f150 ecoboost towing again

[CWSWine]

Originally Posted by rr retired

depends on how truck is equipted. mine was special ordered. has 2605 payload. 11.300 towing. 3.5 eco boosts is more than enough for the weight. more payload than some f250s trucks are not all alike.

That's true my Chevy 25000HD Diesel had a 2475 payload and the Chevy dealer told me it could any 5th wheel out there. Of coarse, he was wrong.

With your yellow door tag saying 2605 payload and 200 lbs driver and 250lbs hitch that gives you a 5er weight according to Towing Planner of:

You're adding approximately 450 lbs. to the truck. You have 2,155 lbs. of payload capacity. Fifth wheels typically have 20% - 25% pin weight which gives you a maximum loaded camper weight of 8,620 - 10,775 lbs.

Towing Calculator based on Truck's Payload/CCC - Towing Planner

Which is respectable numbers and gives you huge selection of 5er and still be within specs and close to your 11,300 towing capacity which is rare when towing a 5er with even a 3/4 or 1 ton SRW.

[Gyrogearloose]

Originally Posted by ct_camper

I started to type "would you believe" but I'm sure you would. The Ford salesman is arguing with me about the load and the camper salesman is trying to get me to believe 10 ply tires, airbags and a turnoverball is all I need. Also, he can help me get a fantastic deal on an F250 if I still don't believe him.

Interesting. I got double teamed that way too on my (inadequately rated) Tundra. They tried to convince me that it would have more load capacity if I upgraded the tires and added booster springs. This voids the warranty and doesn't increase the load capacity unless done by a licensed vehicle builder who can correctly re-engineer the rest of the vehicle for the added load. There needs to be a significant legal liability to dealerships that use this sales tactic.

If the Ford salesman could do the math and physics, he probably wouldn't be selling trucks. Caveat emptor.

[lbrjet]

I would sure like to see the sticker for the 4 runner that has two different weights on it. That would be a new one for me. Or are you getting one from the vehicle (occupants and cargo) and the other one (payload) from the owners manual?


2010 F250 5.4L 3.73
2011 Flagstaff 831FKBSS
Equal-i-zer 4pt 12K

[MilCop4523]

You are correct. the extra springs and or air bags and LT tires vs P rated tires doesn't change the towing capacity.

it changes the handling and ability to carry the max rated for the truck set by the manufacturer without those things added or upgraded.

The ford technicians here stated it would do nothing to increase my max tow.
just slows down the sway we used to feel hauling the tag along with the Reese Dual Cam WDH, which it did.

[dalford]

Get the SRW F350. The F250 and 350 are the same size but the 350 has a beefier suspension. Keep more payload by going gas (~800lbs) but if you are going to be towing in the mountains you will love the diesel... LOL, I love spending other people's money, kinda feel like a liberal today...(just a joke). It is a wash on $ and will gain you about 1000lbs on cargo weight. May be a little stiffer ride unloaded but not by that much.

[MilCop4523]

You mean this one?

[Telstar]

When they want to sell you something they will tell you anything. The door plate is there for a reason. You also didn't mention which EcoBoost engine you have, the 2.7 is not a good tv, 3.5 is great and can pull 9,000 lbs with max tow option. Get the 250 for the 5er.

[TexasT]

I have experience with both the Ecoboost and the 6.7 L diesel and there is just no comparison when it comes to towing enjoyability. At first, I was happy with my Ecoboost except for it's unbelievably bad fuel economy, but towing power was pretty good. The first time I towed with it in some hills is when I realized it just wasn't ideal for towing heavy trailers. My F-250 on the other hand, is an absolute dream while towing; especially in the mountains. Besides climbing like a mountain goat, the engine brake and hill descent control blew my mind on how good they worked. Last year, I took my trailer on a 4300 mile round trip to Utah and encountered quite a few steep grade descents that were several miles long, and hardly ever used my brakes; it was fantastic!
If you plan on towing on mostly flat roads, then the Ecoboost might serve you okay, but if you plan on towing in the mountains, I highly recommend that you consider a diesel. Good luck!

