Fver with a 1/2 Ton

[Halifax Jack]

Based on all the data I could compile I came to the decision that although I could purchase a 1/2 ton that met spec it really wouldn't be a safe ride. FYI even though Ford says a 3.5 eco boost with max tow package can tow 13200lbs their documentation only rates it for 10200 for a 5th wheel. This truck also has 7000lbs payload minus truck , passengers cargo hitch this leaves you with very little in hitch weight.
On a side note when I first went looking for 5ers and told the salesmen I planned to use a 1/2 ton he said no way. So not all salesmen are the same. Had the same issue with the Ford dealer. First meeting with him I said 1/2 ton in fact we picked packages and pricing. When I went back into the dealership with a change of heart . He along with the sales manager were prepared to convince me not to purchase the 1/2 ton even if it meant a lost sale. There is more to consider besides towing and payload. you should consider frontal area of unit as well as height and where you are towing it. I have to consider coast and rocky mountains. They are in my back yard.

Just my two cents and the reason for my personal decision.

[doc73]

Originally Posted by Indy500

It is half ton towable, 1 in front and one in the back , I've seen big trucks move massive tanks this way
Of course they also have a state trooper lead and follow them from state line to line. And never over 50mph

Just saw a video in a dot group I am in from Canada.. I think it was 4 trucks in the front and 6 in the back. Over 100yds long.

[67L48]

Originally Posted by itat

[...] compared to my previous ‘09 F-150. [...]

Not to pick on one person, but this perfectly encapsulates the con argument. People don't actually know what a 1/2 ton is anymore. Things have changed dramatically in the 10 years since that '09 F150 was new. My own 2005 F150 probably has less capability than today's Ford Ranger/Chevy Colorado.

And, that's why there are two camps: data and emotion.

I posted some other people's data that built cases why their 1/2 tons could pull medium to large 5ers. Data driven. The arguments that followed weren't suggesting that the data were inaccurate or incomplete. Nope. Just statements of fact that 1/2 tons can't/shouldn't be pulling those trailers. Why? Because they're just 1/2 tons, presumably.

That's where most of these land. And most people's understanding of what a 1/2 ton can do is based on platforms that are 10 years or more outdated.

I think there are some good arguments to be made. Braking capability has come up, but there are no data ... just anecdotal statements and speculation as to the capacity (and, again, most rooted in what 1/2 tons were 10+ years ago). Wheel base, weight, power, and so on could be rational arguments, but I see no actual development of any of those. They just get thrown out as ideas whose merits are expected to be self-evident.

So, to the OP (and those like him), the answer is the same. Today's 1/2 tons can be built to approximate the specifications of a 3/4 ton. You must carefully consider all aspects and proceed with caution.

Or, you can just accept that 1/2 tons are just 1/2 tons and will never be capable of heavier loads by virtue of their undeniable pedigrees.

Good luck.

[Halifax Jack]

My Dad used to sell Jayco's in the 70's in fact I used to go camping as a newly married 23 year old in a 27.5 Jayco 5th wheel pulled by a 1/2 HD Chev truck c/w 454 cu in. That trailer was a beast but then again so was the truck. As the Ford Dealer said today's F150 is nothing more than a car of old. I have to say moving up in tow vehicle made shopping for a 5er much easier.

[Dustyhd]

Originally Posted by 67L48

Not to pick on one person, but this perfectly encapsulates the con argument. People don't actually know what a 1/2 ton is anymore. Things have changed dramatically in the 10 years since that '09 F150 was new. My own 2005 F150 probably has less capability than today's Ford Ranger/Chevy Colorado.

And, that's why there are two camps: data and emotion.

I posted some other people's data that built cases why their 1/2 tons could pull medium to large 5ers. Data driven. The arguments that followed weren't suggesting that the data were inaccurate or incomplete. Nope. Just statements of fact that 1/2 tons can't/shouldn't be pulling those trailers. Why? Because they're just 1/2 tons, presumably.

That's where most of these land. And most people's understanding of what a 1/2 ton can do is based on platforms that are 10 years or more outdated.

I think there are some good arguments to be made. Braking capability has come up, but there are no data ... just anecdotal statements and speculation as to the capacity (and, again, most rooted in what 1/2 tons were 10+ years ago). Wheel base, weight, power, and so on could be rational arguments, but I see no actual development of any of those. They just get thrown out as ideas whose merits are expected to be self-evident.

So, to the OP (and those like him), the answer is the same. Today's 1/2 tons can be built to approximate the specifications of a 3/4 ton. You must carefully consider all aspects and proceed with caution.

Or, you can just accept that 1/2 tons are just 1/2 tons and will never be capable of heavier loads by virtue of their undeniable pedigrees.

Good luck.

If you care to know and calculate the advantages of TV mass, wheelbase, center of gravity, and cornering stiffness on towing stability you can find it here.
http://tuprints.ulb.tu-darmstadt.de/...ssertation.pdf
There’s no guessing or option about it, it’s physics.

[67L48]

Originally Posted by Dustyhd

If you care to know and calculate the advantages of TV mass, wheelbase, center of gravity, and cornering stiffness on towing stability you can find it here.
http://tuprints.ulb.tu-darmstadt.de/...ssertation.pdf
There’s no guessing or option about it, it’s physics.

It's not my job to make others' arguments for them. Provided that paper can be applied to the specific case here of a modern 1/2 ton pulling a 5er, I'd enjoy reading someone's post about it. But, statements that suggest 1/2 tons can't tow a 5er "because physics" don't do much to convince me one way or the other. Because look what someone else can do: a modern 1/2 ton can absolutely tow those 5ers because of physics.

Defenders of 1/2 tons actually build a case based on data. Detractors of 1/2 tons are much more prone to make statements and expect others to accept them as prima facie arguments.

I'm sort of neutral on the idea and have no skin in the game. I just appreciate actual arguments with some foundation to them.

One thing I think we can all agree on is that a 1/2 ton could tow this 5er:

[Dustyhd]

You can apply the calculations to any vehicle and trailer combination in which the results would show the advantages of increased mass or any other perimeter you choose to change. The practical threshold of pin weight on a 1/2 ton 5500 lb TV with 60/40 weight distribution is in the 1300-1500 range which keeps the understeer gradient zero or higher. The calculations don’t say 1/2ton can’t tow a fifth wheel but they can establish some practical realistic limits.

[rmillermtsu]

Originally Posted by Trawlerphil

We've towed a Forest River 8528RKWS at 9,000 lbs and a 1,525 pin load for 35,387 miles through every mountain range in the country with a 2012 Tundra. Our highest point was 12,126 feet at Rocky Mountain National Park. We get 10MPG on Florida roads, 9MPG on most other roads and 7MPG at 80MPH on Utah highways. We had no problems, probably because of 14" brakes, a 4:30 rear end, a 6 speed transmission and a 381HP V8. I know, I know, you can't tow a 5th wheel with a 1/2 ton pickup... "YMMV"!

Your experience towing that trailer is impressive. I have the same trailer you have and wasn't comfortable towing it with my f250 6.2l gasser let alone a half ton. Maybe if I had 4.30 gears instead of 3.73's in the f250 I would have kept it. My first reaction when I saw this was "I'd probably kill myself and everyone with me if I tried to tow my 8528rkws with a half ton truck". But then, like the OP we probably don't have anywhere near your experience and skill.

[G.O.D.]

Thank You All for Posting Your Experience, Ideals and Knowledge on this Subject. What got me to Originally Post this and Excited about Towing a Fiver is For the Same Length in of a TT you get more Living Space. What I have been looking at is 25 to 27 Ft Fivers. My TV has a GVCWR of 16,100 and a GVWR of 7000 and My TV Loaded for Camping with both DW and I is 5980 from the Cat Scales that is with the Anderson Hitch left at the Trailer. So I can only have a Hitch Weight of 1100. All I'm Finding are 1200 and Above. Please keep the Comments Coming this is Interesting Knowledge for Me and I hope it helps Others Pursuing the Same Dream. Thank you again for Sharing.

