Hit the scales - Ram 3500 DRW + Sabre 36QBOK

[ependydad]

I've long been a proponent of getting weighed in order to be educated and well versed. The sad secret is that I've also been woefully hypocritical in that I've never weighed my combination.

Each trip, my focus has been on getting out of town or getting back home and weighing was just extra time that I couldn't bring myself to do. That and it was dang intimidating! I had to hit the truck stop and play with the big boys. I didn't want to be in the way or hold them up. So my nerves would get the best of me.

I finally weighed on my way out of town this trip. I'm moderately loaded from a personal effects perspective. We did not go grocery shopping (little food and more importantly - lots less water (we usually carry 7 1/2 gallons in 2.5 gallon containers AND have a case of 16oz bottles)) before hand and we slowly accumulate things across the trips (meaning, by the end of the season, I'm definitely heavier than the beginning). I did fill my freshwater tank 2/3 full. My black and gray tanks were all mostly empty (nominal amount of antifreeze in each). Propane tanks are mostly full and I made a point to fill up fuel before hitting the scales. Very little in the truck bed (but that's pretty normal for us). We had an average load of snacks and goodies in the truck (maybe short a few bottles of water).

Everyone DID stay in the truck in the same seats and all for all 3 weightings.

I did 3 weightings:

#1 - Truck and camper hitched up:


#2 - Dropped the camper in a parking spot and weighed truck only:


#3 - Split the trailer axles across 2 platforms to get individual axle weights:

[ependydad]

So, here's what I know and what I'm thinking:

1) My truck's GVWR is 12,300 pounds. With my wife, 2 kids, infant seat, booster seat, hitch, bed cover, our crap and I, the truck weighs 9,200 pounds (#2 above). That gives me a functional available payload of 3,100 pounds.

1a) This is especially interesting in that our "payload sticker" stays that we have 4,297 pounds of available payload when the truck came from the factory. This means that our weight, my add-ons and our stuff weighs 1,197 pounds.

2) I've calculated my pin weight to be 2,180 pounds. This was WAY lower than I expected. I figured this by:
First weigh ticket: steer axle (5,220) + drive axle (6,260) = 11,480 pounds
Second weigh ticket: steer axle (5,240) + drive axle (3,960) = 9,300 pounds
Subtracting these two: 2,180 pounds
Can anyone confirm this?

2a) In fact, I'm confused. For #2 - I'm seeing 2,300 pounds added to the rear axle. I'm seeing 20 pounds removed from the front axle. 2,300 - 20 = 2,280. Where did 100 pounds go?

3) Hitching up my fifth wheel unloads my front axle by 20 pounds. I didn't expect this. I would have expected *some* weight to be pushed to the front axle.
Is this normal? My B&W hitch is at the "center" position because that's what the hitch installer "normally does".

4) My trailer axles are within 20 pounds of each other. Strangely - when I add the weights of the 3rd weighing, it doesn't equal the trailer weight from the first weighing:
1st weighing: 11,560 pounds for trailer
3rd weighing: 5,820 + 5800 = 11,620
Diff: 60 pounds
Can anyone explain this?

5) To ensure that I'm under the trailer's GVWR (15,875) -- do I add the pin weight (2,180) to the trailer weight (11,560)? That's 13,740 pounds.

5a) If my total weight is 13,740 pounds, does that mean my pin weight percentage is just shy of 16%? (2,180/13,740=15.8%) Which kind of makes sense given the dual opposing slides in the bunkhouse.

6) I'm under my gross vehicle weigh (GVWR) and axle weights on both the truck and the trailer.

[lbrjet]

Second weigh ticket: steer axle (5,240) + drive axle (3,960) = 9,300 pounds

= 9200 lbs not 9300. Pin weight is 2280.

[SabreDoc]

Originally Posted by ependydad

This means that our weight, my add-ons and our stuff weighs 1,197 pounds.

Jenny Craig time.
Doc

[grayfox]

Just for the heck of it, did you get a weight with the landing gear on a section of the scale platform and the tandems on another section.?

[ependydad]

Corrections below based on lbrjet's comments above. Still a couple of questions (look for the italics).

----

2) I've calculated my pin weight to be 2,280 pounds. This was WAY lower than I expected. I figured this by:
First weigh ticket: steer axle (5,220) + drive axle (6,260) = 11,480 pounds
Second weigh ticket: steer axle (5,240) + drive axle (3,960) = 9,200 pounds
Subtracting these two: 2,280 pounds
Confirmed by lbrjet. Woot. Still way lower than I expected.

3) Hitching up my fifth wheel unloads my front axle by 20 pounds. I didn't expect this. I would have expected *some* weight to be pushed to the front axle.
Is this normal? My B&W hitch is at the "center" position because that's what the hitch installer "normally does".

4) My trailer axles are within 20 pounds of each other. Strangely - when I add the weights of the 3rd weighing, it doesn't equal the trailer weight from the first weighing:
1st weighing: 11,560 pounds for trailer
3rd weighing: 5,820 + 5800 = 11,620
Diff: 60 pounds
Can anyone explain this?

5) To ensure that I'm under the trailer's GVWR (15,875) -- do I add the pin weight (2,280) to the trailer weight (11,560)? That's 13,840 pounds.

5a) If my total weight is 13,840 pounds, does that mean my pin weight percentage is just shy of 16%? (2,180/13,840=15.75%) Which kind of makes sense given the dual opposing slides in the bunkhouse.

[ependydad]

Originally Posted by SabreDoc

Jenny Craig time.
Doc

LOL! Nah, according to my math - I've got a good 820 pounds until we're in trouble! Bring me deep fried pizza!

Originally Posted by grayfox

Just for the heck of it, did you get a weight with the landing gear on a section of the scale platform and the tandems on another section.?

I did not. With the gosh-awful slowness of the landing gear, this would have simply taken too much time and I would have been in the way. I was pretty surprised at how much traffic that scale had with commercial trucks. It was bad enough parking among them. (Funny story to that - I hit a blind spot as I was trying to park along side one; I must have looked rushed and concerned while a trucker waited. He waved - indicating that I had plenty of room and to go and laughed when I smiled/waved back. He was a godsend.)

[grayfox]

Originally Posted by ependydad

LOL! Nah, according to my math - I've got a good 820 pounds until we're in trouble! Bring me deep fried pizza!



I did not. With the gosh-awful slowness of the landing gear, this would have simply taken too much time and I would have been in the way. I was pretty surprised at how much traffic that scale had with commercial trucks. It was bad enough parking among them. (Funny story to that - I hit a blind spot as I was trying to park along side one; I must have looked rushed and concerned while a trucker waited. He waved - indicating that I had plenty of room and to go and laughed when I smiled/waved back. He was a godsend.)

Yep, I can understand that. I thought it would be interesting to see how the landing gear weight correlates to the pin weight, just a thought.

Hey, how about deep fried Twinkys ?

[SabreDoc]

Originally Posted by ependydad

LOL! Nah, according to my math - I've got a good 820 pounds until we're in trouble! Bring me deep fried pizza!

Stop! You're making me hungry!
Doc

[ependydad]

On edit- the propane tanks definitely were NOT full. Apparently they were flat out empty!

[MtnGuy]

Originally Posted by ependydad

3) Hitching up my fifth wheel unloads my front axle by 20 pounds. I didn't expect this. I would have expected *some* weight to be pushed to the front axle.
Is this normal? My B&W hitch is at the "center" position because that's what the hitch installer "normally does".

How about this: Your installer placed the hitch at the center position with your bed "unloaded". When the rear of the truck sinks some with a load, could the hitch now be slightly behind the rear axle ??

I don't have a 5th wheel (yet), but I thought they were supposed to be slightly in front of the rear axle.

Originally Posted by ependydad

4) My trailer axles are within 20 pounds of each other. Strangely - when I add the weights of the 3rd weighing, it doesn't equal the trailer weight from the first weighing:
1st weighing: 11,560 pounds for trailer
3rd weighing: 5,820 + 5800 = 11,620
Diff: 60 pounds
Can anyone explain this?

What is 60 lbs. amongst friends ?? Since the truck scales are in 20 lbs. increments, and you are doing 2 axles, that might account for 40 lbs. My thought is that since the axles are so close together, and need to be at the very edge of each section, the scales may not be quite as accurate as if they would have been centered on the sections better. That's my story, and I sticking to it.

Originally Posted by ependydad

5) To ensure that I'm under the trailer's GVWR (15,875) -- do I add the pin weight (2,280) to the trailer weight (11,560)? That's 13,840 pounds.

I would say yes....the 2 need to be added together to get your total weight.

Originally Posted by ependydad

5a) If my total weight is 13,840 pounds, does that mean my pin weight percentage is just shy of 16%? (2,180/13,840=15.75%) Which kind of makes sense given the dual opposing slides in the bunkhouse.

2280 lbs. (corrected) divided by the total weight of 13,840 gives you a 16% hitch weight.

Great job on getting your weights !!!

[ependydad]

Chap-

I like and can agree with your answers.

I can't say anything about how the guy did the fifth wheel. I think he literally went with the "middle" position "just because". I'm going to look around for some other folks weights to see what they say.

The 60 pounds makes sense, too- I didn't realize the scales were 20lb. increments. And, you're sure right- I was at the very edge of both scales. Between the narrowest part of the tires is only an inch and a quarter or something.

I still feel like 16% is pretty low for a fifth wheel pin weight. I'd always heard 20-25%. Crap- I might not have needed a dually!

[Oaklevel]

1a) This is especially interesting in that our "payload sticker" stays that we have 4,297 pounds of available payload when the truck came from the factory. This means that our weight, my add-ons and our stuff weighs 1,197 pounds.

I don't think the sticker includes the weight of 35 gallons of fuel & the other liquids added to your add ons (hitch bed cover etc.) 1,197 sounds about right. Esp with all the stuff you have to have for the kids The kids stuff probably weighs that by itself........

[ependydad]

I did think it included a full fuel tank, but doesn't include any occupants (including driver- based on wording in the manual).

The add-ons would be the turnover ball gooseneck hitch, the Companion fifth wheel hitch, Retrax pro bed cover are the biggies. Figure 700 pounds of people weight and then the 2 car seats. Plus a variety of guides, foods and activities for the kids.

It all adds up. Very enlightening! I never would have guessed I'm as close as 800 pounds to my GVWR on a dually (even if it's a Dodge).

[PHS79]

Originally Posted by ependydad

3) Hitching up my fifth wheel unloads my front axle by 20 pounds. I didn't expect this. I would have expected *some* weight to be pushed to the front axle.
Is this normal? My B&W hitch is at the "center" position because that's what the hitch installer "normally does".

I have installed a couple of 5th wheel hitches and GN hitches before, and I always placed center of the hitch 2-3" forward of the axle. I also know that the local welding shop installs GN hitches 2" forward also. I was always taught that a GN or 5th wheel hitch was supposed to put a little bit of weight onto the front axle.

[bakken]

Originally Posted by PHS79

I have installed a couple of 5th wheel hitches and GN hitches before, and I always placed center of the hitch 2-3" forward of the axle. I also know that the local welding shop installs GN hitches 2" forward also. I was always taught that a GN or 5th wheel hitch was supposed to put a little bit of weight onto the front axle.

From what I understand the pin should not be directly over the rear axle, and definitely never behind.
Ours, is a full 4 inches in front, but I think that is about maximum.

[ependydad]

Originally Posted by PHS79

I have installed a couple of 5th wheel hitches and GN hitches before, and I always placed center of the hitch 2-3" forward of the axle. I also know that the local welding shop installs GN hitches 2" forward also. I was always taught that a GN or 5th wheel hitch was supposed to put a little bit of weight onto the front axle.

That's the thing- I'm definitely UN-loading the front axle by 20 pounds and have the numbers to prove it.

I've also had some situations where it feels a tiny bit squirrelly - almost like sway was happening (but mirrors confirmed it wasn't).

I think I've decided - I'm going to adjust the hitch forward and see how it goes. If any fifth wheel owners have scaled with and without camper, I'd love to know your front axle weights.

[mhuffs9017]

Great thread, subscribing.

[Lynkage]

Mine is the factory ford hitch and it is 2" forward of the axle. my 14K 355bhq puts 60lbs on the front axle by my CAT measuerments.

[ependydad]

Originally Posted by Lynkage

Mine is the factory ford hitch and it is 2" forward of the axle. my 14K 355bhq puts 60lbs on the front axle by my CAT measuerments.

Thanks Lynkage- we have similar sized campers. It's good to read.

I just wish I knew better where my axle is in relation to the hitch. I'm going to have to crawl under tomorrow and check it out.