[keith_h]

Originally Posted by Telstar

When they want to sell you something they will tell you anything. The door plate is there for a reason. You also didn't mention which EcoBoost engine you have, the 2.7 is not a good tv, 3.5 is great and can pull 9,000 lbs with max tow option. Get the 250 for the 5er.

Not all of us tow +10K lbs behemoths. The 2.7L is a fine tow vehicle for those of us with lighter trailers.

[Gyrogearloose]

Originally Posted by lbrjet

I would sure like to see the sticker for the 4 runner that has two different weights on it. That would be a new one for me. Or are you getting one from the vehicle (occupants and cargo) and the other one (payload) from the owners manual?


2010 F250 5.4L 3.73
2011 Flagstaff 831FKBSS
Equal-i-zer 4pt 12K

It's a 2012 4Runner Limited 4X4

The sticker on the door jamb says the GVWR is 6300lbs, and the Occupants and Cargo capacity is 1165lbs.

I weighed it with a full tank and found the payload capacity by subtracting weight from GVWR. This was two years ago and I don't have the weight receipt any more. As I remember the payload I calculated to be a couple hundred pounds more than the cargo rating on the door jamb, but less than the published payload of 1495lbs for the Limited 4X4 version. The only significant option on the vehicle is running boards that probably weigh less than 100lbs based on browsing that I did just now, so this is consistent.

Again, I called Toyota twice and questioned them on this. Both times I was told the Occupants and Cargo rating doesn't include weight on the hitch. The two things can be different.

[Gyrogearloose]

Originally Posted by lbrjet

I would sure like to see the sticker for the 4 runner that has two different weights on it. That would be a new one for me. Or are you getting one from the vehicle (occupants and cargo) and the other one (payload) from the owners manual?


2010 F250 5.4L 3.73
2011 Flagstaff 831FKBSS
Equal-i-zer 4pt 12K

BTW, I shared your doubt and surprise, which is why I asked Toyota twice whether the Occupants plus Cargo rating on the door jamb includes weight on the hitch. This means that those of us who tow a trailer need to question the numbers on the sticker before we trust them.

[lbrjet]

Whoever you talked to was wrong, plain and simple. Happens all the time. Believe it if you want to.


2010 F250 5.4L 3.73
2011 Flagstaff 831FKBSS
Equal-i-zer 4pt 12K

[Gyrogearloose]

Originally Posted by lbrjet

Whoever you talked to was wrong, plain and simple. Happens all the time. Believe it if you want to.


2010 F250 5.4L 3.73
2011 Flagstaff 831FKBSS
Equal-i-zer 4pt 12K

No. I'd rather understand it than believe it just to be right.
My wife will be quite happy to tell you that I'm frequently wrong.

My impression is that the word 'cargo' means load in the vehicle and not on the hitch. If this is true, then the "Occupants and Cargo" rating on the door jamb sticker would not include weight on the hitch.

I just wrote a new message to Toyota at their website asking for clarification on this again.

Then I browsed around a little bit and stumbled on this from Nissan:
Maximum load limits :: Towing a trailer :: Technical and consumer information :: Nissan Pathfinder 2013-2016 Owner's Manual :: Nissan Pathfinder - NiSuv.com
Nissan seems to treat 'cargo' and weight on the hitch as two separate loads. So when they calculate total load to check GVWR, they add occupants and cargo *plus* tongue weight. Again, the door jamb sticker only says "occupants and cargo".

Dodge does the same thing in the fine print here:
2001 RAM Pickup Payload and Towing Charts

My wife's 4Runner is built on a truck frame, and the hitch receiver is attached to the frame and not to the (less rugged) body. So I can see a logical reason that the hitch might take more weight than the limit on Occupants and Cargo carried by the body. In the case of my F150, the two limits are equal.

If I hear back soon from Toyota, i'll post the response here.

[bareftn]

Originally Posted by CWSWine

I know a guy that works in the Kansas City F150 plant and I ask him to ask the guy that does the weighting and this is what he came back with.

GVWR = Curb Weight - All Fluids Full - NO Diver or Passengers.

Tow Ratings = Curb Weight - All Fluids Full - One 154 lbs Driver

Camper that sits in the Bed = Curb Weight - All Fluids Full - 154 lbs person per seat belt.

