Half-ton Towing MPG

[CentralMePistol]

babcock and 510;
Thank you guys for giving an opinion, it is good to hear all the sides- and let people make their own decisions.

Do you think you could take your pissing match elsewhere so we can focus on the topic at hand?

[DieselDrax]

Originally Posted by CentralMePistol

I tend to tow between 60 and 65 depending on traffic and conditions.

Good speeds for fuel economy, I tow at 65MPH. At 70MPH my fuel economy drops from 12-14MPG down to 10-11MPG. If I try 75MPH then it drops to 9-10MPG. Biggest factor being wind resistance, the faster you go it's like trying to climb a steeper hill, the truck doesn't know any better and just feels the drag of something trying to hold it back.

Originally Posted by KyDan

I get 7 or 8 mpg.
Can I borrow your truck for a couple months??

Don't know if it's even applicable but in -some- trucks running at very low RPM can cause tranny over heat due to low amount of tranny fluid being pumped thru the cooler.

Just a thought.
Don't know about your truck.

Good luck and happy camping!

That is true as well, my Titan was that way. If I climbed a grade in 4th at around 3000-3500RPM my trans temps would quickly climb. Downshifting to 3rd or even second to get the RPMs up to 5000 allowed the trans temps to come down quickly.

The only time this wouldn't work is if I were pulling a grade in 2nd, WOT, and 45MPH. The higher RPMs and fluid flow couldn't combat how hard it was working. Just one of the reasons I upgraded trucks back then.

To the OP, the MPG battle/disappointment is one folks have been trying to combat forever. Throwing money at the problem may sound inviting on the surface, but you have to figure out how long it would take to recover the cost of those mods by saving fuel. If you increase MPG by 2MPG on average (20%, which is unrealistic. 2MPG doesn't seem like a lot until you realize it is a 20% increase which is a lot) by spending $1500 on an intake, tune, and exhaust (again theoretical, I'm not saying you can gain 2MPG by doing those things) then do the math...

10MPG @ $3/gal = 0.1 gallons per mile = $0.30/mile
12MPG @ $3/gal = 0.083 gallons per mile = $0.249/mile

A savings of $0.051/mile.

It will take you almost 30,000 miles just to pay for those mods and start seeing any cost savings. Before that you're just out more money than you would have spent on gas.

It's for this reason that spending money to specifically try and save money on fuel doesn't make financial sense.

When I upgraded from a Titan to a Ram 3500 diesel I did it for many reasons, but saving money on fuel wasn't one of them. The main reasons were...

- Couldn't stand having to stop every 150 miles to gas up.
- Trailer loaded for long trips was putting me at the limit of my truck's weight limits.
- It wasn't a relaxing experience due to the high revs up hills and getting pushed around even with good sway control. It wasn't white-knuckle driving, but it was stressful enough that I would be fatigued at the end of a long drive.

If your only concern is fuel economy then you just need to try and put it out of your mind and try to not think about it. If there are other aspects of the towing experience that also don't meet your expectations then take them into consideration and decide if it would be worthwhile to get a different truck, at the end of the day it comes down to comfort, IMO. I have no problem spending money to make sure everyone is comfortable, but I can't justify spending money to try and save money, at least when it comes to towing.

[Lawrosa]

Originally Posted by 510Rick

Maybe your engineer buddy's lie since they are paid big bucks to keep secrets ? They are pushing the best mileage they can get with out causing harm to the truck or car in order to keep down warranty expenses . All of these computer controlled vehicles are capable of getting better mileage and a lot more power output . Usually contrary to the norm the more power they program the engine to output the better the mileage . This is especially true with Diesel vehicles.
FWIW I also know your engineer buddys did a terrible job on the GM vehicles with the Active Fuel Management crap they put on the 2007 and newer trucks . You can do your own research on that issue its no secret . Im a GM guy always have been and it pains me to feel this way but when you take care of a huge fleet of vehicles you get a good idea of whats crap and what isnt .

