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Old 07-09-2019, 01:40 AM   #1
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How close to over weight is my (and your) trailer G19FD

Well, wondering if this might get any response ? Are my weights reasonable?
I have a 2019 Geo Pro G19FD, and am at the top end of Factory max trailer weight. Factory says 2840 lbs dry +1060 lbs of goodies = 3900 lbs. I loaded everything up in the trailer and the truck that I could think of, and filled it with fresh water (I already reinforced the FW tank with 3" Aluminum angle, and 5 ribs). BW and GW tanks were empty. I only drive full of water a few times a year, but wanted to see where I stand. I have GY 15" Endurance tires @ 80psi (load range E), and a Husky CL TS WDH with 800-1200 bars (perfectly adjusted, after a lot of work). 4 Trojan 6V batteries on the A frame just behind the 2 full propane tanks. Has Torflex single 3500 lb axle. Tongue weight is at 800 lbs. (18.5%). TV is Ford 2016 F150 4x4 short bed Crewcab with tow package.

Sticker says Trailer GVWR is 3890 lbs. (based probably with cheap factory tires)
Took to the CAT scales, and this is what I got:
Truck weight with WDH engaged: 6880 lbs.
Truck weight without WDH engaged: 7080 lbs
Trailer axle with WDH engaged: 3740 lbs.
Trailer axle without WDH engaged: 3520 lbs.

BUT, the weight calculator comes up with: ( Actual Weights - Travel Trailer/Bumper Pull Weights from CAT Scales - Towing Planner) says my camper weight is 4320 lbs, also says Truck only weight is 6280 lbs
(Gross combined weight 10620 lbs.) All the scale weights include the trailer tires in a weight tag, which I never see anyone saying anything about why they are figured in.
Lots of numbers, ...who has a clear head to explain the results, please.
(My concern is that if I seldom drive with water, which even brings my numbers down), without water, can I subtract the water weight (250 lbs.), and the tires (maybe 150 lbs), to realistically see normally what I weigh? Looks like I'm safely under the max Trailer and axle recommendations. What's your trailer look like ? I know the larger safety margin the better, and the rig drives smooth and sweet, I keep it under 65mph, just wish I could get more that 10.5 mpg! I was told as long as my Torflex axle maintains a slight upward bow forever, as designed, I'm not doing bad. Any thoughts much appreciated!
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Old 07-09-2019, 09:40 AM   #2
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Thatís my site/calculator.

Can you post all of the numbers from the 3 weight slips?

And being maxed out on the trailer is VERY common. Good on you for actually weighing the setup.
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Old 07-09-2019, 01:20 PM   #3
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Just because some of the camper weight is on the hitch doesn't mean the camper doesn't weigh both the axle and hitch weights combined. Granted you mainly just need to keep the axle weights under the axle ratings minus the weight of the tires and brakes as the axle doesn't carry those weights, but it seems you are over those as absolutely the weight transferred there by the WDH counts.

I'd say what you have is too much battery and propane for such a small trailer. They probably should just put 5000 pound axle ratings under all those single axle campers to give them a little more room. Probably cost less than $100 more each from the factory.
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Old 07-09-2019, 03:08 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Hersbird View Post
Just because some of the camper weight is on the hitch doesn't mean the camper doesn't weigh both the axle and hitch weights combined. Granted you mainly just need to keep the axle weights under the axle ratings minus the weight of the tires and brakes as the axle doesn't carry those weights, but it seems you are over those as absolutely the weight transferred there by the WDH counts.

I'd say what you have is too much battery and propane for such a small trailer. They probably should just put 5000 pound axle ratings under all those single axle campers to give them a little more room. Probably cost less than $100 more each from the factory.
I don't understand that statement. When your on the scale it is not telling you what your axles are carrying. It tells you the weight that is in contact with the scale which includes the brakes and tires. If you get pulled over for over weight the cop isn't going to say your brakes and tires weight xxx amount so we deduct that from our scale weight.
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Old 07-09-2019, 03:13 PM   #5
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You have a 1 in a million chance of a police officer pulling over a non commercial vehicle and weighing it. Buy a power ball ticket first/ you have better odds. (at least in any state I have ever been in/lived)
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Old 07-09-2019, 03:27 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Treybecky View Post
(My concern is that if I seldom drive with water, which even brings my numbers down), without water, can I subtract the water weight (250 lbs.), and the tires (maybe 150 lbs), to realistically see normally what I weigh?
If you're not carrying water, then you don't have to worry about that 250 lbs.

