Fifth Wheel towing wF250SD diesel.

[doc73]

Originally Posted by Eagle2405

I would not go with anything else for GVWR than what the sticker says. I still don't understand why Ford has an option for a F350 with 9900 lbs GVWR starting in 2017. Why would we bother buying a 1 ton truck, If a 3/4 ton can have the same GVWR ? I still believe that the F350 with a GVWR of 11500 lbs is the safe option to tow a FW heavier than 10K. The extra leaf and the rear axle provide what we need to match the 11500 lbs GVWR...just a matter of safety.

Because in some states that puts into commercial truck size (over 10k). May require higher tags costs, special insurance or higher tax fees.

[doc73]

Originally Posted by itat

Website says the UVW is 12,665# so I’d guess it’ll be close to 14,000# loaded and ready to go camping. A SRW can probably handle it which is why I said “nothing less than a 1 ton SRW”, but I agree that a dually would be better.

It that is true I'd be fine with the srw. Not sure 250 or 350,depends on how heavy real world is.

[Eagle2405]

Originally Posted by doc73

Because in some states that puts into commercial truck size (over 10k). May require higher tags costs, special insurance or higher tax fees.

We have more or less the same rule in Canada, heavier trucks impact license fees and other obligations (yearly inspection etc). I had the exact same response from a Ford salesman concerning the 9900 lbs GVWR F 350 (2017+). But what can we trust ?
For the real world...my f250 (2012) was weighing 8487 lbs with a 10K GVWR there was 1512 lbs left for my FW, my actual truck (F350, 2012) weighs 8510 lbs with a GVWR of 11.5K this gives me 2990 lbs for my FW. Both trucks have the same trim and diesel engine.

[rlh1957]

Originally Posted by mxdad

I have a 2017 F250 similar to yours....mine is an XL/STX and, according to the yellow sticker, has about 2600 lbs of payload. I also have the 3.31 gears.

We have a 371MBH which (according to the mfr website) weighs about the same as the 373. Towed it like a dream. Our first trip home was about 100 miles over some mild hills, and the truck kept 6th gear most of the time. Stability was good, and the truck didn't squat hardly at all. In fact, the truck sat level with this load with about 6-7" of space between the bed and the nose of the camper. I ran down the road at 65 (with a side wind) and it was a relaxed experience.

The weight police will surely chime in, but I'm adding airbags this weekend because I know my pin weight will go up now that it's loaded. The weak link in the F250 are the rear springs....the rest of the truck is the same as the F350. While adding airbags don't change the legal rating of the truck, as long as you drive like a sane person, I bet you will be alright.

Thanks.

[mxdad]

Originally Posted by itat

mxdad, do you know of a website that provides accurate info on the differences between the F-250 and the F-350? I read comments all the time about there being little difference between them but I’d like to see an actual Ford web page or document that explains exactly which parts are different. I have a 2016 F-250 XLT with the snow plow and camper packages which has upgraded suspension parts but obviously it still has a sticker GVWR of 9900#.

There isn't a comprehensive site, per se. I did a lot of web snooping and looking around on forums to piece together some logical conclusions. The best thing that I found was a spec booklet from Ford (PM me if you want a copy...its a .pdf that is for 2018's, but it applies to 2017's as well) that went into some great detail....everything from wheel/tire capacity to spring deflection rates. It never comes out and says that the frames and such are the same, but after looking at them side by side and using common sense (why would Ford build 2 different truck frames/shackles/etc.?) you can see that they are the same.
For my rig, the most limiting factors in my setup are the wheels with a capacity of 3590# and tires, which are a load range of 123 and a capacity of 3415# each. I dug around and found that the Sterling axle is rated to around 9000# by itself, but is limited to 6340-7230# in an F250, depending on options. After reading all this, I would be comfortable putting 6700# on the rear axle, and 7K when I buy upgraded LR 125 tires. Will I ever put that much back there? No, because even if I have a pin weight of 3000, my axle weight will still be around 6K, if not less. And I know that airbags don't change the capacity on the sticker, but using a little critical thinking and research helped me arrive at my conclusion.

As best as I can tell (and has been previously stated), there are different trucks due to varying registration requirements. That is why you can buy an F350 with a GVWR of 10K that is the exact same as one with 11.5K...and people will tell you that because of the sticker in the door jam, it can only tow/haul as much as an F250.

[spock123]

Originally Posted by rlh1957

Fifth Wheel towing wit 2017 F250 SD 6.7diesel, w/ tow package.

Anyone towing a OF373RBS Open Range by Highland Ridge with F250SD 6.7 PowerStroke FX4 off road w/ tow package?

The factory literature say 16K for weight, but on two models we have seen the important manf sticker says they were in the 12.5K range.

So any experience or insight here? I'm new to 5th wheel towing, weights and setups.

