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Old 05-14-2017, 07:03 PM   #1
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How close on axle weights?

I bought a 2017 F350 and this truck is taller than my 2012 so the front of my Rockwood 8289WS was raised up to get the rail clearance on the truck. I measured 8" higher in the front over the rear. So I was wondering what this did to my rear axle weight. I went to the scale last weekend and split the axles on the scale.
Front axle 2920
Rear axle 4240
That is a huge difference and the rear is 240# over the max weight of the 4000# axle. So after reading a few posts on here I decided to do the lift kit on the camper. I received the kit for the Dexter #10 axles Friday. Finished installing yesterday and went to reweigh.
Front axle 3210
Rear axle 3900
So now there is only 2" difference from front to rear and I am below axle weight by 100#. So after all this my question to people is how close are you on your axle weights if you have measured them separately. I was well below on my totals and would never have known there was a problem unless I weighed separate.
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Old 05-14-2017, 07:27 PM   #2
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Looks good now, was there any adjustment on the 5th wheel head itself?
How much clearance now between bed rail and camper?

The reason for the questions is that I am thinking of a new F350 myself

By the way, nice job!
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Old 05-14-2017, 07:31 PM   #3
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I bought and installed the same kit on my 8289WS. When I changed trucks to my Ram the RV was 5" high in the front. The lift brought it to within an inch or two and lowering the hitch in the bed to the bottom got it level. I have 6" bed rail clearance.

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Old 05-14-2017, 07:34 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brookstone345sa View Post
Looks good now, was there any adjustment on the 5th wheel head itself?
How much clearance now between bed rail and camper?

The reason for the questions is that I am thinking of a new F350 myself

By the way, nice job!

I dropped the pin box 2" to get me to 6" of rail clearance
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Old 05-16-2017, 11:58 AM   #5
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I've always wondered how much load people are putting on a back axle when a trailer is not level. Now I have an idea. Nice job actually taking it to the scale to find out.
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Old 05-16-2017, 12:03 PM   #6
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When i went from Ford to my Ram, i ended up lowering the truck and the hitch head to bring it back level.
I didnt want the trailer any higher.
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Old 05-16-2017, 03:13 PM   #7
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Interesting topic.. is there a huge risk to the axle if you're a little over? I had mine weighed last weekend on my bumper pull trailer and I was within 160 lbs of the max on my Escalade. I know when my teenager and wife gets in the truck I'll be much closer if not over.

Is it a huge deal if you exceed by 200lbs?
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Old 05-16-2017, 04:14 PM   #8
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Reading the interesting thread on weight distribution on your springs and axles if the RV is not level with truck. I have a 2013 Ford 350 towing a 2013 RST Crusader along Hwy I40 toward Las Vegas after hitting a pothole my spring bent on the left rear axle sliding it forward into the next tire causing a little burnt rubber,had to replace 3 tires because the rear axle alignment cause the other tire uneven wear. Found the Manufacture just places the minimum spring load for the Axle which can take more. Replaced all springs to Maximum Load for the Axle capabilities. It raised my RV almost level with the Truck, which before has a difference of 4 inches to being level. So reading your threads about even weight on all axles is what manufacture rate their springs. It appear it make a big difference in your axle if it is uneven.
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Old 05-16-2017, 04:29 PM   #9
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Never have underwood the Fiats and their redonculous heights. I see this 5er problem often.
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Old 05-17-2017, 02:57 AM   #10
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My suggestion is that canterburyshoe talk to an applications engineer at Dexter axle. These people are very knowlegeable and very helpful.

The rear axle loaded to 98% (3900#) 2% margin, is a failure waiting to happen.
Even if both axle were evenly loaded, they would be at 89% capacity (7110#) 11% margin.

I belive Dexter recommends a 20% margin on torsion axles to accomodate side to side loading differences and front to back axle loading differences.

It is quite possible that you could go to a 5200# 11 series axle changing from a 22.5 degree start angle to a 45 degree start angle, gaining 2 inches of height and reduce the axle loading to 68% of capacity.

For what it's worth,
John U
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Old 05-17-2017, 05:32 AM   #11
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It's always driven me crazy how camper manufacturers can get away with using the absolute minimum weight capacities on axles and tires. I have a camper with 9500 GVW but only two 4000# axles. They justify this because you subtract the pin weight, 1820 on mine. Same with the tires. Only rated for 8400#. I think everything put on the trailer should be rated for full GVW.
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Old 05-17-2017, 09:51 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by midnightpumpkin View Post

I belive Dexter recommends a 20% margin on torsion axles to accomodate side to side loading differences and front to back axle loading differences.

For what it's worth,
John U
I think any margins should be built into the axle rating.
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Old 05-17-2017, 09:57 AM   #13
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How close on axle weights?

