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05-14-2017, 07:03 PM
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#1
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 62
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How close on axle weights?
I bought a 2017 F350 and this truck is taller than my 2012 so the front of my Rockwood 8289WS was raised up to get the rail clearance on the truck. I measured 8" higher in the front over the rear. So I was wondering what this did to my rear axle weight. I went to the scale last weekend and split the axles on the scale.
Front axle 2920
Rear axle 4240
That is a huge difference and the rear is 240# over the max weight of the 4000# axle. So after reading a few posts on here I decided to do the lift kit on the camper. I received the kit for the Dexter #10 axles Friday. Finished installing yesterday and went to reweigh.
Front axle 3210
Rear axle 3900
So now there is only 2" difference from front to rear and I am below axle weight by 100#. So after all this my question to people is how close are you on your axle weights if you have measured them separately. I was well below on my totals and would never have known there was a problem unless I weighed separate.
__________________
2013 Rockwood 8289WS
2017 F350 6.7 PS extra cab long bed
Curt G25 hitch
Days camping 2016 - 26
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05-14-2017, 07:27 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Wilmington, De
Posts: 239
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Looks good now, was there any adjustment on the 5th wheel head itself?
How much clearance now between bed rail and camper?
The reason for the questions is that I am thinking of a new F350 myself
By the way, nice job!
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05-14-2017, 07:31 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,183
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I bought and installed the same kit on my 8289WS. When I changed trucks to my Ram the RV was 5" high in the front. The lift brought it to within an inch or two and lowering the hitch in the bed to the bottom got it level. I have 6" bed rail clearance.
__________________
Joe & Beverly
2014 Ram 2500 CTD, CC, SB
2014 8289WS lifted
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05-14-2017, 07:34 PM
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#4
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brookstone345sa
Looks good now, was there any adjustment on the 5th wheel head itself?
How much clearance now between bed rail and camper?
The reason for the questions is that I am thinking of a new F350 myself
By the way, nice job!
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I dropped the pin box 2" to get me to 6" of rail clearance
__________________
2013 Rockwood 8289WS
2017 F350 6.7 PS extra cab long bed
Curt G25 hitch
Days camping 2016 - 26
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05-16-2017, 11:58 AM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Yellowknife
Posts: 1,162
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I've always wondered how much load people are putting on a back axle when a trailer is not level. Now I have an idea. Nice job actually taking it to the scale to find out.
__________________
2007 Rockwood 2701SS
2017 Ram 2500 Granite Crystal SAP Laramie 6.7L
2014 Triumph Bonneville. NH Togas, tuned
1953 GMC 9314
1982 GoldWing Interstate
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05-16-2017, 12:03 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,464
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When i went from Ford to my Ram, i ended up lowering the truck and the hitch head to bring it back level.
I didnt want the trailer any higher.
__________________
2017 Dynamax Isata 4
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05-16-2017, 03:13 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 2,481
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Interesting topic.. is there a huge risk to the axle if you're a little over? I had mine weighed last weekend on my bumper pull trailer and I was within 160 lbs of the max on my Escalade. I know when my teenager and wife gets in the truck I'll be much closer if not over.
Is it a huge deal if you exceed by 200lbs?
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05-16-2017, 04:14 PM
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#8
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Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Abbotsford BC
Posts: 5
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Reading the interesting thread on weight distribution on your springs and axles if the RV is not level with truck. I have a 2013 Ford 350 towing a 2013 RST Crusader along Hwy I40 toward Las Vegas after hitting a pothole my spring bent on the left rear axle sliding it forward into the next tire causing a little burnt rubber,had to replace 3 tires because the rear axle alignment cause the other tire uneven wear. Found the Manufacture just places the minimum spring load for the Axle which can take more. Replaced all springs to Maximum Load for the Axle capabilities. It raised my RV almost level with the Truck, which before has a difference of 4 inches to being level. So reading your threads about even weight on all axles is what manufacture rate their springs. It appear it make a big difference in your axle if it is uneven.
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05-16-2017, 04:29 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 1,363
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Never have underwood the Fiats and their redonculous heights. I see this 5er problem often.
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05-17-2017, 02:57 AM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 177
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My suggestion is that canterburyshoe talk to an applications engineer at Dexter axle. These people are very knowlegeable and very helpful.
The rear axle loaded to 98% (3900#) 2% margin, is a failure waiting to happen.
