How much does horsepower come into the towing equation?

[rlh1957]

Good answer Rugman1952. Same here... I knew it wasn't harming the engine of the gasser because horsepower comes with higher rpm, just noisy. But hey if it bothers the wife and she says you need a new truck, who am I to question? I do love the torque, lower RPMs and feeling that towing power of 6.7 power stroke diesel F250.
My F250 6.7 diesel gets better towing mileage than my 2004 Nissan Titan 5.7 did.

[TitanMike]

To answer the core question "How much does horsepower come into the towing equation", start with the definition of "Horsepower".

It's simply a measure of ability to move a given amount of weight, a given distance, in a given amount of time.

Torque is important but it can be created through gear reduction. In theory you could tow a 5,000# trailer with a tow vehicle powered by a 5hp Briggs and Stratton lawn mower engine. The gearing required to create enough torque would slow the process down to the point that it may take an hour to make it from your driveway to the end of your block.

To maintain highway speed over the varying terrains Horsepower will be required. Torque also helps as you will require less help from lower gears in the transmission and differential.

In my experience the closer you get to the max weight rating of a tow vehicle the slower you are going to go up those hills that every highway has. Go up into the mountains and you may worry whether you will even make it up some hills.

As someone else said, don't be afraid to "wind it up" if you have a smaller engine. That's the only way the little engines make horsepower. For some of us who used to own "flatheads" the thought of winding an engine up to 4-5,000 rpm scares us. Fact remains that that's a nice comfortable RPM for most modern engines (Redline on my truck starts at 6100 RPM).

Yes, more truck is good but sometimes we just have to work with what we have.

[imjustdave]

Everyone buys hp.... but they drive tq. Closer you are to within specs the more it will drive normal.. further you go out.... the worse it will until be until your breaking stuff.

[emoney]

I have the same drivetrain, which btw has 308 hp and 275lb torque instead of the other way around. Max tow is 7,000 lbs. in the Canyon and if I recall the same in the 1/2 ton 4x4. Having said all of that, my 3985lb dry TT is about all I want back there and she’s 19’ of box and 22’ from tongue to bumper. The 1500 is a heavier truck by 900lbs so that would give you more leeway I would think. That said, 5k dry is probably 6500 loaded. Even at that I would weigh it to confirm. I use a Reese WDH and a brake controller and feel pretty confident going down the road. Course I’m in Florida so 100’ above sea level is a mountain, lol. A 3/4 would sure open up a LOT more options for you that’s for sure. Good luck

[rlh1957]

I do tow with an 2017 F2017 F250 SD 6.7-liter Power Stroke V-8 diesel engine producing 925 lb-ft torque at 1800 rpm, horsepower is at 440. The awesome torque is amazing. Even at high RPM no gasser can approach that amount of torque. Can you tell I love my truck! But there are others who swear by and love their modern gassers. The engineering of today is very different that 10 years ago on diesel and especially gas truck engines.

[jrm1493]

Originally Posted by rlh1957

I do tow with an 2017 F2017 F250 SD 6.7-liter Power Stroke V-8 diesel engine producing 925 lb-ft torque at 1800 rpm, horsepower is at 440. The awesome torque is amazing. Even at high RPM no gasser can approach that amount of torque. Can you tell I love my truck! But there are others who swear by and love their modern gassers. The engineering of today is very different that 10 years ago on diesel and especially gas truck engines.

Torque is purely a function of mechanical advantage, so a gas motor making 310 ft.lb @ 5400rpm with a 3:1 reduction is putting 930 ft.lb to the rear end, same as the diesel running at 1800 rpm. The non turbo gas motor has to rev higher and would be in say 2nd gear instead of 4th gear. Since diesels can't rev high, they have low power compared to torque, usually about half. Modern gas motors are built to rev and often have more power than torque. That said your diesel motor still makes a lot of power, but not all that much more than the gas 6.x v8's, so with the right gearing the gas motors will be similar (at sea level), but you've got to let them spin and they need the right gears.

