Excessive Pin Weight for 1/2 Ton ??

[nomad297]

Originally Posted by Total Loss

This is the only "1/2" ton I would tow a fifth with. They do make them.
My old 04 F150 with a 10 3/4 rear end and a 3000 lb payload.
That truck drove very nice with or without a load.
I would put my Rzr in the bed and forget it was there.

It looks squatted in the rear to me.

Bruce

[B and B]

Back to topic.

The dealers that claim half ton towable are the real crooks here. They claim certain things that are not true.If the RVDA would have some teeth and force dealers to sell truthfully that would go a long way to prevent overloaded half ton pickups.
At the Toronto RV show this past weekend I checked the GVWR on several half ton towable claims. I saw 12,500 lbs, 11,600 lbs, 10,500 lbs as some weights. The top 2 are a no go, we all know you say you wont load it up but people do.

The OP can tow with his truck, should he? That is his decision but many have provided reasons why he shouldn't.

If the DOT gets educated properly on the RV industry and what can tow this or that enforcement can take place. This should also include safety chains and weight distribution hitches. Until they know enough to enforce the rules it should be hands off.

[Total Loss]

Originally Posted by TURBS

What? 3000 lb payload on a f150?


TURBS
2008 duramax
2015 columbus 320RS
2015 camping "31 nights"

9100 GVWR 4x4 with a plow front end.
Heaviest 1/2 you will find.
Actually it was built like the old F250 that had the 150 front section.
It was F150 from the cab forward, F250 from the cab rearward.
And notice the rear axle placement- not good turning radius though.
Correct on the 7 lug.

It was a great truck.
Bought if used for 13k, sold it 7 years later for 12,500.
First person that saw it bought it cash on the spot.

[DDC]

Originally Posted by B and B

In my case the derated F 250 is about licencing and need for annual inspections as a truck over 10,000 lbs. My truck is equipped same as a F350 except 2 inch blocks, springs, diff etc are the same

Hey Brian what does your sticker cost, I got the renewal in and it is $185.00 is that the same as yours?

[Total Loss]

Originally Posted by nomad297

It looks squatted in the rear to me.

Bruce

I had the front lifted 1.5 inches.
With the Rzr- it would ride just about level.
I also had air bags for heavier loads.

[dustman_stx]

Originally Posted by Kenny kustom

Right. So what's a good way to increase revenue?
Hand out overweight tickets.


2008 F350 CCSB V10
2016 Sabre 36QBOK

And we will now wait for your evidence that DOT writes tickets for exceeding a manufacturers label. Ample evidence suggests that DOT is NOT concerned with recreational drivers but rather focuses on commercial haulers where the law is very explicit. Once again, my original point was to show that an increase on the sticker doesn't necessarily translate to an actual structural change resulting in a more safe TV. I actually camped right next to a retired LEO that worked as a DOT safety inspector that was clearly overloaded!!!!(1/2 ton Chevy loaded DOWN with tools in the bed hauling a large Open Range TT)

[Kenny kustom]

Ok.
Right from the horses mouth..
Im sitting out front the local Rcmp office, I talked to them.
It is under the Canadian highway traffic act.
Going over gvwr can net you a fine starting at $73 up to $2500.
Rcmp can direct you to a weigh station, and follow you there to check your weights.


2008 F350 CCSB V10
2016 Sabre 36QBOK

[dustman_stx]

Originally Posted by Kenny kustom

Ok.
Right from the horses mouth..
Im sitting out front the local Rcmp office, I talked to them.
It is under the Canadian highway traffic act.
Going over gvwr can net you a fine starting at $73 up to $2500.
Rcmp can direct you to a weigh station, and follow you there to check your weights.


2008 F350 CCSB V10
2016 Sabre 36QBOK

In the states, you could write tickets ALL DAY LONG at the entrance to any campground, yet I've never seen nor heard of a single person being fined. I'd venture that probably at least 50% of all rigs I've ever encountered were over the TV GVWR. Like I stated earlier, I just upgraded my TV and don't advocate severely overloading a TV. But I've got enough sense to know that there are WAY too many variables when towing to say that a number on a door is THE point where you instantly go from 100% safe to completely unsafe. Especially when that number can be different on identical trucks.

