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Old 05-27-2016, 05:26 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by lbrjet View Post
I would sure like to see the sticker for the 4 runner that has two different weights on it. That would be a new one for me. Or are you getting one from the vehicle (occupants and cargo) and the other one (payload) from the owners manual?


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BTW, I shared your doubt and surprise, which is why I asked Toyota twice whether the Occupants plus Cargo rating on the door jamb includes weight on the hitch. This means that those of us who tow a trailer need to question the numbers on the sticker before we trust them.
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Old 05-27-2016, 08:41 PM   #32
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Whoever you talked to was wrong, plain and simple. Happens all the time. Believe it if you want to.


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Old 05-27-2016, 09:47 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by lbrjet View Post
Whoever you talked to was wrong, plain and simple. Happens all the time. Believe it if you want to.


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No. I'd rather understand it than believe it just to be right.
My wife will be quite happy to tell you that I'm frequently wrong.

My impression is that the word 'cargo' means load in the vehicle and not on the hitch. If this is true, then the "Occupants and Cargo" rating on the door jamb sticker would not include weight on the hitch.

I just wrote a new message to Toyota at their website asking for clarification on this again.

Then I browsed around a little bit and stumbled on this from Nissan:
Maximum load limits :: Towing a trailer :: Technical and consumer information :: Nissan Pathfinder 2013-2016 Owner's Manual :: Nissan Pathfinder - NiSuv.com
Nissan seems to treat 'cargo' and weight on the hitch as two separate loads. So when they calculate total load to check GVWR, they add occupants and cargo *plus* tongue weight. Again, the door jamb sticker only says "occupants and cargo".

Dodge does the same thing in the fine print here:
2001 RAM Pickup Payload and Towing Charts

My wife's 4Runner is built on a truck frame, and the hitch receiver is attached to the frame and not to the (less rugged) body. So I can see a logical reason that the hitch might take more weight than the limit on Occupants and Cargo carried by the body. In the case of my F150, the two limits are equal.

If I hear back soon from Toyota, i'll post the response here.
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Old 05-28-2016, 07:01 AM   #34
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I know a guy that works in the Kansas City F150 plant and I ask him to ask the guy that does the weighting and this is what he came back with.

GVWR = Curb Weight - All Fluids Full - NO Diver or Passengers.

Tow Ratings = Curb Weight - All Fluids Full - One 154 lbs Driver

Camper that sits in the Bed = Curb Weight - All Fluids Full - 154 lbs person per seat belt.
Wow Not many people weigh 154 that are over 40
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Old 05-28-2016, 07:37 AM   #35
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I know a guy that works in the Kansas City F150 plant and I ask him to ask the guy that does the weighting and this is what he came back with.

GVWR = Curb Weight - All Fluids Full - NO Diver or Passengers.

Tow Ratings = Curb Weight - All Fluids Full - One 154 lbs Driver

Camper that sits in the Bed = Curb Weight - All Fluids Full - 154 lbs person per seat belt.
I wasn't confused but now I am. GVWR should be Gross Vehicle Weight Rating and should include all the weight that sits on the 4 or 6, tires... fluids + driver + passengers + cargo + tongue weight... total! Why would Ford mention Diver (sic) and Passengers in the same sentence as GVWR?
Where did they come up with 154# people? The CDC reports the average woman weights 166# and the average man 195#. I weighted 154# in the 9th grade.
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Old 05-28-2016, 08:33 AM   #36
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I wasn't confused but now I am. GVWR should be Gross Vehicle Weight Rating and should include all the weight that sits on the 4 or 6, tires... fluids + driver + passengers + cargo + tongue weight... total! Why would Ford mention Diver (sic) and Passengers in the same sentence as GVWR?
Where did they come up with 154# people? The CDC reports the average woman weights 166# and the average man 195#. I weighted 154# in the 9th grade.
WW
You are right what I listed as GVWR should of been how they figure Payload Ratings. GVWR is the max the truck should weigh fully loaded.
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Old 05-28-2016, 09:08 AM   #37
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gvwr is all the weight sitting on the road/tires/suspension.

So for my 1500 chevy my GVWR is 700lbs. Says the sticker on the door.
I've weighed it, no people or cargo, and it 5500lbs give or take 1/2 tank of gas a cup of coffee or two. We've added some things (bed liner, tonneau cover, etc).

So i've got 1500lbs to play with. And when I exceed that SOMETHING is being exceeded - but i've no idea what - tires, axles, brakes - maybe the stopping distance on some chart the feds NHTSA has...no clue what limits it.

I'm nearly 235lbs..wife 20 less, kids keep growing but 220 for the two of them and then the dog. 720 lbs for the living souls on board. And maybe 20-40 more if htey bring coats, electronics, firewood in the back, bike rack (in the back..bikes w/ camper go on teh camper but we need the rack once we get camped).

So 750lbs. That leaves 750..the hitch ball ass'y gotta go 40..so 700. With a 6600lb TT (again, weight is actual give or take...) and I want 10-15% on the tongue I'm at the limit if not over a bit.

Now it tows fine - took a 1000 mile trip last summer and the year before over the allegheny's and no issues, no white knuckling, etc. Am I wearing something out sooner than it might otherwise wear out? Now quite at 50k miles so I don't know (yet)

A 5vr has a heavier hitch ass'y and wants more weight on the Tv...so I don't see anyway all but the smallets 5vrs can be towed by a 1/2 ton truck within it's limits.
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Old 05-29-2016, 01:10 PM   #38
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Just look up the Ford Tow Guide for the year of your truck.


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Old 05-30-2016, 10:44 AM   #39
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It would apppear that your F150 Ecoboost is not configured correctly and is most probabaly missing the heavy duty tow package and differential ratio that moves complete payload up to 2300 LBs and tow capability to over 11,000 LBS+. With your current configuration it would be a struggle. I tow a Rockwood 8260 with 8,500 LBS loaded and have no problems and go over the Rockies and Appalachians on a regular basis. Look up the F150 configuration options on the Ford site and you can work it out yourself. Definetly the load story that you are being fed is incorrect.
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Old 05-31-2016, 11:42 AM   #40
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Also, notice the confusion added by Ford's wording in their towing guide. They separately add tongue weight to 'passengers and cargo'. So if the sticker on the door jamb has a limit on 'passengers and cargo', to be consistent tongue weight should not be included on that sticker.

This is a bag of worms.
the picture below is from my F-150 manual...
Clearly the picture indicates "cargo" on the door sticker = tongue weight + stuff in the truck/bed.


The tow guide for my year states:
Make sure vehicle payload (reduce by option weight) will accommodate trailer tongue (trailer king pin for fifth-wheel towing) load weight and weight of passengers and cargo added to towing vehicle.
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