But the tires + whatnot DO count. It all comes down to the trailer's GVWR which is all parts of the trailer from what the tow vehicle carries in tongue weight to what the axles carry to the axles + tires themselves. You do not get the 150 lbs. back.
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Old 07-09-2019, 03:27 PM   #7
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Heres actual weights G19fd; is GVWR OK or is it overweight

Truck with Camper hooked up with WDH:
Steer 3260
Drive 3620
TT Axle 3740

Truck with Camper hooked up WITHOUT WDH:
Steer 2960
Drive 4120
TT Axle 3520

Truck Only: (2016 F150 4x4 shortbed with Tow package)
Steer 3340
Drive 2940

Gross Combined:
10620

Truck weight hitched with WDH:
6680

Truck Weight only:
6280

Camper Weight:
4320

Tongue weight:
800 18.5%


Yes, my tongue weight is high, but I think its within tolerances for my Truck Model.

So what worries me is the "camper weight" of 4320. If the Axles are rated for 3500, and the Trailer axle weight that the scale sees is 3740, am I ok ? I know i will be over a bit when full of FW tank, but the seldom times I drive with a full tank of water, is "ok", if Im careful?

Im confused, that I see different specs, whats most important...
GVWR: 3890 (on sticker on side of trailer)
Trailer axle CAT weight (with WDH): 3740

Dexter Torflex 3500 lb Axle (single)
The calculator says Camper weight: 4320 (probably sees this as unhooked?)

Im trying to ask Dextor what my Torflex 3500 axle is rated at ? Why does FR put a 3500 axle on a trailer that the sticker says GVRW 3890 > I assume maybe it has something to do with hooked up and some weight (800 lbs) is borne by the truck ?? But, I dont understand what the definition of GVWR, from Google:
"Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR): is the maximum permissible weight of the vehicle or trailer when fully loaded for travel. This includes the unloaded vehicle weight, all fluids, cargo, optional equipment and accessories. The tow vehicle and trailer each have a GVWR."
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Old 07-09-2019, 03:29 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hersbird View Post
JGranted you mainly just need to keep the axle weights under the axle ratings
When I buckled my camper frame, I was overweight by 1,000 lbs. but never exceeded the axle's weight rating.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimber45 View Post
You have a 1 in a million chance of a police officer pulling over a non commercial vehicle and weighing it. Buy a power ball ticket first/ you have better odds. (at least in any state I have ever been in/lived)
IMO, it's not about legality as it is about longevity of the trailer itself.

Been there, done that.
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Old 07-09-2019, 03:57 PM   #9
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When I buckled my camper frame, I was overweight by 1,000 lbs. but never exceeded the

Good point. You say you were not over on the axle spec ... In my case tho, I am over on the "3500 Axle rating" by 240 lbs, if you use the CAT Trailer Axle Weight of 3740 when hooked up to the WDH (by far, the damage will happen when rockin' down a bumpy road, not statically just sitting still).

But, Im not over the Sticker GVRW of 3890 compared to the "Axle weight hooked up" (3740). But I am over if you use the Calculator number of 4320.

I respect the "real world" experiences by you and others on this forum, appreciate if Im going to bend the box, and not the axles. Tell what happened to you please when you were 1000 lbs over, and what was the spec you used to say it was 1000 lbs over ? GVRW?
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Old 07-09-2019, 04:33 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Treybecky View Post
Truck with Camper hooked up with WDH:
Steer 3260
Drive 3620
TT Axle 3740

Truck with Camper hooked up WITHOUT WDH:
Steer 2960
Drive 4120
TT Axle 3520

Truck Only: (2016 F150 4x4 shortbed with Tow package)
Steer 3340
Drive 2940

Gross Combined:
10620

Truck weight hitched with WDH:
6680

Truck Weight only:
6280

Camper Weight:
4320

Tongue weight:
800 18.5%


Yes, my tongue weight is high, but I think its within tolerances for my Truck Model.