[Kstan529]

Originally Posted by G.O.D.

Who Tows a Fiver with a 1/2 ton Truck? I had a Salesman at an RV Dealer in Laughlin Nevada Show me a Grand Design Fiver that I supposedly could Safely Tow with My Truck. What do You Tow and What with? Thank you.

We have a 2018 Wildwood CWTD27TDSS 27ft (bought from Findley here in Las Vegas dont recommend them). We tow it with a 2014 Ram 1500 Hemi 5.7L. And it tows it great. Good luck

[rockfordroo]

Originally Posted by Dustyhd

If you care to know and calculate the advantages of TV mass, wheelbase, center of gravity, and cornering stiffness on towing stability you can find it here.
http://tuprints.ulb.tu-darmstadt.de/...ssertation.pdf
There’s no guessing or option about it, it’s physics.

Interesting paper, but it actually covers conventional TTs, not 5vers (See the figure of his model on pg 22). It also deals mostly with sway (he calls it stability), not usually an issue with a 5ver.

Most of the issues/concerns raised in this thread relate to power, braking and payload with a 5ver, not sway.

[Dustyhd]

Originally Posted by rockfordroo

Interesting paper, but it actually covers conventional TTs, not 5vers (See the figure of his model on pg 22). It also deals mostly with sway (he calls it stability), not usually an issue with a 5ver.

Most of the issues/concerns raised in this thread relate to power, braking and payload with a 5ver, not sway.

The equations will work just as well with a fifth wheel, understeer gradient is relevant for that type trailer.

[dcheatwood]

Many of us have towed tt and filth wheels with halfton trucks for years. It depends on your truck and your TT.

[VernDiesel]

Some 5th wheel TTs designed from the ground up for 1/2 ton trucks.


https://winnebagoind.com/products/fi...innie/overview

https://winnebagoind.com/products/fi...specifications

The Escape 5.0 TA

[CaptnJohn]

In 1974 I pulled a 20' TT with a new Plymouth Fury III. I believe it was more capable than many, not all, of today's 1/2 tons. WB about the same and the car was heavier.

My observation on the "will my TV …?" threads is about 15% are honestly looking for advice. The remaining 85% know they are asking more from the TV than it is designed for or safe and want some justification to go forward. I'd like to know how many actually decide on a smaller trailer or larger truck, hopefully a majority.
In December a 32' - 35' 5er was brought to a site by a truck with an RV storage sign on it. The next day the owner was buying a new truck as he said "it killed" his Tundra. Most of his vacation was truck shopping and getting a hitch installed but no one was hurt which was the best thing.

[RACarvalho]

Originally Posted by dcheatwood

Many of us have towed tt and filth wheels with halfton trucks for years. It depends on your truck and your TT.

^^ This

I saw last week a 3/4 ton Silverado that had a payload just 200 pounds higher than my F150....

[JohnD10]

Originally Posted by RACarvalho

^^ This

I saw last week a 3/4 ton Silverado that had a payload just 200 pounds higher than my F150....

Where?

[Palinduff]

Originally Posted by JohnD10

Where?

I've seen 3/4 tons with less payload than my F150. Diesel though, so way more torque and towing, but less payload.

[goduc]

Originally Posted by RACarvalho

^^ This

I saw last week a 3/4 ton Silverado that had a payload just 200 pounds higher than my F150....

Difference is the 3/4 ton has a higher RAWR. When a 1/2 ton hits the payload rating it's almost always maxed on RAWR. I towed over my payload for 6 seasons with my 2500. I was however under the trucks RAWR, tow rating, tire ratings and GCVWR.

[RACarvalho]

Originally Posted by JohnD10

Where?

At Chevrotet website....
My F150 has 2700lbs of payload limit.