[Kenny kustom]

Originally Posted by dustman_stx

You're in Canada. That explains it. In the states, you could write tickets ALL DAY LONG at the entrance to any campground, yet I've never seen nor heard of a single person being fined. I'd venture that probably at least 50% of all rigs I've ever encountered were over the TV GVWR. Like I stated earlier, I just upgraded my TV and don't advocate severely overloading a TV. But I've got enough sense to know that there are WAY too many variables when towing to say that a number on a door is THE point where you instantly go from 100% safe to completely unsafe. Especially when that number can be different on identical trucks.

Oh I 100% agree. The truck isn't going to blow up and kill a bus load of nuns, if I go a pound over gross.

Just stating the legal side of it.

I thought in " sue everybody" USA, most people would be more concerned with going over gross....?


2008 F350 CCSB V10
2016 Sabre 36QBOK

[B and B]

Originally Posted by DDC

Hey Brian what does your sticker cost, I got the renewal in and it is $185.00 is that the same as yours?

Don

Mine was over $200, that might include the transfer fee. I will know more in February. I had a choice of derated at 8500 I believe or full at 9,900 lbs. I opted for the max possible.

[B and B]

Originally Posted by Kenny kustom

Ok.
Right from the horses mouth..
Im sitting out front the local Rcmp office, I talked to them.
It is under the Canadian highway traffic act.
Going over gvwr can net you a fine starting at $73 up to $2500.
Rcmp can direct you to a weigh station, and follow you there to check your weights.


2008 F350 CCSB V10
2016 Sabre 36QBOK

For our southern Neighbours-

RCMP is the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. Most do not drive horses any longer except on Parade or at large events and festivals. They function in most provinces as the Police authority above the local county or city Police. In Ontario we have a third level Ontario Provincial Police and QPP in Quebec. Many native areas have there own police force as well.

[dustman_stx]

Originally Posted by Kenny kustom

Oh I 100% agree. The truck isn't going to blow up and kill a bus load of nuns, if I go a pound over gross.

Just stating the legal side of it.

I thought in " sue everybody" USA, most people would be more concerned with going over gross....?


2008 F350 CCSB V10
2016 Sabre 36QBOK

I do agree that we have a major issue with being "sue happy" down here. I think you would have an issue if you were severely overloaded, as in people were gawking as you went down the road and multiple witnesses testified that you looked completely unsafe as you travelled. But exceeding the sticker would be hard to prove after an accident- unless, once again, severe. Simply shifting things around in your camper can change how much weight is on the TV. Fuel level can as well…. How much passengers weighed…. The LEO I mentioned actually spoke of that and his statement was- how would you get the pieces back where they were and who is gonna weigh a wrecked vehicle?

[CWSWine]

Originally Posted by B and B

In my case the derated F 250 is about licencing and need for annual inspections as a truck over 10,000 lbs. My truck is equipped same as a F350 except 2 inch blocks, springs, diff etc are the same

Here is a interesting question - Why do they make F250 when anything more that 10,000 lbs on F350 is option and if you order a standard F350 you get a 10,000 lbs rating?

[CWSWine]

Originally Posted by dustman_stx

The LEO I mentioned actually spoke of that and his statement was- how would you get the pieces back where they were and who is gonna weigh a wrecked vehicle?

If I was the lawyer I would produce the spec from the RV stating the max weight of the RV and specs from the truck and that the max weight of the RV exceed the truck specs. Then it would be up to the RVer to prove that he wasn't at the those weights. Remember you are working with a judge/jury that probably are not RVers and you don't have to prove it just more than likely in a civil case.

If I was in the position of a fully load RV exceeding my truck specs I would have several scale weight tickets stating I was under that weight and that was advice from a retired judge. But that is me......

[dustman_stx]

Originally Posted by CWSWine

If I was the lawyer I would produce the spec from the RV stating the max weight of the RV and specs from the truck and that the max weight of the RV exceed the truck specs. Then it would be up to the RVer to prove that he wasn't at the those weights. Remember you are working with a judge/jury that probably are not RVers and you don't have to prove it just more than likely in a civil case.

If I was in the position of a fully load RV exceeding my truck specs I would have several scale weight tickets stating I was under that weight and that was advice from a retired judge. But that is me......

I thought it was guilty until proven innocent???? So if I hook up to a flatbed trailer that weighs 3K but it's capable of hauling 12K I'm somehow breaking the law if my truck can only carry 10K? I think I could blow that line of reasoning out of the water really quickly. I could also point out that a typical minivan has a CCC of ~1300 lbs. with seating for 7. Is it possible therefore to load 7 adults into a minivan and exceed GVWR? Can I now file a civil suit against ALL minivan drivers because it is "possible" that they overload their vehicle????

