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Old 05-11-2014, 10:57 PM   #11
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Be careful trying to relocate too much weight to reduce your pin load.
Any pin load less than 15% will yield handling issues that may very well cause the accident you are trying to avoid. While 5th wheels "don't sway," they are talking about a properly loaded one. Too light a pin will cause excessive bounce, sway, and insufficient traction that can cause loss of control.

So, here is the thing. Does being over-gross by 1000 pounds mean you will crash the first time out? Of course not.

Does it mean the first pothole you hit will buckle the frame? No again.

What it does mean is that over time, you will stress the components of your tow vehicle beyond their design limit and eventually cause a shorter useful life than designed.

The problem of course is knowing when that might be. You really have no way of knowing. You most likely will sell "Old Chuck" before you break it.

Unless the guy you sell it to tows, he might get many more years out of that old truck. At least you can rationalize it that way.

What is factual is that at some unknown time in the future, that limiting component will fail due to accumulated stress, quicker than it would if you stayed within the factory's (or lawyer's if you prefer) limits.

Additionally, should you be involved in a serious or fatal accident that gets the "full treatment" by the crash investigators, you may find yourself on the short end of the stick should they determine your knowingly over loaded combination contributed to the fatality.

Your insurance company may write you a check for your policy limit and walk away letting you find your own representation and struggle with the legal suits.

Many here will tell you not to worry, but they won't be writing you any checks to help with your legal bills or send you a file baked in a cake.

Remember that tow rating is ONLY based on the engine, transmission, and rear end ratio. Nothing else. The same truck model, whether an F-250, F-350, F-350 DRW, or F450 with the same engine, transmission and rear end ratio will have near identical tow ratings. BUT - Look at the payload variance. The bigger the truck series, the larger pin load it can manage within that towing capacity.

The difference is in how much of the towed weight can be borne by the towing vehicle. There is that awesome bit of Tundra PR where it "tows" the space shuttle. Note that NONE of the shuttles considerable weight is actually ON the truck. There is an Ironman stunt where a guy pulls an aircraft with his teeth. NONE of the aircraft's weight is on HIS back either.

FYI, due to the crap I keep in the truck (which includes my Yamaha 3000 generator, spare 20# propane tank, a 2.5 gallon gas can for the generator, and two spare 5 gallon diesel cans), my family and dog, the maximum remaining payload of my GMC 2500HD Duramax/Alison limits me to about a 9200 pound 5th wheel even though the "tow rating" is over 15,000 pounds.

I am looking at a heavier camper due to some medical issues that will require a LOT of "non-camping" cargo in the 5th wheel. The model I am looking at weighs in at 12,000 pounds maximum (well within my tow rating).

However, nearly everything I have been used to carrying in the truck (except for the DW and dog) has to go. Looking at an empty bed (except for hitch) and minimal stuff in the truck to get the remaining payload (even at minimum pin ratio) close to my truck's max GVWR of 9200 pounds. Will need to buy another generator (most likely a Honda 2000i) that will fit in the camper. The Yamaha will not work if I increase the camper weight.

(Oh,I would like a link to your "brochure" that says an F250 and an F350 have the same GVWR. Not saying that you are wrong, just I would like to know. Why would anyone buy an F350 if that was so?)
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Old 05-12-2014, 08:42 AM   #12
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Here's the info from Ford.The SRW 250 and 350 GCWRs are the same.
2015 Ford Super Duty Towing Specifications
Engine with Automatic Transmission
6.2 L Gas V8
Axle Ratios GCVR
3.73 SRW 19,000
4.3 SRW 22,000
3.73 DRW 19,500
4.3 DRW 22,500
6.7L Power Stroke Turbo Diesel V8
Axle Ratios GCWR
3.31 SRW 23,500
3.55 SRW 23,500
3.73 DRW 31,900
4.3 DRW 450 40,000!
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Old 05-12-2014, 03:13 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBaron View Post
Here's the info from Ford.The SRW 250 and 350 GCWRs are the same.
2015 Ford Super Duty Towing Specifications
Engine with Automatic Transmission
6.2 L Gas V8
Axle Ratios GCVR
3.73 SRW 19,000
4.3 SRW 22,000
3.73 DRW 19,500
4.3 DRW 22,500
6.7L Power Stroke Turbo Diesel V8
Axle Ratios GCWR
3.31 SRW 23,500
3.55 SRW 23,500
3.73 DRW 31,900
4.3 DRW 450 40,000!
Yes, I understand the GCWR and Tow rating are the same (since they are based on drive train and not tow vehicle construction); the statement that the GVWR was the same threw me.
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Old 05-12-2014, 04:24 PM   #14
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A F250 GVWR is maxed at 10000. A F350 SRW GVWR starts at 10000 and maxes at 11500 depending on trim and options. A F350 maxes at 14000 with the DRW.
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Old 05-12-2014, 06:58 PM   #15
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"...the statement that the GVWR was the same threw me." It surprised me too!
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Old 05-12-2014, 07:04 PM   #16
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Thanks for hanging in there with me on this. Looks like herk was correct.(of course). The 350 GVWR is 1,200 more in my same body style and options. The rear axle weight rate is the same on both. I know for a fact that the 350 option when i ordered my truck was just the addition of the badge, and the springs for 80.00 @ cost. so with that said I can add a spring to increase my GVWR knowing this will NOT increase my rear GAWR. right? Below will be a shot of the book if i get it to load.
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Old 05-12-2014, 07:20 PM   #17
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Very nice response Herk! No judging, just the facts! Kudos.
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Old 05-12-2014, 07:37 PM   #18
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thats exactly what i wanted...no judgements just a good review of the info and give me anymore info i needed to make my own decision on what to do. No flames. I know many disagree with me towing 500-880 over my GVWR, at least i know know all my OTHER numbers are in the saftey specs. Again i wonder if more spring will help this.
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Old 05-13-2014, 07:19 AM   #19
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Air bags couldn't hurt, and you can take the pressure out when you aren't towing. I've seen others put in an anti-sway bar and HD shocks as well.
Guys like Herk (and many others) are invaluable!
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Old 05-13-2014, 07:26 AM   #20
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Big, Thanks, I have timbrens installed. Truck only drops 1 1/2 inches when loaded with RV even before timbrens were installed. I will probably be getting some help with the springs so I can increase my GVWR. Axle is fine. The ride is pretty darn good with the stock shocks.
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