Quote:
Originally Posted by canterburyshoe View Post
It's always driven me crazy how camper manufacturers can get away with using the absolute minimum weight capacities on axles and tires. I have a camper with 9500 GVW but only two 4000# axles. They justify this because you subtract the pin weight, 1820 on mine. Same with the tires. Only rated for 8400#. I think everything put on the trailer should be rated for full GVW.


General RV industry "cheapness" aside, what you are describing is absolutely correct.

The axles on a trailer to no carry 100% of the trailer weight, so there is no need to have axles rated to do so.

Having axles rated for full GVWR doesn't hurt anything but is silly to do so when costs affect competitiveness and is not required.

They aren't "getting away with it", the axles simply do not carry 100% and never will.

Also, 8,400 lbs of tire rating is above the 8,000 lbs of axles so no issue there.
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Old 05-17-2017, 11:00 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canterburyshoe View Post
It's always driven me crazy how camper manufacturers can get away with using the absolute minimum weight capacities on axles and tires. I have a camper with 9500 GVW but only two 4000# axles. They justify this because you subtract the pin weight, 1820 on mine. Same with the tires. Only rated for 8400#. I think everything put on the trailer should be rated for full GVW.
Not all MFG's skimp on axles and tires. It pays to shop around.
What you end up with when you get skimpy axles is really low CCC for the trailer. So with just normal loading of the trailer you overload the axles.
Looking for high CCC is the key to not having to replace suspension components.
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Old 07-21-2017, 06:46 PM   #15
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Axle ratings

It would be interesting to know what the limiting factor is on the axle rating for the torsion axles, and what happens if you overload. Maybe all that happens is that you exceed the specified full load deflection and risk bumping the wheel well liner.
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Old 07-22-2017, 07:30 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canterburyshoe View Post
It's always driven me crazy how camper manufacturers can get away with using the absolute minimum weight capacities on axles and tires. I have a camper with 9500 GVW but only two 4000# axles. They justify this because you subtract the pin weight, 1820 on mine. Same with the tires. Only rated for 8400#. I think everything put on the trailer should be rated for full GVW.
What's worse is that there is pretty much no regards to side-to-side weight distribution on RVs (think about an RV with three slides on one side and none on the other). So the OP was 200 lbs over on his rear axle, but could have been been grossly overloaded on the left or right side with regard to tire/wheel capacity.

So even with an axle at max gross weight, one side is most likely overloaded.

I firmly believe that a big percentage of blowouts are due to this.
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Old 07-22-2017, 07:34 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny kustom View Post
When i went from Ford to my Ram, i ended up lowering the truck and the hitch head to bring it back level.
I didnt want the trailer any higher.

I pondered going this route when we upgrade to a 5'er. How did you lower your truck? Swapped to 4x2 springs? Thanks
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Old 07-22-2017, 07:40 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 325BH View Post
Never have underwood the Fiats and their redonculous heights. I see this 5er problem often.
Yeah, usually not a Ford problem as they squat so readily.
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Old 07-22-2017, 10:10 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goduc View Post
Not all MFG's skimp on axles and tires. It pays to shop around. What you end up with when you get skimpy axles is really low CCC for the trailer. So with just normal loading of the trailer you overload the axles...
Our PT Tracer @ 6,500 empty has the same 4,000 lb. axles as PT's Lacrosse @ 7,500 w/same floor plan. (Lacrosse has higher ceiling, ceramic toilet, etc...) However, both have the same GVW rating, so mine is actually rated to handle 1,000 lbs. more cargo (over 2,500) which I can't imagine doing. With a lot of stuff packed for our family of 5, we've never gone above 8,200 & 1200+ of that is on the hitch...

At max capacity the axles are supposed to handle rough roads & have some built-in safety margin in their engineering specs, etc... But it's nice to know that I have 1,000 lbs. of wiggle-room on the combined axles - especially when I hit rough section of road and/or cannot miss potholes without hitting something else...
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Old 07-23-2017, 06:43 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canterburyshoe View Post
It's always driven me crazy how camper manufacturers cahn get away with using the absolute minimum weight capacities on axles and tires. I have a camper with 9500 GVW but only two 4000# axles. They justify this because you subtract the pin weight, 1820 on mine. Same with the tires. Only rated for 8400#. I think everything put on the trailer should be rated for full GVW.
The TT GVW is set by the weakest link. Personally I prefer the fail point to be a tire or axle instead of the frame or tongue.

The TT GVW, like a truck's max payload, isn't the suggested operating weight, it is the maximum weight the TT is designed to operate at. Just as many here suggest buying a TT with some reserve over the expect cargo and towing needs, the same advice is pertinent when considering a TT GVWR.
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