But, I think people are afraid of revving the crap out of motors, hence the popularity of new small turbo direct injection motors. In the real world I don't think they get very good mpg - my Ecoboost 2.0 focus ST never did (probably because I couldn't stay out of boost for long). It pulled like a big v6 from 2000-5000 rpm which felt fast but it fell on its face up high. It felt stronger than my LS1 Camaro below 4000rpm but the LS kept pulling harder and harder until fuel cutoff, and the Camaro was much faster despite being 3-400 lb heavier. But if you shifted the Camaro at 5000rpm instead of redline I'm sure it would be slower.

[katkt]

Do some leg work on google and/or wherever you can find it, regarding that particular motor. You’re looking for information that tells you where on the power curve(RPM’s)the motor makes the HP/Torque the motor is sold as having.

My 5.4, is at that place north of 5000 rpms. This is not redline(max rpm, before things get into self destruct mode). This is simply where the motor is making its best torque and HP.
An example. I have a Miata. The power curve, peaks around 6300rpms, and it hits the redline around 7200. The ECM, shuts certain parts of the motor down, until the rpms get back below redline. My Miata is a nice sedate underpowered little car up to around 3000rpms. If I wanna race moms in their mini vans, I have to stay above 3000, shifting around 5500. Lol

Find out where your motor makes it’s advertised power. That’s where if needed, you’ll be winding it up to. If you hit that place in gear, and you’re losing ground, then you don’t have enough truck. There’s a reason race car drivers are always shifting gears. Regardless of speed, they want the cars motor making its best power. That’s the difference between driving and riding. You won’t be doing all that shifting, but learn what you have to do manually if the tranny allows, or with the accelerator, to keep the motor where it has to be, when you need it to work.

My 5.4 was just fine in the 3750 to 4200rpm area, pulling #7000+ up and down the big hills out west. It only has a 6 speed tranny, and a 3.55 rear end. I think it makes about 360 peak HP, IIRC. I had to learn how to keep it there. Sometimes, that involved finding a particular gear/speed combo, and staying there. It may be less then the speed limit, but it will hold a steady speed.

Just a little note. You can probably do a better job of driving the truck when it has to work hard, then trusting the tranny. Use the Tow/haul. Learn from experience how to keep the rpms where needed in the gear that keeps the rpms in the sweet spot. If you put it in cruise, the tranny is going to constantly be searching and trying to upshift and you’ll more then likely come out of the experience thinking your truck is under powered. Get into the gear you need most on a steep grade early. There is no substitute for momentum. It’s simple physics.
The truck if it’s like mine, is geared and programmed to get the best fuel mileage. It will always be trying to keep the rpms down, because in it’s little electronic mind, that’s where the best mileage is. This is what you’ll be working against when keeping the motor in its best power making sweet spot for your rig.
My truck gets exactly half the fuel mileage towing, as it does w/o the trailer. Pulling a grade at 65, with the rpms close to 4K, it really gets thirsty. I have a 32 gal tank, and refuel just about every time my wife starts to fidget. Usually a bit below half.
Unless it’s under powered, the truck should do its job, if you do yours.
Be a smart driver. Getting the most out of your truck, is more then just getting behind the wheel.

Like Titanmike mentioned, if you’re not used to hearing a motor work hard, it can be a little unnerving for a bit. It’s music to my ears, compared to the price of a new truck.

[Chief T]

I think this is close to apples to apples… my previous TV was a 03 GMC Sierra 1500 regular cab, short bed with the 4.8l engine. The 4.8l produced 285hp and 295 torque. The 4.8l was replaced by the EcoTec3 family. My TV had heavy-duty trailering package that included 3.73 gears. Had a GCVWR of 12k. We knew we were limited to choice of TTs and wound up getting one at 4k dry, and fully loaded around 4.5k.

It towed fine, but you definitely knew the TT was back there. Got pushed around a bit by passing trucks and such. I live out west so mountain grades was my concern with the 4.8l. First trip was over Raton Pass with a 6% grade. The TV struggled that last mile or so to the summit, and knew I had to upgrade at that moment. Grades are doable, but you’re not going to be breaking any land speed record.

It’s just DW and I as well, but we don’t pack heavy.

My .02 cents, you’d probably be OK on level ground, but you’re going to struggle in the mountains.

Also, make sure you have/get an external tranny cooler.

Safe and happy travels.