Not to get off topic but the first thing you should do with GM AFM is disable it..

Bad design holding the valves open and such.. Carbo, carbon, carbon..........

https://rangetechnology.com/afm-disabler/

Cam phasers are an issue too and ford was the first to have issues there for what I know.....

[510Rick]

Originally Posted by DieselDrax

You cannot compare diesel to gas tuning, not even close. Modern gas engines have minimal gains available without doing some $$$ bolt-ons and other major mods. Diesels are easy to get more power out of. The OP doesn't have a diesel.



Diesel vs gas, simple as that. Diesel has higher energy content than gasoline, which means less diesel is needed to make the same amount of power which means better fuel economy when pushed hard. Can't compare diesel and gas fuel economy and expect a gas truck to get the same, it just won't happen.

I agree to a point we are close on how we feel . I understand diesel has more potential for power and economy . But I know there is tons of power left in these stock gas engines they dont want us getting at . I see it with all these kids and there LS engine swaps they take a stock pick up engine bolt it into a drift car and have them tuned for significantly more power. Actually if you throw some goodies at them the potential is kind of scary when you think they are running around towns all over the country with that much power but that a different subject .

I'm not trying to discredit what your saying as I pretty much agree. I just don't think they are giving us these vehicles with our best interest at heart .

[510Rick]

Originally Posted by Lawrosa

Not to get off topic but the first thing you should do with GM AFM is disable it..

Bad design holding the valves open and such.. Carbo, carbon, carbon..........

https://rangetechnology.com/afm-disabler/

Cam phasers are an issue too and ford was the first to have issues there for what I know.....

I'm with you man I found out the hard way with my wife's beautiful pile of crap fully loaded Tahoe . The AFM is now disabled I found a super cool dongle you can just leave plugged into the OBDII port and so far its been great . I've been saving $50 a month on oil now too . I couldn't believe the beloved folks at GM said the amount of oil it was using was acceptable .

I should have clicked your link its pretty much exactly what I have .

[DieselDrax]

Originally Posted by 510Rick

I agree to a point we are close on how we feel . I understand diesel has more potential for power and economy . But I know there is tons of power left in these stock gas engines they dont want us getting at . I see it with all these kids and there LS engine swaps they take a stock pick up engine bolt it into a drift car and have them tuned for significantly more power. Actually if you throw some goodies at them the potential is kind of scary when you think they are running around towns all over the country with that much power but that a different subject .

I'm not trying to discredit what your saying as I pretty much agree. I just don't think they are giving us these vehicles with our best interest at heart .

Keep in mind those folks are usually taking the 5.3 or 6.0 truck engines because the blocks are stronger, they then replace the heads, cam, and rockers, then do a custom tune. They are not taking a bone-stock truck engine and only doing a tune to get those numbers, it's just not happening with the truck cam and stock heads. The 5.3 truck engines can withstand huge gains with a stock bottom end which makes doing heads, cam, and tune an inexpensive way to get some really good power.

I have modified and tuned numerous modern vehicles, there really isn't much of anything left on the table anymore without replacing some pretty major parts. The engines from the factory are tuned to be the most powerful and efficient as possible while being able to meet emissions requirements. That last part is the big one; emissions.

As much as I would love to see big gains with minimal work, it's just not happening anymore. Headers, full exhaust, 180-degree tstat, custom tune gave me maybe 25HP on one HEMI. On another HEMI not even a custom tune and long-tube headers would add more than around 20-25HP over the stock 485HP engine that came with factory shorty headers and a cold-air intake. The only way to see big gains was with a cam (The heads flow quite well from the factory) or forced induction.

