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03-17-2013, 11:15 PM
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#1
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Grandpa's big Blue truck
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Gull Lake
Posts: 44
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Ecoboost HP vs. Torque (Moved from another thread)
The big thing with the Ecoboost towing is the torque in tow mod it pulls my trailer at 60mph in 6th gear@1800rpm it drops to 5th 2500rpm on small hills vary seldom 4th most v8s run much higher rpm on the same hills
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2016 Ford F150 screw Ecoboost max tow 6.5 bed
2016 Ford Edge
2012 Freedom Express 310 BHDS
Love camping with grandkids
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03-18-2013, 08:34 AM
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#2
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Grandpa's big Blue truck
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Gull Lake
Posts: 44
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I have a brother in law who has a F450 and a very large 5er it is a great combination but it sites most of the time he doesn't need it for a dd. I know the Ecoboost isn't a big diesel F350 or 3500 but it pulls a larger tt very well and is a fantastic dd if you think you are going to go bigger in the near future get the bigger truck it probably won't be your dd
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2016 Ford F150 screw Ecoboost max tow 6.5 bed
2016 Ford Edge
2012 Freedom Express 310 BHDS
Love camping with grandkids
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03-18-2013, 09:23 AM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jevanb
You hit any big hills and I bet you will be in 3rd or 2nd to keep the HP in its peak 365@5000RPM unless the trailer weights nothing.
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Have you driven an EcoBoost?
I'll take that bet.
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03-18-2013, 09:59 AM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,440
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bakken
Have you driven an EcoBoost?
I'll take that bet.
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no I haven`t.. but i have towed with lots of different types of gas and diesels some with larger gears and more HP then a eco.. I would bet a few dollars that any large hills say 6% and you will be on the redline, because it take HP to keep the speed and the eco is making peak @5k not 2800, put on a load cell dyno and you will see, or try to climb 4-6% with a 7000# camper and maintain 65mph. I believe it is a great engine but it also has its limitations that is why Ford sells the SD with the diesel..
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2012 Wildcat 344QB
06 LBZ ,CC 4x
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03-18-2013, 12:03 PM
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#5
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Grandpa's big Blue truck
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Gull Lake
Posts: 44
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I have pull steep hill 6% with my truck and trailer 4th gear and can easily do it I am a truck driver have pulled super b (30 wheels 138000 lbs) all over Canada 40% in British Columbia so I know what I am talking about the Ecoboost isn't a diesel but it is amazing
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03-18-2013, 12:48 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jevanb
I would bet a few dollars that any large hills say 6% and you will be on the redline, because it take HP to keep the speed
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That's a common misconception. It is torque, not horsepower, that is important when pulling. My diesel doesn't have much for horsepower, but lots of torque.
So, look again at the chart on your post. See that torque curve?
And rather than speculate, listen to those who pull with an EcoBoost. Every one is more than happy. Nuff said.
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03-18-2013, 01:34 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,440
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bakken
That's a common misconception. It is torque, not horsepower, that is important when pulling.
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no it is not... as much as I want to believe, it is not TQ
TQ*RPM/5252=HP
Just look at the equation and work with it and you tell me which is more important.
TQ is twisting force but NO WORK IS BEING DONE. it gets you moving but that is it...
Once you incorporate the RPM component you are then doing work over a period of time.
You don't go faster from A to B with more twisting force. You go faster from A to B by doing MORE WORK.
Why do you think all ET calculators use HP as the primary variable to determine ET and MPH?
I though your way once but I was schooled and now I know otherwise..
__________________
2012 Wildcat 344QB
06 LBZ ,CC 4x
lots of mods
Superglide
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03-18-2013, 02:19 PM
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#8
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daydreaming about camping
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: KC area
Posts: 1,404
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jevanb
no it is not... as much as I want to believe, it is not TQ
TQ*RPM/5252=HP
Just look at the equation and work with it and you tell me which is more important.
TQ is twisting force but NO WORK IS BEING DONE. it gets you moving but that is it...
Once you incorporate the RPM component you are then doing work over a period of time.
You don't go faster from A to B with more twisting force. You go faster from A to B by doing MORE WORK.
Why do you think all ET calculators use HP as the primary variable to determine ET and MPH?
I though your way once but I was schooled and now I know otherwise..
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well sort of- but not exactly.
Maybe this will help.
To move XXXX lbs of weight (assuming static resistance) will take YYY horsepower at QQ speed.
Now think about the HP and TQ curve charts for every engine you have ever seen. they are obviously not constant.
So you need not only a specific amount of HP at a specific speed, but a specific engine RPM to develop that specific HP to maintain that specific speed.
TQ is better expressed in the engines ability to get (quickly) to that specific RPM. In any situation, the more TQ you have, the more quickly you can get to the needed engine RPM to develop the needed HP.
In the real world, the amount of HP will vary greatly from second to second as a factor of resistance. The amount of engine torque determines how quickly your engine can get to the specific level of RPM needed for that momentary instance. As it is constantly changing, the quicker the engine can change to accommodate that load, the more responsive it feels.
That is torque, not hp.
Truth is, you can move huge amounts of weight with very little hp, but as the resistance builds the amount of hp changes very quickly. in order to bring that hp online that quickly, you need an awful lot of torque.
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2013 Coachmen Freedom Express 320BHDS pulled by a 2005 F250 King Ranch CC
A rainy day camping is better than a sunny day at work.
