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Old 03-20-2014, 10:21 AM   #191
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As explained before, Payload is that weight that is on the suspension. Tires wheels, axles, etc have absolutely NOTHING to do with actual Payload. GVW, yes, but Payload, NO!

Sprint cars even mount shocks upside down to get rid of the sprung wt.(Payload) Doesn't reduce the vehicle wt, just the sprung wt.
I understand what you are saying. Unfortunately the formula manufacturers use for payload doesn't distinguish between sprung and unsprung weight. My truck is almost identical to my Mothers except I have 20" wheels and tires whereas she has 18's. Sprung weight is within, I'd guess, 40 pounds (I have a sliding rear window and tailgate backup camera), but my "payload" rating is about 130 pounds less. Am I saying that if you add 100 pounds of tires that are better suited to hauling and towing your truck is now less capable than before?? NO WAY!!!! What I am saying is that you've used up some of the "payload" listed on your "lawyer sticker " whether you like it or not. I am a firm believer that you can do some basic modifications to almost any TV out there and make it safer to tow with and more capable(and some mods do the opposite). Doesn't change the sticker- but I think you know I put little stock in that sticker from conversations we've been part of in the past.
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Old 03-20-2014, 10:36 AM   #192
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I understand what you are saying. Unfortunately the formula manufacturers use for payload doesn't distinguish between sprung and unsprung weight. My truck is almost identical to my Mothers except I have 20" wheels and tires whereas she has 18's. Sprung weight is within, I'd guess, 40 pounds (I have a sliding rear window and tailgate backup camera), but my "payload" rating is about 130 pounds less. Am I saying that if you add 100 pounds of tires that are better suited to hauling and towing your truck is now less capable than before?? NO WAY!!!! What I am saying is that you've used up some of the "payload" listed on your "lawyer sticker " whether you like it or not. I am a firm believer that you can do some basic modifications to almost any TV out there and make it safer to tow with and more capable(and some mods do the opposite). Doesn't change the sticker- but I think you know I put little stock in that sticker from conversations we've been part of in the past.
Payload is strictly what the truck can carry on the suspension. All mfgs figure it the same way. The only tire/wheel that is figured in payload is the spare that is carried on the suspension. The four on the ground are not, they ARE figured into the GVW.
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Old 03-20-2014, 11:00 AM   #193
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Payload is strictly what the truck can carry on the suspension. All mfgs figure it the same way. The only tire/wheel that is figured in payload is the spare that is carried on the suspension. The four on the ground are not, they ARE figured into the GVW.
Sorry, OC, but I don't think you are correct on this one. My truck has the same GVWR as my Moms. They weigh the entire truck, wheels, tires, and all. This is called "curb weight". That weight is subtracted from the GVWR and that's where the "Payload" weight comes from on the little yellow and white sticker on all newer vehicles. The only way you could have identical trucks except for different wheel/tire options (i.e. 17's, 18's & 20's) and have the exact same payload on the sticker would be to have different GVWR weights, and that's not the case. It's almost a moot point, however. You can't change unsprung weight without affecting available GVWR and GVWR is all you go off of when you weigh your vehicle prepped to tow anyway.
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Old 03-20-2014, 11:02 AM   #194
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Well said OC.
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Old 03-20-2014, 11:05 AM   #195
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Only if you put them in the bed of the truck instead of on the ground.

Payload - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
pay·load noun \ˈpā-ˌlōd\
: the amount of goods or material that is carried by a vehicle (such as a truck)
OK, that was funny!
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Old 03-20-2014, 11:06 AM   #196
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Payload is always the potential clinker. Manage it wisely. Be safe.
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Old 03-20-2014, 11:13 AM   #197
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Payload is strictly what the truck can carry on the suspension. All mfgs figure it the same way. The only tire/wheel that is figured in payload is the spare that is carried on the suspension. The four on the ground are not, they ARE figured into the GVW.
In reality I doubt 90% of towed rigs with trucks are weighed and the owner actually has an idea of what they are carrying. The Dealers comments on what can be hauled and not is the problem. A proper certification system enforced on the RV Industry requiring licensing of RV sales people would stop many of the issues of improper towing or over weight setups.
The person that cuts my hair has a annual licence that has to be renewed. If I get a bad haircut that won't harm or worse yet kill someone. RV sales guy working on commission with no knowledge except the BS to sell can kill with improper knowledge.

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Old 03-20-2014, 11:21 AM   #198
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... You can't change unsprung weight without affecting available GVWR and GVWR is all you go off of when you weigh your vehicle prepped to tow anyway.
I agree with this, but the payload is what is carried, nothing to do with anything but suspension carried load. Throw a hitch on the truck, generator in the bed and you decrease available payload for other items. If you have a starting payload of 2,000 lbs and you throw in a 200 lb hitch and a 50 lb generator, you are now down to 1750 lbs of available payload. Change all 4 tires with an increase of 100 lbs total and you still have 1750 of payload available, BUT the GVWR will be reduced by the extra 100 lbs. Anyway, I'm outa here.
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Old 03-20-2014, 11:33 AM   #199
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I agree with this, but the payload is what is carried, nothing to do with anything but suspension carried load. Throw a hitch on the truck, generator in the bed and you decrease available payload for other items. If you have a starting payload of 2,000 lbs and you throw in a 200 lb hitch and a 50 lb generator, you are now down to 1750 lbs of available payload. Change all 4 tires with an increase of 100 lbs total and you still have 1750 of payload available, BUT the GVWR will be reduced by the extra 100 lbs. Anyway, I'm outa here.
I think your point is, basically, what the manufacturers call "payload" isn't really payload because they include unsprung weight in that definition. I'm good with this. I am still a little fuzzy on your math, though. Per your scenario, if you increase unsprung weight by 100 pounds, it is mathematically impossible to "still have 1750 of payload available" without exceeding GVWR by 100 pounds. I really wish you wouldn't bail on the conversation OC- I think this is an important discussion we are having here about payload calculation.
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Old 03-20-2014, 12:07 PM   #200
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I think your point is, basically, what the manufacturers call "payload" isn't really payload because they include unsprung weight in that definition. I'm good with this. I am still a little fuzzy on your math, though. Per your scenario, if you increase unsprung weight by 100 pounds, it is mathematically impossible to "still have 1750 of payload available" without exceeding GVWR by 100 pounds. I really wish you wouldn't bail on the conversation OC- I think this is an important discussion we are having here about payload calculation.
Against my better judgment, PAYLOAD is on the suspension! With the 100# of tires, it would reduce the GVWR by 100#.

Assume original sticker GVWR is 8,000# and payload is 2,000#, the new tires add 100# to the wt of the truck. SO, the new GVWR with the extra 100# of tires is now 7,900#, but the payload is still 2,000#. IF, you added a 150# hitch, the available payload is now 1850# and the GVWR is still 7,900# with the new tires. Now, I'm outa here.
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