Even if both axle were evenly loaded, they would be at 89% capacity (7110#) 11% margin.
I belive Dexter recommends a 20% margin on torsion axles to accomodate side to side loading differences and front to back axle loading differences.
It is quite possible that you could go to a 5200# 11 series axle changing from a 22.5 degree start angle to a 45 degree start angle, gaining 2 inches of height and reduce the axle loading to 68% of capacity.
For what it's worth,
John U
__________________
2007 Rockwood 8315SS Sold 11/19
2014 Silverado 2500HD 6.0L Sold 11/19
Back on the road 10/20
2010 Born Free 22RSK
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05-17-2017, 05:32 AM
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#11
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 62
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It's always driven me crazy how camper manufacturers can get away with using the absolute minimum weight capacities on axles and tires. I have a camper with 9500 GVW but only two 4000# axles. They justify this because you subtract the pin weight, 1820 on mine. Same with the tires. Only rated for 8400#. I think everything put on the trailer should be rated for full GVW.
__________________
2013 Rockwood 8289WS
2017 F350 6.7 PS extra cab long bed
Curt G25 hitch
Days camping 2016 - 26
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05-17-2017, 09:51 AM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Yellowknife
Posts: 1,162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midnightpumpkin
I belive Dexter recommends a 20% margin on torsion axles to accomodate side to side loading differences and front to back axle loading differences.
For what it's worth,
John U
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I think any margins should be built into the axle rating.
__________________
2007 Rockwood 2701SS
2017 Ram 2500 Granite Crystal SAP Laramie 6.7L
2014 Triumph Bonneville. NH Togas, tuned
1953 GMC 9314
1982 GoldWing Interstate
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05-17-2017, 09:57 AM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 1,363
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How close on axle weights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by canterburyshoe
It's always driven me crazy how camper manufacturers can get away with using the absolute minimum weight capacities on axles and tires. I have a camper with 9500 GVW but only two 4000# axles. They justify this because you subtract the pin weight, 1820 on mine. Same with the tires. Only rated for 8400#. I think everything put on the trailer should be rated for full GVW.
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General RV industry "cheapness" aside, what you are describing is absolutely correct.
The axles on a trailer to no carry 100% of the trailer weight, so there is no need to have axles rated to do so.
Having axles rated for full GVWR doesn't hurt anything but is silly to do so when costs affect competitiveness and is not required.
They aren't "getting away with it", the axles simply do not carry 100% and never will.
Also, 8,400 lbs of tire rating is above the 8,000 lbs of axles so no issue there.
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05-17-2017, 11:00 AM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canterburyshoe
It's always driven me crazy how camper manufacturers can get away with using the absolute minimum weight capacities on axles and tires. I have a camper with 9500 GVW but only two 4000# axles. They justify this because you subtract the pin weight, 1820 on mine. Same with the tires. Only rated for 8400#. I think everything put on the trailer should be rated for full GVW.
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Not all MFG's skimp on axles and tires. It pays to shop around.
What you end up with when you get skimpy axles is really low CCC for the trailer. So with just normal loading of the trailer you overload the axles.
Looking for high CCC is the key to not having to replace suspension components.
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07-21-2017, 06:46 PM
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#15
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 70
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Axle ratings
It would be interesting to know what the limiting factor is on the axle rating for the torsion axles, and what happens if you overload. Maybe all that happens is that you exceed the specified full load deflection and risk bumping the wheel well liner.
__________________
2010 Rockwood 8280WS Fifth Wheel
2013 F350 Crew Cab SRW, Standard Bed PS Diesel
Reese Airborne Pin Box, Reese 16K Manual Slider.
Camped 36 Days in 2012, 23 Days in 2013, 35 Days in 2014, 30 Days in 2015, 46 Days in 2016, 5 days in 2017.
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07-22-2017, 07:30 AM
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#16
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Conroe, TX
Posts: 333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canterburyshoe
It's always driven me crazy how camper manufacturers can get away with using the absolute minimum weight capacities on axles and tires. I have a camper with 9500 GVW but only two 4000# axles. They justify this because you subtract the pin weight, 1820 on mine. Same with the tires. Only rated for 8400#. I think everything put on the trailer should be rated for full GVW.