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03-18-2013, 04:07 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jevanb
no it is not... as much as I want to believe, it is not TQ
TQ*RPM/5252=HP
I though your way once but I was schooled and now I know otherwise..
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If it is a simple linear relationship, how come the torque and HP curves are not related in a linear fashion?
As for the EcoBoost, since it develops maximum torque at 3000 rpm, increasing the rpm does not increase the pulling power. And that is why it doesn't have to downshift and rev the snot out of the engine, as will other gas engines with a torque curve that does not rise as quickly.
Oh and by the way, please refrain from making inflamatory comments. Thanks a bunch.
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03-18-2013, 05:38 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Komoka Ontario
Posts: 2,680
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Try this, it helps explain it in simple terms.
Torque potential is translated to real-world applications through the vehicle's transmission and axles, specifically the axle differentials. The way these units are geared determines how the horsepower is translated to torque.
To understand this, think of the difference between and race car and a tractor. The race car develops an enormous amount of horsepower, but the torque is used for speed through gearing. There's not a lot of work needed, in a relative sense, to push a race car forward, so less work is accomplished, leaving more power for speed.
A tractor, on the other hand, may have the same size engine producing the same amount of horsepower. That horsepower is harnessed for doing work through gearing. The tractor can't reach high speeds, but it can pull and push huge amounts of weight.
Next time you see a vehicle advertised on television, think about what it means when they talk about horsepower and torque. There's a relationship between the two -- they can't exist without each other, but they stand for very different aspects of making a car or truck work.
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"Well that didn't go as expected"
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03-18-2013, 07:04 PM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,137
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Physics is cool!!!
Although it can be difficult to grasp.
I've seen a loaded dump truck almost lift a front tire off the street when it launched. Torque?
I had a Rat engine in a 1972 Blazer that could lift the front end. Torque?
My current truck cannot snap me off the line.
However, it will pull our TT up a hill at 60 mph when it spins at about 6 grand. Horsies?
Torque converters and tranny gearing also play a big part in towing/speed/etc.
A low stall TC will grab the low end grunt when it is there. A high stall TC ignores the low end altogether and makes use of the horsies when an engine gets all wrapped up in itself.
All one needs to do is watch and listen when vehicles accelerate from a stop. Many cars with small/low torque engines get a little bit wrapped up b4 they really go.
Torkie engines move a vehicle off the line without any drama.
It takes a tremendous amount of torkies to haul a load up a hill and that's why we pass so many trucks (semis) - it is not practical to run a truck with the torkies of a locomotive on the road, so they slow down.
They have neither the torks nor the HP to get to the top at speed.
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FOR SALE 2014 BOSS 6.2L F350
2012 Surveyor SV264
NW Oregon
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03-18-2013, 08:15 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,219
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There is no arguing the physics here. HP is calculated using RPM and TQ. Do the simple math on the TQ/HP chart shown above. Do that at 2000/3000/4000/5000 RPM's using the TQ values and you will see the HP on the graph is your calculated number. It is that simple. Of course the engine is going to generate more power at 4000 RPM's than 3000 RPM's. if it needs the power it will downshift, if it doesn't it won't.
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2011 Flagstaff 831FKBSS
2010 F250 4X4 5.4L 3.73 LS
EQUALIZER E4 1200/12000
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03-20-2013, 08:14 PM
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#13
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
Posts: 3,365
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We towed out 5,500 lb RV travel trailer 3,000 miles last year from MN to the Gulf Coast and back with our Ecoboost. We got 11 mpg towing at 60 mph. It rarely needed to shift out of 6th gear; even in the hills. (3.73's) We saw 4th gear twice on an extremely steep and long hill (same hill both ways). It is a 3.5 liter engine with 420 lbs of torque; max torque at 2,500; 90% available at 1,800 rpm.
IMO, it is the equivalent of a small displacement diesel; but with more HP, less maintenance, and cheaper fuel; extremely quiet. Remember it is only 3.5 liters. Double that to 7.0 liters, like many of the big diesels, and you would be looking at 840 lbs of torque.
It really is a unique gasoline engine for towing and it works great. It's biggest limitation is probably the "1/2 ton" chassis. Payload can limit its capability although there is a HD payload option on some configurations.
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2021 F350 Lariat 7.3 4X4 w 4.30s, 2018 Wildcat 29RLX
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03-20-2013, 09:02 PM
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#14
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Grandpa's big Blue truck
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Gull Lake
Posts: 44
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X2
__________________
2016 Ford F150 screw Ecoboost max tow 6.5 bed
2016 Ford Edge
2012 Freedom Express 310 BHDS
Love camping with grandkids
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03-20-2013, 09:21 PM
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#15
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Mod free 5er
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Concord, NC
Posts: 24,702
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jevanb
no it is not... as much as I want to believe, it is not TQ
TQ*RPM/5252=HP
Just look at the equation and work with it and you tell me which is more important.
TQ is twisting force but NO WORK IS BEING DONE. it gets you moving but that is it...
Once you incorporate the RPM component you are then doing work over a period of time.
You don't go faster from A to B with more twisting force. You go faster from A to B by doing MORE WORK.
Why do you think all ET calculators use HP as the primary variable to determine ET and MPH?
I though your way once but I was schooled and now I know otherwise..
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The calculation for work has nothing to do with speed or time. Work=Force X distance
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