[Villagerjjm]

I am towing a 2018 Rockwood 2604WS that fully loaded weighs in at 6862 lbs with a tounge weight of 690 lbs which I tow with a 2015 Chevy Colorado Z71 which is rated for 7000 lbs and 700 tounge. I just brought it to NY from Florida. At one point I practically had to lock the brakes due to an accident up ahead in a construction zone on I-84 in Pa. I was ready to take the entire rig off the road if necessary, but IT STOPPED PERFECTLY under absolute blind emergency conditions. After I caught my breath and calmed my heart, I got out, determined that I was going to be sitting for about an hour, and walked around the rig checking tire pressure, lug torque and seeing if there was any damage caused by the rapid stop. I did not go to the accident scene. There was already a big crowd forming down there... police, firetrucks, 3 ambulances...
Did I say I was coming over the crest of a mountain in the Poconos when I was greeted by brake lights? I was doing the speed limit which was 55 mph in the work zone.

KNOW YOUR LIMITS AND STICK TO THEM !!!
They will save your life!!!

[gmacklem]

Originally Posted by jrm1493

Just let it spin, don't be afraid of high RPMs; lots of people are but it won't break.

I have a Sunseeker RV with the Ford V10 and that thing will run 4,500 RPM up a mountain if it has to. I'm afraid I'm killing it but so far nothing has come flying through the hood.

Funny thing is, I have no problem redlining a car, but they hit the redline and shift and drop RPM. This thing is holding the high RPM for several miles to pull the hill. So I guess motors can handle that better than I thought.

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by gmacklem

I have a Sunseeker RV with the Ford V10 and that thing will run 4,500 RPM up a mountain if it has to. I'm afraid I'm killing it but so far nothing has come flying through the hood.

Funny thing is, I have no problem redlining a car, but they hit the redline and shift and drop RPM. This thing is holding the high RPM for several miles to pull the hill. So I guess motors can handle that better than I thought.

Today's engines and transmissions are designed to just be driven. Put your foot on the throttle and drive. Use tow/haul mode, select gear recommended in owners manual for towing or climbing grades (stay out of overdrive) and let the "power train brain" do it's job.

Transmissions will shift at optimum engine speeds for the load. Engines running at higher rpm's are getting max lubrication, cooling, and burn fuel more efficiently. If the noise bothers you, turn the radio up.

We've come a long way from engines that tossed pieces out the sides and bottom when wound up to their rated rpm. Transmissions today are a far cry from the Powerglide, Fordomatic, and Fluid Drives of old.

Only time one should need to manually shift a modern transmission is when on a steep grade and the transmission is shifting in and out of a lower gear frequently. Select the lower gear and when off the grade go back to Drive.

[jbrobson]

My 08 was the 4.3 6. Great motor but without a trans cooler trans temp was hitting 235 in SD. You might want to add one.

[Carguy1965]

Originally Posted by Rugman1952

DW and I are not full timers. Maybe 10/12 camping trips per summer, about 50/ 60 miles one way per trip. We did the 5.7 Hemi, and 6.0 Chevy gassers for years. I finally got tired of the high rpms, and worrying about tongue weight, axle weight, gcvw, and wether or not our 7 pound toy fox terrier pooped before we put her in the truck. We bought a used but well taken care of 3/4 ton diesel, and never looked back. Yes, maintenance and fuel cost more, however, when we head out camping, I'm thinking about camping, and not horse power or ft. pounds of torque. The less time I have to spend worrying about my TV, the more time I can spend making sure my meds are right!

Times 3 here !!

Our old trailer was 5500 dry and I had a 2014 Ram 1500 with the 5.7 Hemi, and the 8 speed and the full tow set up. It pulled the camper just fine but it worked hard on the hills and would constantly jump up and down in the gears.. Halfway up a hill in the mountains you sounded like Richard Petty on the back straight at 4000 plus RPM, This with an engine that makes 420 ft lbs. You could not use cruise control either unless you were in Florida and it was totally flat. Moved up the the 2500 Cummins and now with an 8000 plus TT its a different world towing. I do not ever want to go back to pulling with gas.. the truck pulls on cruise and pulls hills like the trailer is not even back there.. You can focus 100% on safe driving and navigating as there are simply no tow vehicle issues to distract you. I towed many a mile with gas burners, but I do not want to do it again. Trans temp never goes over 175 either.. I like towing in the mid to slight upper range of the vehicles capability, not at or near the top. Just my 2 cents, and best of luck enjoying your camper !