I looked at Open Range website and it’s a great looking camper but in my opinion, which isn’t much you need a F350 to tow that much camper. It’s 41ft 6in long with a 2680 pin weight. If you like the camper the F250 will have no trouble pulling it, I have seen worse

[Brewhedd]

Originally Posted by spock123

I looked at Open Range website and it’s a great looking camper but in my opinion, which isn’t much you need a F350 to tow that much camper. It’s 41ft 6in long with a 2680 pin weight. If you like the camper the F250 will have no trouble pulling it, I have seen worse

IMO you need a 1 ton dually to pull a 40'+ 6 ton + billboard at highway speeds, if you want to feel anywhere near relaxed. Would I pull it with a 3/4 ton? Nope. There are those that would pull it with a 150 with a tow package though.

[goduc]

Originally Posted by Jack350

The F-350 and the F-250 have completely different rear axles. I think there is almost 1000 pounds of added capacity just in the rear axle. People do not buy the F-350 for the badges on the fender.

Per Pickuptrucks.com

Front axles for the Ford F-250 and Ford F-350 are the same Dana 60s with a 10.08-inch ring gear. The rear axle for the gas F-250 and F-350 along with lighter-duty diesel F-250s is a Ford 10.5-inch rear end. The F-250 diesel can be optioned with the standard diesel F-350 rear axle: the Dana M275, which offers a 10.8-inch ring gear. Available axle ratios are the same for the F-250 and F-350; choices include 3.73:1 and 4.30:1 for the gas, and 3.31:1 and 3.55:1 for the diesel.

Suspensions on the front of Ford's Super Duty trucks are the same, but the rear suspensions have differently tuned shocks and springs. The shocks for the F-350 are designed for the higher load capacity, while the F-250 shocks are tuned for a smoother ride when empty. Additionally, the F-350 offers standard auxiliary rear overload springs, while the F-250 can be optioned with them.

An F250 can be as stout as an F350 if ordered that way.

[paverdave]

Video on towing weights that might help you understand it better...Watch this video on YouTube.

[Jeffjeeptj]

My info is out of date. But, look at the Ford Body Builders Book. That will give you a tremendous amount of info on springs, axles, frame thicknesses. Couple that with the VIN tag on the door/pillar that will show the spring code etc. you can learn a lot of direct technical info.
When I bought my 1999 F-350 SRW Super Cab Diesel 4x4 Manual Trans 3.73, there was a F-250 srw/sc right next to it. Had the same assembly sticker on the front part of the frames. The f-250 came with smaller tires standard, but, could be optioned to put on 265/75-16 (same as f-350) and “helper springs” (std on F-350), etc. One could,option up a f250 to equal a 350, but, you would not get the GVW sticker to match. 8600 vs. 9900 at the time, iirc. The trailer tow guide will show similar GCWR, and trailer capacity., but, as the above posters have pointed out, things are not all equal.
My first 5th was a used 32’ Avion and the F-350 did well. I had to take out the 4” blocks in the rear and put in 2” also as stated above. About 2 years later, I traded up to a 36’ Teton at the PA RV show. I assured my wife the f350 was sfficient, but, when empty the f350 worked a lot harder. When we loaded to go,full time the f350 would not cut it. Rear tires at full pressure, flattened too much, rear springs were too far into the helpers, bump stops were too close. Had to be in next lower gear to climb the same hills.
Departed Quarryville and drove rather slowly and carefully to the south end of I-81 in Pa. The Ford dealer associated with the Teton dealer in PA on I-81 had a new 2004 F- 550 crew cab with a Fontaine Traveler body and some other options. No more struggles. With all our stuff, dog, and about 1/2 fuel, we went over the scales a bit over 27000 pounds. YMMV

[duby325]

Originally Posted by bikendan

The driver's weight is NOT a part of the Payload Capacity equation, it's a part of the Towing Capacity equation.

Payload Capacity considers the driver as one of the Occupants. It only exempts the weight of the full fuel tank.
Towing Capacity exempts the weight of the full tank AND a 150lb driver.
That's why the payload sticker says "Occupants and cargo should not exceed xxxxlbs".
rlh, you need to focus about the trailer's pin weight. The trailer's weight is secondary to that.
You'll always run out of payload capacity WAY before getting close to towing capacity.

By the way, we also found a Open Range that's perfect for us, if we ever decide to go bigger.

As an example for us when we looked at 5th wheels that our 2006 Ram 2500 with the 5.9L diesel could handle, we looked at the following:

Rockwood 8280WS PIN weight (we rounded up to 1,400LBS)
Fully Loaded (we rounded up to 10,000LBS)
based on the manufacture's provided information
Ram 2500 Towing capacity 12,900
Load capacity 2,495 (we rounded down for safety to 2,400)

As you see, deducting the pin from the load gave us 1,000 LBS. If you deduct the weight of the 5th wheel hitch, another 100 LBS, we have 900 to spare.

And with a fully loaded trailer, we have 2,900 LBS of wiggle room.

It is our opinion that it is best to have some wiggle room then to run up to and over the capacities of the TV.

[JohnD10]

Originally Posted by duby325

As you see, deducting the pin from the load gave us 1,000 LBS. If you deduct the weight of the 5th wheel hitch, another 100 LBS...

