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Old 06-19-2012, 12:44 AM   #1
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GVWR and GCWR question...pls help....confused

Ok, so here it goes, while researching alot of different rigs and my TV specs and limitations as question has arose to which I am extremely confused, might just be me, but hopefully someone can shed some light for me....

My TV is a 2012 Ford F350 Crew Cab SRW 6.7L Powerstroke with FX4 Package.

(not looking at the stickers right now but weights listed are pretty close)

GVWR 11,500 lbs
Cargo not to exceed 3460 lbs.
So my estimated curb weight is roughly 8000 lbs.

My new rig is a 2013 Sierra 365SAQ with a GVWR of 14k lbs, tongue weight of 2100 lbs and and dry weight of 12k lbs.

According to Ford, with my truck configuration in the tow manual, my truck can tow 15,700 lbs with a properly fitted fifth wheel hitch.

The part that is confusing the hell out of me is that the same Ford Tow guidelines state the GCWR is 23,500 lbs.

How do they come up with this figure?

If I am fully loaded at 11,500 which I wont ever be but still, and tow a fully loaded trailer to their specs of 15,700, shouldn't my GCWR be 27,200 lbs?

My trailer is only 14k loaded and i dont anticipate truck being anywhere near max as all will be in the trailer besides the wife and kids. (of course i will watch weight by towing empty grey and black and maybe a few gallons of fresh for bathroom usage) so I do not anticipate being close to the 14k lbs either....so I will be 1k-2k below the GCWR listed but just confused on how the numbers work.....

Can anyone shed any light?

Thanks
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Old 06-19-2012, 01:05 AM   #2
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The maximum towing weight of 15,700 lbs also includes any payload carried in the truck. Working backwards GCWR of 23500 - max tow of 15700 lbs = 7800 lb truck.

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Old 06-19-2012, 01:24 AM   #3
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Thanks, I got the idea now......so looks like i am well within my ratio......I cant wait to pick up my new rig in 2 weeks
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Old 06-19-2012, 04:08 PM   #4
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I must be missing something? If your truck is 9,000 lbs ready to go and you have pin weight, empty 2,100 lbs, it will be almost 20% of loaded 5er or near 2,800 lbs, when they are put together, you have 11,100 or 11,800 lbs for the truck and take that away from 23,500 lbs you will be able to pull 12,400 lbs or 11,700 lbs. I have the same issue, truck 2011 F250 can pull a 5er of 16,200 lbs and my combined, GCWR, is same as yours, 23,500 lbs. Truck is 7,500 lbs ready to go and my 5er is 9,850 ready to go, so truck plus pin weight of 1,900 lbs is 9,400 lbs and 5er at 9,850 lbs comes to 19,250 lbs much less then the 23,500, but the truck is close to the 10,000 lbs limit.
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Old 06-19-2012, 04:25 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whj77372 View Post
I must be missing something? If your truck is 9,000 lbs ready to go and you have pin weight, empty 2,100 lbs, it will be almost 20% of loaded 5er or near 2,800 lbs, when they are put together, you have 11,100 or 11,800 lbs for the truck and take that away from 23,500 lbs you will be able to pull 12,400 lbs or 11,700 lbs. I have the same issue, truck 2011 F250 can pull a 5er of 16,200 lbs and my combined, GCWR, is same as yours, 23,500 lbs. Truck is 7,500 lbs ready to go and my 5er is 9,850 ready to go, so truck plus pin weight of 1,900 lbs is 9,400 lbs and 5er at 9,850 lbs comes to 19,250 lbs much less then the 23,500, but the truck is close to the 10,000 lbs limit.
The weight he can pull using your numbers of 11700 to 12400 would be the campers axle weight.

If you concluding that you reach the payload or GVWR limit of the truck before the maximum towing limit...yes you're correct. That would be true whether half, three quarter or even one ton truck when towing 5th wheel campers.

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Old 06-19-2012, 05:08 PM   #6
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Ok so now im confused as hell again LOL
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Old 06-19-2012, 05:22 PM   #7
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Neither the truck nor the trailer can exceed its individual Gross Vehicle Weight Rating rating when not connected. The Gross Combined Weight Rating (when they are hooked up and ready to travel) is the maximum that the loaded truck and trailer may weigh if you put them both on a scale at the same time.

1) Do not exceed the G Vehicle WR of either the truck or the trailer.
2) Do not exceed the G Combined WR of the truck.
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Old 06-19-2012, 05:29 PM   #8
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Ok, im good there....thats not an issue, just seems like with the math I am seeing is that the king pin is double tipping the numbers up.

I.E. 9000 lbs ready to roll truck and 14k lbs trailer =23,500 lbs

but if you add the 2500 to the 9000 for the kingpin weight in the truck, shouldnt some weight be off the trailer thus making it less then shown.

Im just reading it as a 14k trailer fully loaded has 2800 lbs of that weight going into the bed of the truck, thus making the trailer weight much less than 14k but increasing the weight in the TV.

Sorry if i seem stupid about this, just confused because it seems to me you add 2800 lbs loaded to a TV but it still shows on the other end of the trailer too, making an appearance of a mysterious 2800 lbs.
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Old 06-19-2012, 05:29 PM   #9
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Reframe of 1 & 2 above.

1)The truck can only weigh so much before its tires pop. Same for the trailer.

2) The poor little motor in the truck can only move so many pounds before it sputters to a stop and goes to engine heaven.
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Old 06-19-2012, 09:12 PM   #10
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Let's see if this helps. If the weight on the kingpin is considered as part of the load on the truck does that mean you can add the kingpin weight, now being carried on the truck, back to what can be carried in the trailer? Though the following is just the way I have it figured out in my own head, my answer to that question is no.

A trailer is composed of many subsystems, such as tires, axles, frame, kingpin box, tank placement, etc. The subsystems are designed/rated to work in harmony to create a system (trailer) that works safely when being towed. The manufacturer crunches the numbers and determines that all the subsystems (with all the stresses that will be placed on them when the trailer is being towed) will play together nicely and that all will be well as long as the trailer, unhooked and sitting still on a CAT scale, weighs no more than x number of pounds. In making this determination the manufacturer is well aware that the weight of the kingpin will be on the truck, and includes that in the calculation. The number that results is the GVWR of the trailer.

Using this model I was able to resolve the issue to my satisfaction. All I had to do was convince myself that the GVWR is calculated based on the trailer being on the ground - and not assuming that it was calculated when the trailer was hooked up.
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