[cadman99]

I tow with a 2001(no DEF) 3/4 ton Ra m diesel and a 30 ft 5th wheel. Truck weighs about 6800 and the trailer about 9000. With a small programmer about 285hp and 600ft lbs. Uphill, flat, wind makes virtually no difference. About 1800rpm at 65mph occasionally drops out of OD to third at about 2800rpm. Gets between 12.5 And 14.5 mpg. There is virtually no maintenance. It scares me to see half tons pulling 30ft "half ton towable" bumper pulls.

It also bothers me that in these towing discussions the is no discussion about chassis and brakes. My 3/4 ton has huge rotors and calipers in the front and equally huge drums in the back. Front hubs and rear end also much sturdier than the 1/2 ton. If you are towing a 7000lb load at 5000 rpm it has to have an effect on the engine, chassis and brakes. Remember all you hang on stuff, alternator and compressor are also turning that fast.

When they say this truck can tow 7000lbs my next question is for how long.

[Mark S.]

From experience, don’t overload the truck. Yes it will tow it and stop it all on flat ground. But once you have wind and hills you will have issues. RPM will go way up and fuel mileage will , well forget fuel mileage. And in all how far are you looking to take your rv. If you go local all the time, then you’ll be ok. (30 to 40 miles) . Other than that get a bigger truck. I went from a Tundra to a diesel and their is no comparison to towing. But we make 700 to 900 mile trips. Best thing to look at on gas burners is to tow with ease is to cut towing capacity in half.

[katkt]

There’s riders and drivers. Diesels and gassers are apples and oranges.
If all you have is a hammer, treat the whole world like a nail.

[Rugman1952]

Whatttt???????

[katkt]

It is what it is. When I see post about guys dragging #5000 with a 250, and a 6.sumthin gasser and they don’t think the truck can pull a 6% grade, I have to shake my head.

I think it’s nice that people buy bigger stuff if it makes them happy. If they think they need it, more power to them. It’s good for the economy. Git-r-done. People should embrace their comfort zone.

I saw a semi smoking his brakes coming down a grade on I-70. He had to pull off the first chance he got. Just him out of a bunch coming down the same hill.
I have a buddy who hired a guy to drive his dump truck. Gave him strict instructions about leaving it in the bottom gear until he’d climb out of the clay pit. “Just take your time”. The guy tried to upshift, and just like he was told would happen, twisted the driveshaft. My buddy got to repair the truck in the bottom of the pit.

Driving a 150 gasser pulling a trailer, fits in the same category. There’s a way to do it correctly. Knowing how to get the best out of the PU w/o tearing it up, is the difference between riders and drivers.

Buying a bigger truck because you feel it’s necessary, doesn’t necessarily mean it was.
For me, I’m more then happy with my 150 dragging #7000. I just finished a 5000 mile turn to West Yellowstone and back. I’m approaching 10k miles towing this particular trailer, and it tows it fine. I have the ability to buy a bigger truck if I wanted, but there’s no need, IMHO.
People usually get into accidents, doing stupid things. Knowing the limitations of your rig, and driving within those limitations is the very definition of safety.
Approaching this from the position bigger is better is fine. Pretending I should only be pulling #3500 with my 150, is nonsense. Setting standards for other people based on ones own abilities or lack of, is ludicrous.

Just say’n.

[BigH]

Originally Posted by cadman99

...

It also bothers me that in these towing discussions the is no discussion about chassis and brakes. My 3/4 ton has huge rotors and calipers in the front and equally huge drums in the back. ...

Sir, the front rotors are smaller on your truck than on current 1500 rams and if your truck is the popular quad cab 4x4 automatic the tow rating is less than some tow equipped half tons even if you have the 4.10 gears. If you have the smaller gear set your tow rating is under 10,000lbs. For perspective your rotors are only slightly larger (.1 inch) than a Chevy Colorado...

Now about the drums...while they might offer great bite they will not modulate like an appropriate sized rotor and they are not superior.

[RCPatt]

I agree that getting the vehicle weighed would be best if possible. But you can figure it out anyway. You know the payload limit on the vehicle. Add the weight of you and passengers, gas is approx. 8 lbs per gallon, add the hitch weight. