EPA... the End of Tuners?

[dwaynerz]

seems how california goes, so goes the nation. thanks california.

[Dave_Monica]

An interesting discussion for sure.

The achievements the auto industry have made in lowing emissions, increasing power and improving fuel mileage were nothing more than a pipe dreams even 10 years ago. The technology will continue to find improvement in all three areas.

On the other hand, the attitude that vehicle emission controls are for others, not me is the very reason that federal manatory testing will most likely be implemented.

Dave

[grayfox]

Even electric dirt bikes for racing are in the works or on the market... Honda maybe?

[F and E Damp]

I've often wondered whether outfits like Banks and Brazels go through the EPA emissions qualification testing that the vehicle manufacturers have to do. I'd be surprised if they could afford to.

Since the vast majority of RVs do less than 6000 miles a season (we probably only do 4000 on average) why couldn't the EPA give us a break? Then again, I view my rig as a live-aboard 32' box truck, and I don't expect to be able to blow Ferraris into the weeds, so I'm not into perfomance additions.

I'm quite happy with its lumbering performance and marginal handling. I'd rather spend my money on gas and CG fees than trying to convert it into a dragster or a NASCAR competitor!

For those that want to spend the money with the "performance enhancers", that's your choice. I'd be sorry to see Brazel's and Banks and others in that business get shot down by the "cleanie greenies". There aren't enough RV miles driven each year to make a difference.

[SaskCampers]

Originally Posted by ttrost65

While I've had my fair share of "dirty" trucks, with the power the new diesels are delivering, I don't see a need to dump a huge black cloud just to say, "look at me" I cringe every time I see some high school kid "roll coal". My honest opion, they should be fined. My truck produces 400hp of clean diesel power. I also like the fact that I don't have any strong diesel odor to the exhaust, unlike some that will actually make your eyes water going down the road. Not knocking, those with tuners that are responsible in using them, but I see way too many misused just so they can put everyone in a black cloud of smoke. They can't outlaw that soon enough.

Now the flood gates are open.

It's not just the high school kids. Most of the cowboy attitudes around here are oil field workers with more money than brains. And nothing pi$$e$ me off more than those fools with their new jacked up trucks whistling and rattling away and you are sitting beside them and they hammer them at a light and fill your car with that black crap and stench thinking they are cool. I would love to catch one and stuff those 6 inch exhausts where they will never find them again. At least the harleys are only loud.

[MillerTime]

X2. I hate seeing smoke roll.

[stevengb]

"Those laws are for the other guy" attitude is why things get tougher on us. I own an unchipped Ford diesel that has more power than I can imagine needing. Thick black smoke and ridiculous engine decibels is a direct assault on mine and my families rights as well as everyone else around. Hater if you like but I'd fine the hell out of anyone that thinks they are exempt of those laws and regs.

[ng2951]

Frankly I don't really care that much. Usually testosteron has lot to do with this. Chippers reduce reliability like the super thin wheels do.

I figure it going to take a lot of money out of their pockets and they will bother me less.

The real problem is a bureaucracy that once it solves the problem it was charged with, then decides it has to do more so they won't close their department. Their only limit is when they hit the lint in your pockets.

The good news is they found an outlet for all that pig urine...

[abjb]

Originally Posted by Dave_Monica

An interesting discussion for sure.

The achievements the auto industry have made in lowing emissions, increasing power and improving fuel mileage were nothing more than a pipe dreams even 10 years ago. The technology will continue to find improvement in all three areas.

On the other hand, the attitude that vehicle emission controls are for others, not me is the very reason that federal manatory testing will most likely be implemented.

Dave

X2

Remember when we had to change our oil every 3000 miles, it looked like tar and gas motors were pretty much worn out at 100,000 miles.

I’m sure the EPA didn’t mean to but they did do a good job.
You don’t really think the BIG 3 would have ever developed a working fuel injection system…DO YOU?

Confession: I sure wish I had kept (BIG $$$) all those catalytic converters I cut off in the 70’s and 80’s.

ab&jb

[dwaynerz]

chevrolet developed a working fuel injection system as early as 1957. all before the epa was ever thought of. it wasnt as reliable as it is today, but it was available.

[abjb]

Originally Posted by dwaynerz

chevrolet developed a working fuel injection system as early as 1957. all before the epa was ever thought of. it wasnt as reliable as it is today, but it was available.

My 72 Porsche 914 had injection.

I put it (the injection system ) in a trash bag and put Webers on.

ab&jb

[dwaynerz]

bet you wish you had it back now, as im sure they bring big bucks. especially from the restoration crowd. the go fast crowd probably not so much.

[ChooChooMan74]

Originally Posted by f1100turbo

2 stroke snowmobiles !
what about 24 cylinder trains rolling coal by my house every 8 minutes !
"hauling it as well"

prostock diesel tractors ........... now theres some smoke COME ON !

Where are the 24 cylinder trains? I would love more power. Then again, our 12 and 16 4400hp locos can't stick to the railroad during the fall foliage.

As for this topic, I see the prices for pre-dpf trucks holding strong, and maybe someone marketing a performance dpf that meets epa standards, does clog and go into regeneration mode, and helps the engine breathe better.

[ng2951]

...You don’t really think the BIG 3 would have ever developed a working fuel injection system…DO YOU?...

Yes they would have. Control technology was in its infancy then and it takes quite a while before you get it all to work right.

Detroit was also competing in a world market too. If foreign manufacturers were more in tune with what both the world and domestic customers wanted then Detroit lost market share. Do you think the EPA conspired to make the Camry one of the top selling cars in the US?

Not only that the big vehicles where America shines were the beneficaries of this technology too. Those 3/4 and 1 ton diesels are made even more reliable and efficient due to this exotic hardware.

[Len & Cheri]

There are a lot of people that don't get a tuner to "roll coal". Tuners provide:

Increased power
Increased MPG
Increased reliabilty

The stresses the DPF and EGR place on the engine contributes to reduced engine longevity. Removing the DPR and EGR will make your diesel engine last longer, provided you don't treat your vehicle like a race car.

[F and E Damp]

The coal trains running in our area have four or five locos coupled together and the trains are 100 cars long. They're hauling Montana coal to Vancouver BC to be shipped to China.

There's talk of a new coal export facility in Ferndale, WA that will increase the coal train count to 20 a day, full going north and empty coming back, for a total of 40/day.

We're also getting an increase in trains of oil cars (60 cars long) from 2 a day to 8 a day to the refineries in Anacortes and a similar increase to the Shell refinery in Ferndale. These trains all go through Mount Vernon and Burlington where there are maybe 15 grade crossings.

BTW, the old Chevy fuel injection was for performance, rather than emissions and was similar mechanical technology to that used in diesels. The French car maker, Peugoet, had MFI on its family cars back in the 1960s, as did Mercedes on the 300SL.

[grayfox]

FYI... interesting stuff.

http://secondchancegarage.com/public...n.cfm:trink39:

[TURBS]

Originally Posted by grayfox

FYI... interesting stuff.

http://secondchancegarage.com/public/fuel-injection.cfm

Link doesn't werk?

[grayfox]

Originally Posted by f1100turbo

Link doesn't werk?

Try this one, it opened for me.

A Short History Of Fuel Injection

[dwaynerz]

it may have been for performance back in the 50's and for emissions now days, but it also had the side benefit of increased performance currently. and who doesnt like reliable performance? no carbs to fiddle with, no solid lifters to mess with constantly.

as far as our oil burners go, somebody will find away to work with the rules/regs like they did for gas motors and everybody will be happy. you know there is more in these motors than what the factory tells us, so they can bump the power up year to year and tell us its newer, more powerful so they can sell more trucks.

personally, i am happy with my 08 duramax, stock as the day it left the factory. however, i see an intake and exhaust shortly after the warrenty runs out.