Unless you have an Anderson hitch, most of the 5th-wheel hitches that I know of are closer to 300 pounds.

[NMWildcat]

Originally Posted by JohnD10

Unless you have an Anderson hitch, most of the 5th-wheel hitches that I know of are closer to 300 pounds.

Don't know what fifth wheel hitches you are looking at, but most standard fiver hitches are right at 100#. My old 15k is even less.

https://www.towuniverse.com/Reese-16...kaAiMzEALw_wcB


Now if you are talking auto slider hitches, yep,some of those are pretty heavy.

[67L48]

Base F250 vs base F350 will show some differences between springs, shocks, and axles. When people add towing packages and the camper and/or snow plow options to the F250, these difference nearly evaporate. Spring rates, helper springs, and blocks all become identical when the F250 is set up to tow. Some disagreement about whether the F250 has one fewer leaf in the rear.

Years ago, there may have been some frame differences. That is no longer the case.

F250s that are set up to tow and have camper/snow option will be almost indistinguishable from an F350 ... and end up only about $700 cheaper.

With gas engines, I think the F250 has a slightly different transmission (6R100 vs 6R140). With diesel, both get the 6R140.

A large part of the difference is just the sticker -- F250s are de-rated. Not terribly dissimilar to the various de-ratings you can get on the F350 and other 1-tons. There are some cases where it makes sense for a buyer to want a 1-ton rated to 10,000, 11,400, or full 11,500 GVWR ratings. Same truck in those cases with different stickers.

For truck-specific questions like this, I highly recommend going to one of myriad Ford forums. Likewise, if people in the Ford Truck forum started asking a bunch of Forest River questions, I'd probably point them over here.

[JohnD10]

Originally Posted by NMWildcat

Don't know what fifth wheel hitches you are looking at, but most standard fiver hitches are right at 100#. My old 15k is even less.

https://www.towuniverse.com/Reese-16...kaAiMzEALw_wcB


Now if you are talking auto slider hitches, yep,some of those are pretty heavy.

My Reese 16K slider, according to their website, weighs 281 pounds.

Add the mounting rails and other hardware...

[NMWildcat]

Originally Posted by JohnD10

My Reese 16K slider, according to their website, weighs 281 pounds.

Add the mounting rails and other hardware...

So by saying 'most' fifth wheel hitches you know of are 300#, you are talking about yours......

I can say most seasoned fifth wheel pullers I know dont use sliders, they use standard fifth wheel hitches. 100#.

But this is like all these weight discussions with all the calculations using numbers that are really a compromise between engineers, lawyers, and marketing. It's a swag. If we all followed all the weight 'rules', especially the silly CC weight, we would all be pulling popups with semi tractors

[duby325]

Originally Posted by JohnD10

Unless you have an Anderson hitch, most of the 5th-wheel hitches that I know of are closer to 300 pounds.

We have the Reese Pro series 16K mounted. I've been looking for the specs online as our RV dealership installed it, to see what the total weight is. All I can say anecdotally, based on my observation being 59 year old, out of shape guy, it does not seem to be much over 100 LBS if I am able to remove it myself. As it is mounted in my truck, there are 4 pins holding it place to the bed. I am able to remove these pins to remove the full assembly to provide space in the bed if needed.

Mind you, it is much easier to have another party help me remove the hitch.

[walaby]

Originally Posted by duby325

As an example for us when we looked at 5th wheels that our 2006 Ram 2500 with the 5.9L diesel could handle, we looked at the following:

Rockwood 8280WS PIN weight (we rounded up to 1,400LBS)
Fully Loaded (we rounded up to 10,000LBS)
based on the manufacture's provided information
Ram 2500 Towing capacity 12,900
Load capacity 2,495 (we rounded down for safety to 2,400)

As you see, deducting the pin from the load gave us 1,000 LBS. If you deduct the weight of the 5th wheel hitch, another 100 LBS, we have 900 to spare.

And with a fully loaded trailer, we have 2,900 LBS of wiggle room.

It is our opinion that it is best to have some wiggle room then to run up to and over the capacities of the TV.

Maybe Im confused, but if the 5er estimated weight is 10,000 LBS, then the pin weight, loaded will probably be closer to 2000 lbs.


Add the 5er hitch, and passenger weight, and you'll probably be above cargo capacity.


You can't take dry pin weight and assume no change for a fully loaded trailer.


Maybe Im not reading what you're saying right.


Mike

[goduc]

Originally Posted by JohnD10

Unless you have an Anderson hitch, most of the 5th-wheel hitches that I know of are closer to 300 pounds.

My B&W Patriot 16K rail version is 147 lbs.

[LockeyKingCole]

I have a 2016 F-250 SD XLT with the 6.7L Diesel pulling a Forest River Wolfpack 325 Pack13 5th Wheel and used this document for my tow rating info. Hope this helps.

https://www.fleet.ford.com/resources...2016_LoRes.pdf