For vehicles that impact the manufacturer's CAFE requirements it would behoove them to not make the vehicles as efficient as possible so that they can get their CAFE numbers down. For 3/4-ton and bigger trucks that doesn't apply, but for the 1/2-ton and smaller trucks it does. If there is something more they could be doing to get noticeable MPG improvements then they'd be doing it, and with innovation they are finding ways. That innovation isn't in the form of tweaking tunes and installing better intakes but by way of new technologies such as direct injection gas engines, mild-hybrid systems, variable displacement cranks/connecting rods, etc.

[babock]

Originally Posted by 510Rick

Maybe your engineer buddy's lie since they are paid big bucks to keep secrets ?

Good lord...if you really believe that, there is no point in any discussion with you.

[510Rick]

Originally Posted by DieselDrax

Keep in mind those folks are usually taking the 5.3 or 6.0 truck engines because the blocks are stronger, they then replace the heads, cam, and rockers, then do a custom tune. They are not taking a bone-stock truck engine and only doing a tune to get those numbers, it's just not happening with the truck cam and stock heads. The 5.3 truck engines can withstand huge gains with a stock bottom end which makes doing heads, cam, and tune an inexpensive way to get some really good power.

I have modified and tuned numerous modern vehicles, there really isn't much of anything left on the table anymore without replacing some pretty major parts. The engines from the factory are tuned to be the most powerful and efficient as possible while being able to meet emissions requirements. That last part is the big one; emissions.

As much as I would love to see big gains with minimal work, it's just not happening anymore. Headers, full exhaust, 180-degree tstat, custom tune gave me maybe 25HP on one HEMI. On another HEMI not even a custom tune and long-tube headers would add more than around 20-25HP over the stock 485HP engine that came with factory shorty headers and a cold-air intake. The only way to see big gains was with a cam (The heads flow quite well from the factory) or forced induction.

For vehicles that impact the manufacturer's CAFE requirements it would behoove them to not make the vehicles as efficient as possible so that they can get their CAFE numbers down. For 3/4-ton and bigger trucks that doesn't apply, but for the 1/2-ton and smaller trucks it does. If there is something more they could be doing to get noticeable MPG improvements then they'd be doing it, and with innovation they are finding ways. That innovation isn't in the form of tweaking tunes and installing better intakes but by way of new technologies such as direct injection gas engines, mild-hybrid systems, variable displacement cranks/connecting rods, etc.

Oh jeez no wonder you don't see the significant gains your talking about HEMI's hahahaha . I kid I kid .. Dude I Understand that there is ridiculous amounts of abuse those LS lower ends can handle but I wasn't referring to the full on modded out LS engines . Which Id love to have in my Chevelle btw . But Just good tuning on a stocker will net you significant gains I've seen it more then once . I guess I should say that of course they all have headers and decent exhaust by the time they get into a play car so that definitely plays into the equation . Oh and I also agree CAI is a joke . The biggest fallacy since Fuel injection came out.

[510Rick]

Originally Posted by babock

Good lord...if you really believe that, there is no point in any discussion with you.

Did you not read my reply about GM telling me the amount of oil our Tahoe was burning was acceptable ? They LIE !! They also are the same engineering goons that signed off on the AFM crap that causes excessive oil burning and premature engine failure . Ask them about it . They lie dude . Im willing to listen to reason but not when I have first hand experience . Btw lets agree to disagree and let this poor person have their thread back . I hope we can agree on that at least . You have a good holiday weekend and if you care to debate more you can always PM me . I like to learn new things as well as spread my limited knowledge .


TO THE ORIGINAL POSTER . My apologies for jacking your thread and pushing it off topic.

[babock]

I agree with the AFM...that would be disabled the first chance I got.

The OP asked about tuners. I gave advice on that and CAI. You took it to a whole different level.

[Bikemobile]

10-12 mpg with my combo.

[elchilero53]

I average 11 to 11.5 mpg and range from 8 to 15 mpg while towing with my rig. it generally sits in 4th or 5th gear while towing. Transmission temperature doesn't get over 192 generally though on a really long uphill it did get to 200 once. I drive at 63 mph steady, which is a sweet spot for my rig for some reason. My truck has a factory-installed K&N Cold Air intake. You definitely notice when you down shift and get the rpms up because it really roars but the truck has active noise cancellation so the ride is still quiet.