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What's worse is that there is pretty much no regards to side-to-side weight distribution on RVs (think about an RV with three slides on one side and none on the other). So the OP was 200 lbs over on his rear axle, but could have been been grossly overloaded on the left or right side with regard to tire/wheel capacity.
So even with an axle at max gross weight, one side is most likely overloaded.
I firmly believe that a big percentage of blowouts are due to this.
__________________
2021 Ram 1500 Big Horn LvL2 Quad Cab 4x4 5.7L 3.92
Trailer Steering and Integrated Trailer TPMS
GVWR: 7100
GAWRF: 3900 GAWRR: 4100 GCWR: 17,000
Payload Sticker: 1,867 lbs Tow Capacity: 11,767 lbs
Towing a nice 5th wheel near you
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07-22-2017, 07:34 AM
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#17
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Conroe, TX
Posts: 333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny kustom
When i went from Ford to my Ram, i ended up lowering the truck and the hitch head to bring it back level.
I didnt want the trailer any higher.
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I pondered going this route when we upgrade to a 5'er. How did you lower your truck? Swapped to 4x2 springs? Thanks
__________________
2021 Ram 1500 Big Horn LvL2 Quad Cab 4x4 5.7L 3.92
Trailer Steering and Integrated Trailer TPMS
GVWR: 7100
GAWRF: 3900 GAWRR: 4100 GCWR: 17,000
Payload Sticker: 1,867 lbs Tow Capacity: 11,767 lbs
Towing a nice 5th wheel near you
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07-22-2017, 07:40 AM
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#18
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Conroe, TX
Posts: 333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 325BH
Never have underwood the Fiats and their redonculous heights. I see this 5er problem often.
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Yeah, usually not a Ford problem as they squat so readily.
__________________
2021 Ram 1500 Big Horn LvL2 Quad Cab 4x4 5.7L 3.92
Trailer Steering and Integrated Trailer TPMS
GVWR: 7100
GAWRF: 3900 GAWRR: 4100 GCWR: 17,000
Payload Sticker: 1,867 lbs Tow Capacity: 11,767 lbs
Towing a nice 5th wheel near you
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07-22-2017, 10:10 AM
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#19
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goduc
Not all MFG's skimp on axles and tires. It pays to shop around. What you end up with when you get skimpy axles is really low CCC for the trailer. So with just normal loading of the trailer you overload the axles...
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Our PT Tracer @ 6,500 empty has the same 4,000 lb. axles as PT's Lacrosse @ 7,500 w/same floor plan. (Lacrosse has higher ceiling, ceramic toilet, etc...) However, both have the same GVW rating, so mine is actually rated to handle 1,000 lbs. more cargo (over 2,500) which I can't imagine doing. With a lot of stuff packed for our family of 5, we've never gone above 8,200 & 1200+ of that is on the hitch...
At max capacity the axles are supposed to handle rough roads & have some built-in safety margin in their engineering specs, etc... But it's nice to know that I have 1,000 lbs. of wiggle-room on the combined axles - especially when I hit rough section of road and/or cannot miss potholes without hitting something else...
__________________
2011 RAM 2500 ST Crew Cab 5.7 Hemi
2011 Primetime 3150BHD Touring Edition
Days camped in 2018- 25
2017- 31; 2016- 36; 2015- 37; 2014- 31
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07-23-2017, 06:43 AM
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#20
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Columbia SC
Posts: 108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canterburyshoe
It's always driven me crazy how camper manufacturers cahn get away with using the absolute minimum weight capacities on axles and tires. I have a camper with 9500 GVW but only two 4000# axles. They justify this because you subtract the pin weight, 1820 on mine. Same with the tires. Only rated for 8400#. I think everything put on the trailer should be rated for full GVW.
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The TT GVW is set by the weakest link. Personally I prefer the fail point to be a tire or axle instead of the frame or tongue.
The TT GVW, like a truck's max payload, isn't the suggested operating weight, it is the maximum weight the TT is designed to operate at. Just as many here suggest buying a TT with some reserve over the expect cargo and towing needs, the same advice is pertinent when considering a TT GVWR.
__________________
2016 f150 xlt scab 5.0 4x2 3.55 locking axle 36 gal fuel tank
2013 F150 xl std cab 8ft bed 4x2 3.7 3.55
2017 Micro lite 25DKS
2007 Thor Cub 165 hybrid
Husky round bar hitch
2006 Honda Shadow and 13ft canoe in the truck bed
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