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Old 08-07-2019, 07:52 PM   #1
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Frustration sizing TV and 5er.

I know this subject has been beat to death and Iíve read many posts here. When I look at the numbers I feel that Iím good to go. However I thought Iíd throw it out here to get some thoughts.
Currently have a Chevy 1500 and a TT. Due to unfortunate circumstances I have the means to buy a 5ver and a new TV. The Boss has decided on a trailer and Iím trying to decide on a truck to pull it. I ďTHINKĒ Iíve got it figured out but when I try to use any of the various calculators I find online I run into problems. I think itís due to incorrect inputs due to messing up values entered, or at least thatís my hope. It seems to me that thereís differing ways to describe the values to be used. Anyway, hereís some of the values Iíve come up with either from online literature or looking at ownerís manuals online. The TV is a 2019 Silverado 2500HD with a diesel. The 5er is a 2019 Rockwood 2889WSC that will get next year.
Trailer:
UVW 8709
CCC 2666
GVWR 11375
PIN WT 1706.25

Tow vehicle:
MAX TOWING 13500
MAX PAYLOAD 2513
FRONT AXLE GROSS WT RATING 5600
REAR AXLE GROSS WT RATING 6600
MAX GVWR 11350
MAX GCWR 25300
CURB WT 7467

PASSENGERS 365#


Calculated GVWR 9538
Calculated GCWR 20913


To ME it looks like things should work. Maybe I'm way off base in which case I'm sure someone will let me know.


thanks
Kirk
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Old 08-07-2019, 08:43 PM   #2
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you may be over on your payload once fully loaded.

Pin weights on 5ers are about %20 of GVWR of the trailer, which would put it at 2,275 at max pin weight.

might want to consider the 3500 if the payload rating matters to you.
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Old 08-07-2019, 08:48 PM   #3
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You.look ok to me. However, that pin weight is a killer.

Have you considered a 3500?

My F-350 Dually is actually cheaper on insurance than a comparable F-250. Cost difference is minimal.
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Old 08-07-2019, 08:56 PM   #4
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Max payload is just that....the MAX it can be.

Until you lay eyes on the actual yellow door sticker or weigh the truck itself, you'll never know what the real payload is. Optioned out, the truck could have a smaller payload than that and, as stated before, the pin weight could be up to 2275 pounds. Realistically, it could work, but there would likely be very little wiggle for adding gear and passengers in the truck.

Even a 3500 SRW would have a much larger payload and give you a generous buffer between the pin weight and payload....and likely at a very similar price.
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Old 08-07-2019, 09:47 PM   #5
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Appreciate the quick responses. I agree with what is being said about what the door sticker says. Some interesting things I found in doing research. I found two values on the Chevy website, 2513 and 3563. I also read the Chevy owner's manual as well as the diesel supplement in which they state that the max is 3000#.



As for the trailer, I calculated the value from FR and it works out to 15% which I used for my calculations. I used the FR max payload even though it says they include 60 gallons of water in their calculations which we NEVER do. On top of that, from our current TT, we are adding 1700# of STUFF where I used the 2666# in my example. I don't see where would add much if anything as we seem to have everything we need.


Again, I need to look at a truck to get the exact value. Really not looking to get into a 3500 unless I REALLY need to as this is also my daily driver. Please don't think that I'm going to ignore the advice I'm given and my mind is already made up.


Does any of this make sense?


Kirk
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Old 08-07-2019, 11:32 PM   #6
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Pin weight of the trailer when loaded will be around 2,000 lbs or a bit more. 365 lbs of passengers. Add at least 100 lbs for the hitch. Pets? Any wood in the bed? Any gear in the truck?

Most likely, you'll be over the payload. Some would argue that this doesn't really matter and 2500 = 3500. But, with that said, I'd encourage you to test drive the 3500. You may find no difference ... again due to the fact that the 3/4 ton diesels are so similar to the 1 ton diesels. F-250 Diesel HD Tow is $40 cheaper than a F-350 Diesel and I'd assume other brands are similar. So, price is sort of moot, too.

There may be reasons to prefer 3/4 ton over 1 ton. I can't imagine that driveability would be valid. Conventional wisdom that 1 tons are stiffer and less driveable is sort of outdated. Try it out.

(Oh, I'm talking about SRWs. DRWs are a different beast.)
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Old 08-08-2019, 03:23 AM   #7
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Everything looks good but I would based on your numbers make sure the truck had a number on the sticker on its door that that was the 2275 Max Pin weight + passenger and whatever you plan on having inside the truck and bed of the truck. That's how I bought my 2500 Diesel. PAYLOAD is the number that trips most people up while they are fine everywhere else. so size the truck adn validate what that sticker says as different models with different options can be vastly different. Best of luck in your search!
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Old 08-08-2019, 04:04 AM   #8
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I got hit by the Chevy payload data in their literature and website being wrong. I bought a 2018 2500 that was spec'd at 2803 lbs. Two weeks later when I went to pick up the trailer we found that the sticker on the door jamb actually said 2268 lbs. Pin weight for the new trailer was 2185 lbs.

To make a long and painful story short, we fought with GM and eventually 'traded' (added some money) and got a 3500 with a payload capacity of 3456 lbs. Some of the money also got us 4WD instead of 2WD, and a sunroof.

I would say that the two trucks towed similar on flat ground, but the 3500 in the mountains of NC pulled great. Never tried the 2500 on any grade.

Sooooo happy we have so much room in the payload capacity.

Go for a 3500.

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Old 08-08-2019, 05:30 AM   #9
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Neighbor just went from a 2004 Chevy Silverado 2500 Duramax extended cab to a 2014 GMC Sierra 2500HD Duramax with Crew Cab...(my old TV). He pulls a 2007 Montana, 38' long, 2000 pin weight, 14500 +/- scaled weight. He pulled out for the first time Sunday with the new TV on a 200 mile run. He called me when he arrived to tell me how much better my old TV did compared to his old TV. Pulled better, road better, handled better. I was there when he hooked up for first time and was amazed as the truck only squatted a 1/2" when he put the full weight of 5ver on it and that included a bed full of wood. He couldn't be happier.
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Old 08-08-2019, 09:39 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kirkp View Post
I know this subject has been beat to death and Iíve read many posts here. When I look at the numbers I feel that Iím good to go. However I thought Iíd throw it out here to get some thoughts.
Currently have a Chevy 1500 and a TT. Due to unfortunate circumstances I have the means to buy a 5ver and a new TV. The Boss has decided on a trailer and Iím trying to decide on a truck to pull it. I ďTHINKĒ Iíve got it figured out but when I try to use any of the various calculators I find online I run into problems. I think itís due to incorrect inputs due to messing up values entered, or at least thatís my hope. It seems to me that thereís differing ways to describe the values to be used. Anyway, hereís some of the values Iíve come up with either from online literature or looking at ownerís manuals online. The TV is a 2019 Silverado 2500HD with a diesel. The 5er is a 2019 Rockwood 2889WSC that will get next year.
Trailer:
UVW 8709
CCC 2666
GVWR 11375
PIN WT 1706.25

Tow vehicle:
MAX TOWING 13500
MAX PAYLOAD 2513
FRONT AXLE GROSS WT RATING 5600
REAR AXLE GROSS WT RATING 6600
MAX GVWR 11350
MAX GCWR 25300
CURB WT 7467

PASSENGERS 365#


Calculated GVWR 9538
Calculated GCWR 20913


To ME it looks like things should work. Maybe I'm way off base in which case I'm sure someone will let me know.


thanks
Kirk
So Kirk you expect to load the full CCC of 2666 lbs .... just my wife and I we add about 900 lbs ... and Forest River figures there pin weights at about 15.7 % keep in mind these are manufactured estimate's everyone will say it needs to be weighted ... just sold my 5ver to a man with a 2500HD Duramax diesel and I took a peek at his payload 2135 lbs a common problem with 3/4 ton diesel trucks ... have to see the sticker on the door to see what you are getting ... I bought a truck to small and I say get the 1 ton SRW and don't look back
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Old 08-08-2019, 09:55 AM   #11
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The powertrains will be the same for 2500 & 3500 (gas for gas and diesel for diesel) so moving to a 3500 will cost nothing in terms of mileage. The ride will be a little stiffer and the price will be about the same when you get done haggling. The safety margin for the 3500 is HUGE, IMO
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Old 08-08-2019, 10:13 AM   #12
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I think the answer is pretty obvious in this case... adding gear to trailer and truck likely going over on pin wt.
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Old 08-08-2019, 10:13 AM   #13
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I had and '11 2500 Dmax pulling a 42' Sierra 365bh which was around 14k. Had 2300lb pin weight. My payload was 2680 (i think). Pulled with that truck for about 2yrs. Yes, I was over payload. Did I notice or ever felt unsafe, not really. Bought a '13 3500 dually and pulled for another 2 yrs. The 1 difference between the two trucks, was when I hit a dip in the road (bridges/overpasses). Other than that they pulled the same. In fact I usually added weight to the 3500 to get it to ride better, as the 2300lb pin weight wouldn't put down on the helpers. I ran both trucks the same, 70mph OH to FL and back many times. I liked the Dually better, more so for the options it had.
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Old 08-08-2019, 10:26 AM   #14
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You will be #500 or so over payload likely.

The history of those published numbers in the past is hysterically funny from an engineers perspective.

Your truck is supposed to be always higher in the back than the front. Due to spring sizes it will not be with a 3/4 ton. The lights will aim up and there will be more stress on the drive train.

A 3500 is a better idea. If you plan on a lot of towing especially.

If you supplement a diesel 4wd 3/4 ton springs you should be fine. Not preferred.

The engineers sticker on the truck says it is good for #12,500 likely. The state dmv sticker likely says #10,000. That is what mine says.

It is a complex question. I will never own another 2500 with a fifth wheel.
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Old 08-08-2019, 12:37 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by curtputnam View Post
the powertrains will be the same for 2500 & 3500 (gas for gas and diesel for diesel) so moving to a 3500 will cost nothing in terms of mileage. The ride will be a little stiffer and the price will be about the same when you get done haggling. the safety margin for the 3500 is huge, imo
absolutely!
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Old 08-08-2019, 12:51 PM   #16
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My 2500 and 3500 both dropped the same distance at the wheel well when the pin was lowered onto the hitch. Both trucks were 4 doors, 4x4, and 8' beds. Of course that was static weight, the difference came during a bounce. The 2500 naturally dipped a little lower than the 3500.
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Old 08-08-2019, 12:56 PM   #17
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1/2 the 3/4 ton diesel trucks I see are probably over payload. Close but im sure you would be fine. Only you can make your own decisions. Nothing like a good payload thread.
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Old 08-08-2019, 01:02 PM   #18
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Kirk - I've had both a 2500 DMax and 2 3500 Dmaxes. Both of my 3500s were duallies. I felt more comfortable pulling with a dually simply for the fact that I feel they are more stable, plus the added payload ability. Not to mention 4 tires back there should there ever be a tire failure. My 5er is pushing close to 3000lbs pin weight, so having a higher CCC was needed. My truck is both a work truck and a daily driver, as well as being a TV. The ride is no stiffer unloaded than the 2500 was. Some complain about parking a fatazz truck, but I tend to park away from the crowd anyway. Please consider a 3500, whether single or dual. I think you'll be better in the long run.
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Old 08-08-2019, 01:04 PM   #19
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Here's mine for comparison for you also if you look to the left under my forum name 'hbillsmith' and below the picture you should see a clickable link 'Registry'. My registry contains pictures of all my setup and includes pictures of door stickers, trailer stickers, etc.

2015 GMC Sierra 2500HD Diesel (not crew)- sticker payload 2515# from the factory. I added 3-step nerf bars, an underbed goose hitch, an Anderson Ultimate 5th wheel hitch,Curt 4" extenda ball,Firestone Airbags,AirOne wireless air compressor,Fold-a-cover 4 hardpanel bed cover,GMC OEM rubber bed mat

I really didn't need the Airbags and I rarely inflate them. About the only time I need them is on the rare occasion when we find ourselves towing at night and then they are perfect to raise the bed and lower the headlight beams. Airbags do not increase payload at all but they can aid in getting you more level.

The Andersen Ultimate has proved to be a great hitch and at 35# it saved me about 100# payload because its so much lighter than a traditional hitch. But keep in mind you will still be adding about 80# for the underbed gooseneck.

My trailer unloaded dry weight per sticker is 10,152#, CCC 3,504#, GVW 13,656#. My CAT weight for the loaded trailer is 11,367# meaning we are carrying 1,215# of stuff.

3/4 ton trucks shipped to Texas (and most other states I believe) have a GVWR of 10,000#, CAT weighed the truck and subtracted the Truck Only weight from 10,000# to get my real Payload Rating. So with those addons and stuff and with passengers the Payload drops from its sticker (2515#) down to 2,105#. The imputed Trailer Pin Weight with trailer loaded and connected during the same CAT visit is 2,210# so I'm slightly over but still under the Truck Rear Axle and Tire load ratings.

We've now visited 47 states and towed 32,000 miles with this setup and it tows like a dream (I think that Duramax diesel gets the most credit).

My opinion answer to your original question is I believe you'll be fine. I would add one caveat. If you think there is any chance you will want to upgrade from your 'light' fifth wheel to a higher grade, you'll be looking at a one-ton truck. The difference in price between a 3/4ton and 1-ton Single rear wheel is very small (sometimes less than $1,000) so keep that in mind.
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Old 08-08-2019, 01:09 PM   #20
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Pin weight dry for a 2889ws is only 1375lb
I have same set up with 2888ws, my pin weight is 1365lbs dry. I know I am probably a little over on pin weight. GM includes 150lb driver for payload rating.
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