So what worries me is the "camper weight" of 4320. If the Axles are rated for 3500, and the Trailer axle weight that the scale sees is 3740, am I ok ? I know i will be over a bit when full of FW tank, but the seldom times I drive with a full tank of water, is "ok", if Im careful?

Im confused, that I see different specs, whats most important...
GVWR: 3890 (on sticker on side of trailer)
Trailer axle CAT weight (with WDH): 3740

Dexter Torflex 3500 lb Axle (single)
The calculator says Camper weight: 4320 (probably sees this as unhooked?)

Im trying to ask Dextor what my Torflex 3500 axle is rated at ? Why does FR put a 3500 axle on a trailer that the sticker says GVRW 3890 > I assume maybe it has something to do with hooked up and some weight (800 lbs) is borne by the truck ?? But, I dont understand what the definition of GVWR, from Google:
"Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR): is the maximum permissible weight of the vehicle or trailer when fully loaded for travel. This includes the unloaded vehicle weight, all fluids, cargo, optional equipment and accessories. The tow vehicle and trailer each have a GVWR."
Sorry, I didn't realize you posted this info.

The trailer's weight of the tongue weight + the weight carried by the axles without the WDH.

Forest River says the same thing here:
https://forestriverinc.help/#/forest...8-42A50365BC07

Quote:
The GVWR is the weight of the entire contents of the RV and the full weight on the axles, on the tongue or hitch. DO NOT EXCEED THE GVWR OF THIS RV.

As such, the tongue weight is calculated by taking the "Truck with Camper hooked up WITHOUT WDH" weight and subtracting the "Truck Only" weight. So:
Tongue Weight = (Steer 2960 + Drive 4120) - (Steer 3340 + Drive 2940)

Which works out to:
Tongue Weight = (7,080 - 6,280) = 800

The trailer's weight is the weight of the trailer's axles from the "Truck with Camper hooked up WITHOUT WDH" weighing plus the calculated tongue weight:
Trailer Weight = (TT Axle 3520) + (Tongue Weight 800) = 4,320 lbs.


A WDH doesn't change the tongue weight, it just redistributes it. That's why you see weight added to the truck's front/steer axle (Steer 3260 vs. Steer 2960) and the trailer's axle (TT Axle 3740 vs. TT Axle 3520).

I personally wouldn't want to be over on the axle's weight rating (GAWR). With the WDH, you're over by 240 lbs. Sadly, you're right- a wimpy GAWR is provided assuming that the truck will carry a portion of the trailer's weight.

I would also want to make sure that I'm not over on the tire's load carrying capacity. OEM tires are notorious for being "just barely adequate."

--

In my case, my rig was quite a bit bigger. From memory...

It weighed in around 16,800 lbs. The GVWR was 15,825 pounds. It was a dual axle and each had a GAWR of 7,000 lbs. They generally carried right about 13,800 lbs. combined. 3,000 lbs. was carried by the truck.
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Old 07-09-2019, 04:35 PM   #11
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No one can tell you what will or won't happen. My frame buckling was likely a combination of attributing factors. Yours might be fine. Your axles being overloaded a little might be fine.

You just never know.

But I do know, if it was my rig- I'd be looking at fixes.
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Old 07-09-2019, 10:33 PM   #12
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If you're not carrying water, then you don't have to worry about that 250 lbs.

But the tires + whatnot DO count. It all comes down to the trailer's GVWR which is all parts of the trailer from what the tow vehicle carries in tongue weight to what the axles carry to the axles + tires themselves. You do not get the 150 lbs. back.
the weight counts to the 3890 GVWR but that is how you get a 3890 GVWR on a single axle rated at 3500 pounds. The weight of the axles, wheels, and tires are not technically carried by the axles and there is some weight carried by the hitch.
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Old 07-09-2019, 10:34 PM   #13
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I don't understand that statement. When your on the scale it is not telling you what your axles are carrying. It tells you the weight that is in contact with the scale which includes the brakes and tires. If you get pulled over for over weight the cop isn't going to say your brakes and tires weight xxx amount so we deduct that from our scale weight.
But they don't check axle ratings, they check GVWR (in this case all on a single axle) and that's one reason the GVWR is higher than the axle rating. Many 12,000+ pound GVWR 5th wheels ride on two 5200 pound rated axles.
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Old 07-10-2019, 01:31 PM   #14
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First time to the CAT scale was an eye opener, eh?
Yes, especially on single axle lightweight TT, the GTWR depends on adding in the tongue weight the TV carries to get a bigger capacity value while using a 3500# rated TT axle.
I'd want more weight pushed to the steer axle with the WDH, trying to get closer to the unloaded steer axle weight. Unfortunately, that would also mean more weight pushed to the TT axle. Methinks you need to do a critical review and pull out any excess items from the TT. I had a similar experience with my previous TV with overloaded drive and TT axles. Hardline Jenny Craig on both TT &TV. Even with the new truck I have to keep aware of the load on my TT axle.
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Old 07-10-2019, 01:59 PM   #15
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...but that is how you get a 3890 GVWR on a single axle rated at 3500 pounds...
You could be right, but that's not how I've ever read it before.

