Hensley/Propride vs half ton trucks...too much?

[larryandamy]

I can only speak to the Hensley from experience. Once you tow without and with a Hensley, you will never want to tow without it. Eliminates all sway and white knuckle driving. They cost $2000, but worth every penny. Go look at the testimonials and videos of huge trailer being towed through a slalom course and on and off soft shoulders. The dual pivot hitch is an engineering marvel.

[Lzerarc]

Do you know what the weight added to the tw of the trailer? Is it true the extra length difference negates the added weight of the hitch?

[itat]

Nobody is saying the Hensley and ProPride aren’t great for controlling sway. They are top of the line for that purpose. What they are saying is that those hitches don’t resolve being over your GVWR. The only thing that will resolve that is a lighter trailer or a more heavy duty tow vehicle.

[dbledan]

Originally Posted by Lzerarc

Do you know what the weight added to the tw of the trailer? Is it true the extra length difference negates the added weight of the hitch?

It is about 260ish lbs by itself. With the WDH engaged it is very roughly a wash to 25ish lbs added to TW from my experience.

I would not say tongue weight negated by length but it does make loading things in the rear of the TT much easier. There is a very minor length difference of about 2-3ft for turning. Makes the trailer turn like a 5er rather than normal pivot points but I have found that it is negligible.

[Go West]

Originally Posted by larryandamy

I can only speak to the Hensley from experience. Once you tow without and with a Hensley, you will never want to tow without it.

Personally, I'm fine towing with another hitch. I towed an Outback 26RS with a Hensley Arrow for many years. I tow my current 27-foot Grey Wolf trailer with a far less expensive Husky Centerline TS. In terms of weight distribution, the Husky performs as well or better than the Hensley Arrow. The Centerline TS does not eliminate sway like the Hensley, but it continuously controls and immediately corrects sway in every situation I've encountered. The trailer is well within the capacities of my tow vehicle, and that is certainly part of the reason the towing experience isn't much different between the two hitches. I expect other four-point sway control systems such as Equalizer or Reese Steadi-Flex would perform in a similar manner.

By a "four-point system," I'm referring to a hitch where sway control is provided by tension in the hitch head, combined with the friction of trunnion bars on sway control brackets.

[Lzerarc]

Originally Posted by dbledan

It is about 260ish lbs by itself. With the WDH engaged it is very roughly a wash to 25ish lbs added to TW from my experience.

I would not say tongue weight negated by length but it does make loading things in the rear of the TT much easier. There is a very minor length difference of about 2-3ft for turning. Makes the trailer turn like a 5er rather than normal pivot points but I have found that it is negligible.

When you say wash to 25, are you meaning compared to 260 added to the tw? So of that 260, the truck "feels" about 25 lbs?

[JohnD10]

Originally Posted by Lzerarc

When you say wash to 25, are you meaning compared to 260 added to the tw? So of that 260, the truck "feels" about 25 lbs?

That weight doesn't just magically disappear...it has to go somewhere!

It is either on the truck or in the trailer, but is still there somewhere!

Which is another good reason why a WDH setup will not make a tow vehicle that is barely capable of the load any closer to being capable.

If anyone is this close to being overloaded (ie.- worrying about 200-300 pounds), then the best WDH system in the world in not the answer to your problems...

But in reality making them worse.

[dbledan]

Originally Posted by JohnD10

That weight doesn't just magically disappear...it has to go somewhere!

It is either on the truck or in the trailer, but is still there somewhere!

Which is another good reason why a WDH setup will not make a tow vehicle that is barely capable of the load any closer to being capable.

If anyone is this close to being overloaded (ie.- worrying about 200-300 pounds), then the best WDH system in the world in not the answer to your problems...

But in reality making them worse.

You are correct weight does not disappear. If it helps or not depends on what weight you are close to being over. For most it is payload. If payload or rear axle is close and you are sending more back to the trailer and the front then you are still within weights...that is exactly what the WDH is there to help with. If over gross weight (vehicle or combined) you are correct that it will not help at all. It will also not help if over steer or trailer axle weight. The same applies to every WDH.

When I say a wash I am distributing enough of the weight of the hitch that TW calculations will either be near 0 to 25lbs heavier compared to my blueox setup as that was the question. With my blueox I could usually get the weight of the hitch removed and a bit more. I went back and figured it out after someone pointed out how heavy the P3 was because my tickets were still good.

I would disagree on the blanket statement that anyone worried about 200-300lbs is making it worse.
If its payload or rear axle you can still be very safe. If its unsafe then any WDH is not safe.

If you are worried about gross weights, steer or TT axles then yes you are covering something up and are likely making your weight problem worse.

Bottom line is weigh your rig. Hensley will not help you with a weight problem more than any other WDH, but it does help you with sway which tends to be a larger issue when your trailer weighs more.

[Lzerarc]

Originally Posted by JohnD10

That weight doesn't just magically disappear...it has to go somewhere!

It is either on the truck or in the trailer, but is still there somewhere!