Wow Not many people weigh 154 that are over 40

[WolfWhistle]

Originally Posted by CWSWine

I know a guy that works in the Kansas City F150 plant and I ask him to ask the guy that does the weighting and this is what he came back with.

GVWR = Curb Weight - All Fluids Full - NO Diver or Passengers.

Tow Ratings = Curb Weight - All Fluids Full - One 154 lbs Driver

Camper that sits in the Bed = Curb Weight - All Fluids Full - 154 lbs person per seat belt.

I wasn't confused but now I am. GVWR should be Gross Vehicle Weight Rating and should include all the weight that sits on the 4 or 6, tires... fluids + driver + passengers + cargo + tongue weight... total! Why would Ford mention Diver (sic) and Passengers in the same sentence as GVWR?
Where did they come up with 154# people? The CDC reports the average woman weights 166# and the average man 195#. I weighted 154# in the 9th grade.
WW

[CWSWine]

Originally Posted by WolfWhistle

I wasn't confused but now I am. GVWR should be Gross Vehicle Weight Rating and should include all the weight that sits on the 4 or 6, tires... fluids + driver + passengers + cargo + tongue weight... total! Why would Ford mention Diver (sic) and Passengers in the same sentence as GVWR?
Where did they come up with 154# people? The CDC reports the average woman weights 166# and the average man 195#. I weighted 154# in the 9th grade.
WW

You are right what I listed as GVWR should of been how they figure Payload Ratings. GVWR is the max the truck should weigh fully loaded.

[prof_fate]

gvwr is all the weight sitting on the road/tires/suspension.

So for my 1500 chevy my GVWR is 700lbs. Says the sticker on the door.
I've weighed it, no people or cargo, and it 5500lbs give or take 1/2 tank of gas a cup of coffee or two. We've added some things (bed liner, tonneau cover, etc).

So i've got 1500lbs to play with. And when I exceed that SOMETHING is being exceeded - but i've no idea what - tires, axles, brakes - maybe the stopping distance on some chart the feds NHTSA has...no clue what limits it.

I'm nearly 235lbs..wife 20 less, kids keep growing but 220 for the two of them and then the dog. 720 lbs for the living souls on board. And maybe 20-40 more if htey bring coats, electronics, firewood in the back, bike rack (in the back..bikes w/ camper go on teh camper but we need the rack once we get camped).

So 750lbs. That leaves 750..the hitch ball ass'y gotta go 40..so 700. With a 6600lb TT (again, weight is actual give or take...) and I want 10-15% on the tongue I'm at the limit if not over a bit.

Now it tows fine - took a 1000 mile trip last summer and the year before over the allegheny's and no issues, no white knuckling, etc. Am I wearing something out sooner than it might otherwise wear out? Now quite at 50k miles so I don't know (yet)

A 5vr has a heavier hitch ass'y and wants more weight on the Tv...so I don't see anyway all but the smallets 5vrs can be towed by a 1/2 ton truck within it's limits.

[larryscsi]

Just look up the Ford Tow Guide for the year of your truck.


Sent from my iPhone using Forest River Forums

[bruane]

It would apppear that your F150 Ecoboost is not configured correctly and is most probabaly missing the heavy duty tow package and differential ratio that moves complete payload up to 2300 LBs and tow capability to over 11,000 LBS+. With your current configuration it would be a struggle. I tow a Rockwood 8260 with 8,500 LBS loaded and have no problems and go over the Rockies and Appalachians on a regular basis. Look up the F150 configuration options on the Ford site and you can work it out yourself. Definetly the load story that you are being fed is incorrect.

[rvb]

Originally Posted by Gyrogearloose

Also, notice the confusion added by Ford's wording in their towing guide. They separately add tongue weight to 'passengers and cargo'. So if the sticker on the door jamb has a limit on 'passengers and cargo', to be consistent tongue weight should not be included on that sticker.

This is a bag of worms.

the picture below is from my F-150 manual...
Clearly the picture indicates "cargo" on the door sticker = tongue weight + stuff in the truck/bed.


The tow guide for my year states:
Make sure vehicle payload (reduce by option weight) will accommodate trailer tongue (trailer king pin for fifth-wheel towing) load weight and weight of passengers and cargo added to towing vehicle.