[DieselDrax]

Originally Posted by elchilero53

My truck has a factory-installed K&N Cold Air intake.

Never heard of such a thing, no manufacturer I know of would ever use a K&N filter from the factory due to poor filter efficiency and the maintenance required. Now, a GM performance part upgrade installed by the dealer I would totally believe.

This is the factory airbox/intake on the Chevy/GMC 1500 with the 6.2L, it's the same setup the 5.3 uses. If your intake is different then it's not factory-installed.

[Roberte52]

Only thing I've added to my truck is cold air intake. I get 10-12 depending on terrain. I try to keep my speed around 65mph.

[elchilero53]

Originally Posted by DieselDrax

Never heard of such a thing, no manufacturer I know of would ever use a K&N filter from the factory due to poor filter efficiency and the maintenance required. Now, a GM performance part upgrade installed by the dealer I would totally believe.

This is the factory airbox/intake on the Chevy/GMC 1500 with the 6.2L, it's the same setup the 5.3 uses. If your intake is different then it's not factory-installed.

The picture you show is the what my setup looks like when I pop the hood. I just quoted what was on the build sheet the dealer emailed to me. The Build sheet reported a K&N Cold Air Intake. I have no idea if it is a dealer upgrade or not. It was shipped in from another dealer in North Texas and wasn't on the lot. When it arrived, I took it for a test drive, popped the hood to see if it met my specs and took delivery.

Mine is the Chevrolet Silverado 1500 LTZ Z71 with the 6.2L.

[mawilson]

F150 Scab w/ 5.0L V-8 pulling around 6000#. 9-10 MPG in Florida.

[DieselDrax]

Originally Posted by elchilero53

The picture you show is the what my setup looks like when I pop the hood. I just quoted what was on the build sheet the dealer emailed to me. The Build sheet reported a K&N Cold Air Intake. I have no idea if it is a dealer upgrade or not. It was shipped in from another dealer in North Texas and wasn't on the lot. When it arrived, I took it for a test drive, popped the hood to see if it met my specs and took delivery.

Mine is the Chevrolet Silverado 1500 LTZ Z71 with the 6.2L.

Really odd, I see factory-optional performance exhaust available but no intakes.

I'd be really curious to see what filter you have in the airbox, if it's an OEM ACDelco or if it's a K&N drop-in panel filter. The airbox and intake in the pic is standard and not some special K&N upgrade.

Anyway, not arguing or anything, I'm just really curious how that even ended up on a build sheet when it appears the intake is 100% stock. Only thing I can't see is the filter itself.

The 6.2 is a beast of an engine in any regard.

[Mainframe]

NEWSFLASH! This just in!
Popular consensus confirms!

If you are concerned about fuel economy on your truck DO NOT, I REPEAT, DO NOT connect it to a large, high object with wheels alternatively known as an RV!

Although your truck is engineered for this duty and doing so will cause extreme happiness and joy to all involved, your fuel mileage will decrease thus degrading your experience.

To those of us who have never calculated mpg in anything ever, we will be the ones in the fast lane with the ice cream cone in one hand and the wheel in the other headed for camping bliss.

[Oaklevel]

Do not know about current tuners but in the past they could void your truck warranty ( I know they say they won't).

[VernDiesel]

Just fwiw I transport TTs daily for the Mfgs 433,000 on my lil 1/2 ton Ram Econo diesel. So fuel economy towing economy & reliability are paramount to profit for me. GDE tune brought my towing average up 1 mpg & Hwy & unloaded average up 2. Towing 65 mph with a double axle box TT she averages 14.0, 15.0 with an Airstream, running empty 28 to 30 at 80 mph 23 to 24.

I know that doesn’t help OP but thought some might find it interesting given the thread title.