhome Forums

Now don't get me wrong, I like my Silverback but it is more camper then we really need. The one we're looking at is a foot shorter and 1800 pounds lighter with virtually the same features as the Silverback. We have found the length to be an issue a couple times with the kind of places we go as loosing a foot might be a good thing and lighter is always a good thing!
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Old 06-10-2014, 11:05 PM   #10
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Even with the GVW of the truck are you near it? Seems mighty heavy to get the truck and trailer over 26k. Our Chevy 3500 (7k) and Columbus (14k) are about 21k.

Best,
Yea, we're no where near the combined GVWR but the law uses those weights for determining the required license class. In our case truck: 14,000 trailer 13,15 for a total combined GVWR of 27,615. 1615 pounds over what my license allows. Things get all goofy and complicated here as soon as the trailer goes over 10,000 GVW.
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Old 06-11-2014, 12:43 AM   #11
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Are you sure they use the stickers... I am not the weight police but when I cite for registration and other such violations we go off the REGISTERED weight of the vehicle (the number on your reg card) not the weight on the truck. My father used to have his trucks down weighted below CDL status after it became impossible to get a CDL driver to drive his dump trucks. It was near an issue with them.

I will ask our motor carrier guy and see what he goes off when I see him next.
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Old 06-11-2014, 02:17 AM   #12
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I know it doesn't work this way but using the stickers, instead of actual weights, to determine whether you are legal or not, would be the same as being pulled over when you were under the posted limit and given a speeding ticket because your vehicle has the ability to exceed the posted limit.
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Old 06-11-2014, 04:43 AM   #13
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Are you sure they use the stickers... I am not the weight police but when I cite for registration and other such violations we go off the REGISTERED weight of the vehicle (the number on your reg card) not the weight on the truck. My father used to have his trucks down weighted below CDL status after it became impossible to get a CDL driver to drive his dump trucks. It was near an issue with them.

I will ask our motor carrier guy and see what he goes off when I see him next.
-Pat
At this point I'm not sure of anything. Ask 6 "experts" and get 6 different answers, but this is what I'm using:

The PA code for Class A:

CLASS A (minimum age 18): Required to operate any combination of vehicles with a gross weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more, where the vehicle(s) being towed is/are in excess of 10,000 pounds. Example: Recreational Vehicle, when the towing vehicle is rated at 11,000 pounds and the vehicle towed is rated at 15,500 pounds (total combination weight of 26,500 pounds).

And PennDot's definition from the commercial drivers manual:

Gross vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR). the maximum GVW specified by the manufacturer for a single vehicle plus its load.

I doubt they use a different definition for commercial and noncommercial licenses. To me it seems clear. They mean the number on the sticker and not the number on the registration card.
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Old 06-11-2014, 04:46 AM   #14
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I know it doesn't work this way but using the stickers, instead of actual weights, to determine whether you are legal or not, would be the same as being pulled over when you were under the posted limit and given a speeding ticket because your vehicle has the ability to exceed the posted limit.
It might work that way if vehicles had a maximum speed rating and your license specified how high that could be for your class of license.
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Old 06-11-2014, 04:57 AM   #15
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As long as your wife is with you...you add the two classes together 26001 + 26001=(52002) so you'll be fine!
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Old 06-11-2014, 05:56 AM   #16
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At this point I'm not sure of anything. Ask 6 "experts" and get 6 different answers, but this is what I'm using:

The PA code for Class A:

CLASS A (minimum age 18): Required to operate any combination of vehicles with a gross weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more, where the vehicle(s) being towed is/are in excess of 10,000 pounds. Example: Recreational Vehicle, when the towing vehicle is rated at 11,000 pounds and the vehicle towed is rated at 15,500 pounds (total combination weight of 26,500 pounds).

And PennDot's definition from the commercial drivers manual:

Gross vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR). the maximum GVW specified by the manufacturer for a single vehicle plus its load.

I doubt they use a different definition for commercial and noncommercial licenses. To me it seems clear. They mean the number on the sticker and not the number on the registration card.
I agree, ten different answers depending on who you ask... I am a traffic officer but I did not deal with non-commercial CDL's enough to make even a guess... Our Motor carrier guy emailed me this with your question as follows:

Dan,
Not sure if you have an answer or might know who to ask but here it goes...
Got a guy that has a F350 dually currently PA registered at 14,000lbs GVWR. He has a trailer (RV 5th wheel) he tows registered at 13,615lbs. This puts him at 27,615 and needing a non-commercial class A so I can tell (over 10,000lbs trailer and GCWR over 26,001). His question: if and or when he downgrades the registered weight of the truck to get bellow the 26,000 on the combo do you cite weight violations from the registered weight of the yellow sticker on the door? He was under the impression (and I have no idea) if he lowered the trucks GVWR it would not matter as the cops use the trucks sticker on the door (factory weight) for weight rating not what the truck is registered with PA as being able to carry. Thanks.

His response:

Pat,
he is not allowed to down register a vehicle to try to get away from the requirements. We look at both of the weights but the Manufactures weight rating on the door is the one we use. And if he downgrades his weight on the truck he will then most likely be overweight, it also sounds like he might want to register the vehicle in combination. Which would allow him to pull a trailer without being overweight.

Dan
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Old 06-11-2014, 09:39 AM   #17
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I agree, ten different answers depending on who you ask... I am a traffic officer but I did not deal with non-commercial CDL's enough to make even a guess... Our Motor carrier guy emailed me this with your question as follows:

Pat,
he is not allowed to down register a vehicle to try to get away from the requirements. We look at both of the weights but the Manufactures weight rating on the door is the one we use. And if he downgrades his weight on the truck he will then most likely be overweight, it also sounds like he might want to register the vehicle in combination. Which would allow him to pull a trailer without being overweight.

Dan
That's the same thing I've bee hearing. I know I also need the register the truck as a Class 8 instead of Class 5 because the trailer is over 10K.

I think changing campers is a done deal. We're going back to the dealer this afternoon to check it out again. For us, at our advanced age, (yes, we are a couple of the previously mentioned "old farts") it seems the easiest way to stay legal. Life is full of compromises, this is just one more.
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Old 06-11-2014, 09:49 AM   #18
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It's the same in Maryland a gross-combined weight greater than 26,001 lbs. requires a non-commercial class A license. I've emailed with the friendly gov't folks and they said it's definitely gross weights.

I have the same hassles- 1) finding a testing center that knows what they're doing for the non-commercial class A and 2) finding someone to go with me that has that class of license or higher.
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Old 06-11-2014, 09:56 AM   #19
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I would be careful on this because it sounds like an out for the insurance company if you were ever in an accident. Not saying they would, but you never know. Some might view an incorrectly registered vehicle combo as one that isn't registered at all. Beware the corporate greedmongers.
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Old 06-11-2014, 10:11 AM   #20
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I would be careful on this because it sounds like an out for the insurance company if you were ever in an accident. Not saying they would, but you never know. Some might view an incorrectly registered vehicle combo as one that isn't registered at all. Beware the corporate greedmongers.
That's just it. Most cops prob would not even know you needed a special license. I could see the insurance boning you though for sure!

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