Which is another good reason why a WDH setup will not make a tow vehicle that is barely capable of the load any closer to being capable.

If anyone is this close to being overloaded (ie.- worrying about 200-300 pounds), then the best WDH system in the world in not the answer to your problems...

But in reality making them worse.

like many things on the interwebs, a lot of advice should be double checked and cross checked. There are blanket statements all over the place weight placed on or near the tongue (wdh for example) will increases the tw 1:1 and immediately go against the tv payload. We know thats not exactly true, and my own testing with a Sherline scale proves thats not true. However there are many claims that a lot of the weight of these hitches get transferred more to the tt axles vs the tv, thus reducing payload further.

This video is an example of how a WDH reduces the payload "felt" by the tv and sends some of the tw back on the tt axles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBZu39pQ8Gg

while I believe its good to have some level of safety built into the numbers, I also know there already is a lot of safety built into the engineering numbers on the truck. My point isnt suggesting to go over the numbers, but rather going up to or near the numbers isnt bad either.

We just got 10" of snow over the last week, and its currently -7 outside so I wont be heading to the scales anytime soon to re-verify stuff. luckily there is a couple months yet before towing season.

[Lzerarc]

I figured I would post an update to this thread. I decided to keep my truck since I really enjoy driving. I test drove several HD trucks. While I did like them, we decided towing 5k-7k miles a year wasnt worth the 20k miles of driving an HD truck the rest of it. Parking, gas, ease of in and out, just every day stuff. Ride of the Ram was pretty good, so that didnt bother be that much. Plus, this would have cost a lot more money over the long run since I have the majority of my truck paid down so I would be restarting some of the payments.

I updated my tires to Michelin LT tires and installed a ProPride hitch. I then took the rig to the scales and got my weights. I have very interesting findings, and further proof too many blanket statements on forums are tossed around. Best advice is to get things weighed and adjusted correctly. Loaded up I have about 150 lbs under GVWR and about 450 lbs under my axle ratings. I am 3420 lbs under my GCVWR.

As expensive as these hitches are, $1000 in tires and $2900 on the hitch was still much cheaper than getting a $45000 used gas HD truck.

Also for what its worth, my tongue weight is 880 lbs with the WD engaged. It is sending about 150 lbs of TW back to the trailer axles. The rig feels very stable and safe. The 3.5 eco has plenty of power to move the 7940 lb trailer (I did fill the fresh tank, we rarely tow with water but wanted to see what it did).

I believe trucks are engineered to tow to their ratings. I do not buy the argument that an HD truck can be at the ratings but a F150 can not be to be considered safe.

I have not towed a lot yet with the Propride, but the 100 miles I have on it so far, its as advertised. Rock solid, no movement in the trailer. Makes the truck feel much more planted and safe compared to the Equalizer I was using before. It is also easier to hitch/unhitch. Also much easier to dial in the WD and can adjust instantly vs friction hitches. I am sure the LT tires help some as well.

[FordHauler]

Congratulations on the new hitch.
I, like you, found this type of hitch to be the solution to my sway problems. It did make me feel safer while towing, much less stressed while driving and less tired at the end of the day. The truck is more planted to the road.
If I ever go back to a TT my Hensley is sitting in a box cleaned, lubed and ready to go.
Travel safe

[JohnD10]

Originally Posted by Lzerarc

I do not buy the argument that an HD truck can be at the ratings but a F150 can not be to be considered safe.

I don't believe that was the message from the people who talk about HD trucks.

The message is that now, with a non-HD truck, you are on the top edge of your tow capabilities with very little extra room to spare, where with an HD truck you would be closer to the middle of the truck's towing range.

Thus...a much safer pull!

But...to each their own!

[Seachaser186]

With your set up: truck, LT tires, and Propride you are good to go. You are better equipped safety wise than most of the stuff I see being towed down the highway.

[Go West]

Having towed thousands of miles with a Hensley Arrow and currently with a Husky Centerline 4-point hitch, both perform well and I've never had trailer sway with either hitch. With only negligible differences in the towing experience, I couldn't today justify the 600% increase in cost to get another Hensley.

Both of my trailers weighed well under the capacities of my tow vehicle. I believe that with a well-matched truck-trailer combo, any of the current design anti-sway hitches (properly set-up) can provide a safe, relaxed towing experience. I say that based on my own experience and what most owners report using hitches such as Equalizer, Blue Ox, Andersen, etc.

If I were at the top of my vehicle's tow ratings, I might think differently. The situation that Lzerarc describes is the only circumstance in which I would consider (again) making the substantial monetary investment in a Hensley or Pro-Pride hitch.

[tomkatb]

An interesting note.

You need to see a picture of the trailer used for testing.

It is a rather short two axle trailer. With aerodynamic flaired front and rear. Low profile.

Bears little resemblance to a 32’ box 11’ high. Nearly 350 square foot of sail. That will propel a #8000 sailboat to 7 knots. Will also turn it on it’s side(heal). In 15 mph breezes.

Glad to hear new tires and hitch do the job.

[dbledan]

Originally Posted by Lzerarc

I figured I would post an update to this thread. I decided to keep my truck since I really enjoy driving. I test drove several HD trucks. While I did like them, we decided towing 5k-7k miles a year wasnt worth the 20k miles of driving an HD truck the rest of it. Parking, gas, ease of in and out, just every day stuff. Ride of the Ram was pretty good, so that didnt bother be that much. Plus, this would have cost a lot more money over the long run since I have the majority of my truck paid down so I would be restarting some of the payments.

I updated my tires to Michelin LT tires and installed a ProPride hitch. I then took the rig to the scales and got my weights. I have very interesting findings, and further proof too many blanket statements on forums are tossed around. Best advice is to get things weighed and adjusted correctly. Loaded up I have about 150 lbs under GVWR and about 450 lbs under my axle ratings. I am 3420 lbs under my GCVWR.

As expensive as these hitches are, $1000 in tires and $2900 on the hitch was still much cheaper than getting a $45000 used gas HD truck.

Also for what its worth, my tongue weight is 880 lbs with the WD engaged. It is sending about 150 lbs of TW back to the trailer axles. The rig feels very stable and safe. The 3.5 eco has plenty of power to move the 7940 lb trailer (I did fill the fresh tank, we rarely tow with water but wanted to see what it did).

I believe trucks are engineered to tow to their ratings. I do not buy the argument that an HD truck can be at the ratings but a F150 can not be to be considered safe.

I have not towed a lot yet with the Propride, but the 100 miles I have on it so far, its as advertised. Rock solid, no movement in the trailer. Makes the truck feel much more planted and safe compared to the Equalizer I was using before. It is also easier to hitch/unhitch. Also much easier to dial in the WD and can adjust instantly vs friction hitches. I am sure the LT tires help some as well.

I came to the exact same conclusion but I have towed several thousand miles with it now and would still agree.

Glad you found a comfortable solution that worked for you. Thanks for providing an update.

[Lzerarc]

Originally Posted by JohnD10

I don't believe that was the message from the people who talk about HD trucks.

The message is that now, with a non-HD truck, you are on the top edge of your tow capabilities with very little extra room to spare, where with an HD truck you would be closer to the middle of the truck's towing range.

Thus...a much safer pull!

But...to each their own!

my point mainly was I see possibly more 3/4 towing a 5th wheel overloaded or at the max rating than I see half tons towing overloaded. A 3/4 diesel only has 300-400 lbs of more payload than my truck. I do realize the other ratings are quite a bit higher though. I would also not buy a diesel if I upgraded. But for some reason its ok for a 3/4 ton to be loaded right to the limits because its "engineered to tow" argument yet a 1/2 is commonly recommending to be no more than 60-80% of its ratings. However I will also agree my trailer is the max length and weight I would put on my truck before going to a 3/4 ton. Its still not completely out of the equation since I am right up against my payload limit, especially if I add bikes or kayaks to the back of the truck. Perfect situation for towing is this hitch with a 3/4 ton. However not perfect for the whole picture.

[Lzerarc]

Originally Posted by Go West

Having towed thousands of miles with a Hensley Arrow and currently with a Husky Centerline 4-point hitch, both perform well and I've never had trailer sway with either hitch. With only negligible differences in the towing experience, I couldn't today justify the 600% increase in cost to get another Hensley.

Both of my trailers weighed well under the capacities of my tow vehicle. I believe that with a well-matched truck-trailer combo, any of the current design anti-sway hitches (properly set-up) can provide a safe, relaxed towing experience. I say that based on my own experience and what most owners report using hitches such as Equalizer, Blue Ox, Andersen, etc.

If I were at the top of my vehicle's tow ratings, I might think differently. The situation that Lzerarc describes is the only circumstance in which I would consider (again) making the substantial monetary investment in a Hensley or Pro-Pride hitch.

I would agree. If my trailer was a little shorter and lighter, I would probably not be using the 3P. My equalizer towed our 6200 lb Passport really well. We sometimes tow a 24' Rockwood Minilite and I use the Fastway E2 on that and it works well. Like wise if we upgraded to an HD truck, I would have used my Equalizer first.

[Lzerarc]

Originally Posted by tomkatb

An interesting note.

You need to see a picture of the trailer used for testing.

It is a rather short two axle trailer. With aerodynamic flaired front and rear. Low profile.

Bears little resemblance to a 32’ box 11’ high. Nearly 350 square foot of sail. That will propel a #8000 sailboat to 7 knots. Will also turn it on it’s side(heal). In 15 mph breezes.

Glad to hear new tires and hitch do the job.

Me towing with the ProPride in 25-30 mph winds....

https://youtu.be/Zdob59ZYKgw

[Seachaser186]

Originally Posted by Lzerarc

Me towing with the ProPride in 25-30 mph winds....

https://youtu.be/Zdob59ZYKgw

Thanks for the video. Towed mine last week down I-10 in strong southeasterly winds blowing off the Gulf. I was thankful I spent the money on the Propride.