[CWSWine]

Originally Posted by dustman_stx

I thought it was guilty until proven innocent???? So if I hook up to a flatbed trailer that weighs 3K but it's capable of hauling 12K I'm somehow breaking the law if my truck can only carry 10K? I think I could blow that line of reasoning out of the water really quickly. I could also point out that a typical minivan has a CCC of ~1300 lbs. with seating for 7. Is it possible therefore to load 7 adults into a minivan and exceed GVWR? Can I now file a civil suit against ALL minivan drivers because it is "possible" that they overload their vehicle????

If they can convict someone of murder without a body they surely can prove some degree of fault for being over weight without a weight ticket saying it's was over weight...

[Kenny kustom]

Originally Posted by dustman_stx

I thought it was guilty until proven innocent???? So if I hook up to a flatbed trailer that weighs 3K but it's capable of hauling 12K I'm somehow breaking the law if my truck can only carry 10K? I think I could blow that line of reasoning out of the water really quickly. I could also point out that a typical minivan has a CCC of ~1300 lbs. with seating for 7. Is it possible therefore to load 7 adults into a minivan and exceed GVWR? Can I now file a civil suit against ALL minivan drivers because it is "possible" that they overload their vehicle????

I'll do you one better.
Manitoba has a class 3 license.
It's for tandem trucks, and trailers that have a gross over 10k.

If I hook up to the trailer, I need class 3.
Loaded or not.


2008 F350 CCSB V10
2016 Sabre 36QBOK

[The Big Toe]

Originally Posted by Kenny kustom

Ok.
Right from the horses mouth..
Im sitting out front the local Rcmp office, I talked to them.
It is under the Canadian highway traffic act.
Going over gvwr can net you a fine starting at $73 up to $2500.
Rcmp can direct you to a weigh station, and follow you there to check your weights.


2008 F350 CCSB V10
2016 Sabre 36QBOK

Since when do Sovereign States let automobile manufacturers write law for them?

Especially when you consider that half the figures the factory is giving you are, to put it nicely -- BS.

They just kinda make them up. One year Dodge makes up a towing figure out of thin air, the next year Generic Motors has to top it and then Ford insists they can out-tow them all.......

All of these claims without even touching the vehicle!!!

My old Expedition with a 300HP 5.4 was rated higher than my new(ish) F150...... And my F150 has a FAR superior engine, a much longer wheel base and, I suspect, better brakes. Not to mention the new 6R80 SelectShift is so far superior to the old 4 Speed I had in the Expo isn't even funny.

But the Expos was rated to tow 800lbs more.

Riddle me that......

But.... I guess that's Canada. The land of -- Whatever.

Not that Cops would ever lie to you. Heaven forbid. I'd like to see the Statute that Mountie was referring to.

And I suspect that any first year law student would destroy it.

End rant....

[Kenny kustom]

He showed me the traffic act.

I'll see if I can dig it up online and post it.
Not that I have to prove anything....
2008 F350 CCSB V10
2016 Sabre 36QBOK

[goduc]

Originally Posted by CWSWine

If I was the lawyer I would produce the spec from the RV stating the max weight of the RV and specs from the truck and that the max weight of the RV exceed the truck specs. Then it would be up to the RVer to prove that he wasn't at the those weights. Remember you are working with a judge/jury that probably are not RVers and you don't have to prove it just more than likely in a civil case.

If I was in the position of a fully load RV exceeding my truck specs I would have several scale weight tickets stating I was under that weight and that was advice from a retired judge. But that is me......

And if I were the lawyer for the accused I would ask for verification on weights. I would ask for the UVW and the GVW along with the GCVWR for the truck along with the RAWR of the truck. Then I would ask for the documents showing the total weight of all cargo in the 5er along with the loaded towing weight of the 5er and truck.
You can't use the GVW of the 5er as evidence because unless it's known what the total weight was that was loaded into the 5er then the 5er's GVW is meaningless.
With all this being said the results of the crash aren't even discussed. The 5er is either going to be totally destroyed as many seem to say or it's going to be intact and therefore easily weighed. All this speculation is meaningless because conditions after the accident aren't a known.

The 5er owner could hit a pedestrian or collide head on at 65mph rounding a corner in a wreck. One crash would be easy to determine the weight of the 5er, the other probably not.