The 3890 GVWR exactly matches = GAWR (3500) + Dry Tongue Weight (390) from the specs.
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Old 07-10-2019, 09:57 PM   #16
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You could be right, but that's not how I've ever read it before.

The 3890 GVWR exactly matches = GAWR (3500) + Dry Tongue Weight (390) from the specs.
Part of this is the maker can to and extent do whatever they want in calling the GVWR. Some would just flat out call a trailer with a 3500 pound rated axle a 3500 GVWR, other would go as high as calling it a 4700 GVWR knowing 1200 pounds could be put on the TV (assuming the coupler and frame is built for it) and only 3500# would be on the axle. That is the way any check is done, driven on a scale and checking the weight on each axle. No matter what the maker calls the GVWR, you can't legally exceed each axle rating and they don't subtract any weight for axles, wheels and tires so my point didn't really apply anyway. It's not like 3600 on a 3500 pound axle is going to melt it into a pool of butter anyway. The rating is so you can load it to 3500 pounds and bounce it into 8" deep potholes on a dirt road at 45 mph it's whole life and not expect failure. Some makers build a 2.5 to one safety margin into things. A 3500 pound axle could take 8750# and even then it may take multiple times at those loads to start and have failures as it will bend and flex but not break right away, the metal has to fatigue awhile first. So it may not happen the first time it is overloaded but later it might fail even underloaded.
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Old 07-10-2019, 11:56 PM   #17
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Over loading axle G19FD

Thanks everyone so far enlightening me on my post. I got some very thoughtful opinions. Just to be clear, I, just as everyone on the forum, understand that safety is our main concern, and we each take the responsibility for loading and driving safely seriously. I do see that Im much better off to be without a full FW tank (which I will do 80% of the time), and I'll try and reduce some weight in the trailer (I dont have alot to take out). However, I can see by you and other's experience, that Im not terribly overweight, only possibly exposing myself to a higher chance of a premature failure somewhere someday. Good it shows that everyone should weigh their rigs on a CAT scale and do the math. I would like to say that Forest River has been exceptionally helpful and generous with parts, problems, and questions so far in the short 10 months Ive had the trailer (our 1st), and the dozens of things that broke or needed fixing or upgrading (by me) has been minor compared to the rest of the components and build that I really appreciate and enjoy.
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Old 07-16-2019, 08:06 PM   #18
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... All the scale weights include the trailer tires in a weight tag, which I never see anyone saying anything about why they are figured in. ...
While I know that tires are unsprung weight, I never thought about the fact they're included in the weight calculations. Since the tire rating is part of trailer GVWR, and the tires have to carry themselves, is it relevant?
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Old 07-17-2019, 01:47 PM   #19
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While I know that tires are unsprung weight, I never thought about the fact they're included in the weight calculations. Since the tire rating is part of trailer GVWR, and the tires have to carry themselves, is it relevant?
It's pretty easy to use two 2000 pound rated tires on a 3500 pound rated axle so usually the tires are not the limiting factor but their weight shouldn't count toward the 3500 pound axle limit as the axle isn't carrying their weight. They do count out in the real world but only out of simplicity as a check scale isn't going to be pulling wheels off to figure out how much they weigh. I personally think this is exactly why the GVWR is higher than axle ratings but also that some of the weight is always carried on the hitch or the jack if not hitched.
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