Ford 2.7eco 4x4

[keith_h]

Originally Posted by MillerTime

Our shops (we have 6 independent collision centers and are building 2 more) have our sheet metal rate between $46 -50 an hour, aluminum is almost twice that and is in th $90+ range per hour. And we only have 1 shop out of the 6 that has the many thousands of dollars of dedicated aluminum equipment and its own repair area and the certification to repair the '15s and up.
Aluminum cracks and tears where steel doesn't for alot of the same damage.
It's a nightmare for collision damaged 2015+ ford owners right now..... better make sure you have an extra vehicle or several months of rental coverage!

But that's one of the differences. You don't repair on aluminum, you replace and the prices Ford is charging on the replacement parts puts it on par with repairing steel. Personally if I were in the body shop business I'd be looking to the aircraft industry for technicians as they've been fixing aluminum bodies for years. Ford might be one of the early adopters but sooner than later all of the other manufacturers will be doing similar things to lighten their vehicles.

It's a nightmare for any new model vehicle owner trying to get collision damage repaired. I've run into it on 1st year Mazda's and GM vehicles we've owned over the years. Heck it took over three weeks to get a part for my wife's CX5 after a deer jumped into her. At the time there was no after market manufacturer and the part had to come from the factory but because they were all on the production line we had to get in line. Like most cars or trucks the only real way to know what it fact or fiction is wait the few years for the various supply chains to sync up and look at longer term results. Some folks don't like being on the bleeding edge, others like me it doesn't bother.

[bob caldwell]

And the weight save'n is tremendous......with carbon fiber.......fastest accelerating vehicles are 100% body wise.

[keith_h]

Originally Posted by bob caldwell

And the weight save'n is tremendous......with carbon fiber.......fastest accelerating vehicles are 100% body wise.

I wouldn't mind carbon fiber at all. Not just for the weight savings but for the lower damage rate from small things like door dings and tree bumps. The only problem at the moment is cost but if enough manufacturers made a concerted effort to switch I would expect the cost to go down.

[MillerTime]

Originally Posted by Taranwanderer

Thanks for illustrating my point.

That said, I dig the idea of corrosion resistance, living in the northeast (where plain old rock salt just wasn't good enough, so we started using salt brine on the roads a few years ago, and body/frame rust has accelerated ever since.) I assume Ford's frame is still made of steel, and the body is aluminum bolted on? Anyone have any insight as to what happens where steel and aluminum are bolted together?

I like the idea of carbon fiber--lighter, stronger, and rust-free. It's just that initial cost that stings...

Aluminum corrodes pretty bad too! Its just white instead of brown. I've seen alot of the Lincoln navigators with white blistering rust popping up on hatches.
And yes on the new f150 bolts are only to be used 1 time and then scrapped. There is a special coating on the bolts that is damaged apon removal.
We have had to take '15 f150 classes to try to prep for all this but its going to be a real nightmare. I think ford really screwed up doing this. You have to loosen bolts multiple times while adjusting panels. There is going to probably be more corrosion issues because of the aluminum than was had with steel panels.
We'll see, but when it happens.....i called it! Lol!!!
(And yes they still use steel frames)

[bob caldwell]

Take an alum wheel to the coast and let it sit awhile....looks like cottage cheese grow'n on it!

[MillerTime]

Originally Posted by keith_h

But that's one of the differences. You don't repair on aluminum, you replace and the prices Ford is charging on the replacement parts puts it on par with repairing steel. Personally if I were in the body shop business I'd be looking to the aircraft industry for technicians as they've been fixing aluminum bodies for years. Ford might be one of the early adopters but sooner than later all of the other manufacturers will be doing similar things to lighten their vehicles.

It's a nightmare for any new model vehicle owner trying to get collision damage repaired. I've run into it on 1st year Mazda's and GM vehicles we've owned over the years. Heck it took over three weeks to get a part for my wife's CX5 after a deer jumped into her. At the time there was no after market manufacturer and the part had to come from the factory but because they were all on the production line we had to get in line. Like most cars or trucks the only real way to know what it fact or fiction is wait the few years for the various supply chains to sync up and look at longer term results. Some folks don't like being on the bleeding edge, others like me it doesn't bother.

Yep mazda sux to get parts for.
Air craft techs dont have a clue. You don't have wrecks in airplanes and fix them. We are close to tinker AFB and lots of friends and family work there on aircraft and other stuff. They know how to use a break and buck rivets!!!

Originally Posted by keith_h

I wouldn't mind carbon fiber at all. Not just for the weight savings but for the lower damage rate from small things like door dings and tree bumps. The only problem at the moment is cost but if enough manufacturers made a concerted effort to switch I would expect the cost to go down.

We have had carbon fiber on z06 and zr1 vettes for years. Your kidding your self if you think it doesnt damage easy, because it does. Its just these panels are about the thickness of a penny instead of plastic panels or smc/ fiberglass on the other vettes that are about 3/16" or so thick and weigh considerably more.
We had to have Z06 training to when they came out with carbon fiber panels. Essentially they are the same as fiberglass in most ways but stronger if the same thickness....but carbon fiber panels are thinner so about the same stength.

[bob caldwell]

Only time will tell where the market goes

[Homebrew]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nK2eXdaydqI

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[drittal]

Yikes

[Kenny kustom]

Looks good!! Lol


2016 Sabre 36QBOK
2015 Ram 3500 CUMMINS

[The Big Toe]

Manufacturers have been using all or part aluminum bodies for years. And years.

Including GM, BMW, Chrysler/Fiat, Acura, Mercedes and many, many more.

List of Car Manufacturers who use Aluminum Body Panels

Ford is taking it to another level domestically. In Europe, they've been doing it for years on higher end models. And some not-so-high-end models

And while I'm hardly a Europhile when it comes to cars, they know how to make them.

[The Big Toe]

Originally Posted by drittal

Yikes

The problem is not endemic in the EcoBoost. It is a concern/problem with ANY Direct Injection Engine. Or -- Can be a concern/problem.

BMW, Acura, Cadillac CTS, VW/Audi.....

It's Direct Injection, NOT the EcoBoost.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/n...ines/index.htm

And there's a LOT of DI Engines out there. A lot.

Ford claims to have fixed their problem. Time will tell.

If you've got an older one and you're worried about it, check into it and maybe get a quality catch-can. Maybe. Your call

Quality being the operative word.

I'm just plugging along in my 360HP, 380 lb-ft of torque, 5.0L Coyote V8.

[Homebrew]

Sent from my iPhone using Forest River Forums

[The Big Toe]

SilveradoSierra.com • 2014 and up owners!!! : Vortec 6200 6.2L V8

2014 and up owners!!!

The GM trucks from 2014 on are now Direct Injection and the intake valve coking issue now affects the V8's (where until now the ecotech 4L and the 3.6L V6's have been the biggest problem engines)......




....This is NOT a GM only issue, it affects every make/model of DI 4 stroke engine including motorcycles, outboards, and snowmobiles. Some more than others as you can see in this link of photos from techs all over the world:

[WolfWhistle]

I enjoyed the 4.7 vs 3.5 video; it sounds like the 4.7 is very capable within its limitations for weights, but for the right application it would fit so many situations. The unloaded 26 to 30 MPG sure is appealing. The price tags... not so much.

In the vid, they were pulling a trailer nearly at the max for the 4.7 and it sounded like the 'testers' liked it better than the 3.5, which was loaded 3000# under its max. I have to wonder if they were simply saying what they were paid to say. The 3.5 did have a higher gear ratio and ever option known to man and some I have never heard of. Did Ford go to aluminum so they could add more and more costly options? If so, Chevy and Ram will have to follow suit.

WW

[WolfWhistle]

The earlier Ford vs Chevy / Ram video only proves that the manufacturers HP claims are right. HP wins the race every time. Its science. HP is about work based on time; while torque is ignorant of time.

There is a torque war going on between manufacturers, which is being done to help sales, but is doing little to help performance. It would be better to give us a wider power band and not tune for peaks, but that doesn't sell.

This is much like the cubic inch wars back in the 1960s for those old enough to remember.
WW

[WolfWhistle]

If anyone is interested in what torque and HP essentially is and have it explained in simple terms, this site is quite good.
WW

Debunking Horsepower and Torque Myths

[The Big Toe]

Simply, Torque is how much work is being done and HP is how fast it's being done.

Plus, outside of ten-million-dollar dynamometers, Torque is measured and HP is estimated.

In our application, Torque rules.

In Formula 1........ Not so much. Of which, Ford Engines have won more F1 races than any other engine besides Ferrari...... And Ford isn't even in the series about half the time

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formul...e_manufacturer

Just an FYI

[Homebrew]

Originally Posted by The Big Toe

Simply, Torque is how much work is being done and HP is how fast it's being done.

Plus, outside of ten-million-dollar dynamometers, Torque is measured and HP is estimated.

In our application, Torque rules.

In Formula 1........ Not so much. Of which, Ford Engines have won more F1 races than any other engine besides Ferrari...... And Ford isn't even in the series about half the time

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formul...e_manufacturer

Just an FYI

Was the Ford engine a Ecoboost?


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[WolfWhistle]

Actually HP is a measurement of work. If I can lift an 80# bag of cement into a truck bed, that is like torque... my strength. How many bags I can load in a given amount of time into the truck is like HP... or work. Another analogy: we don't get paid for how strong we are (torque); we get paid for the work we do; using the strength to perform what we can accomplish using that strength (HP).
WW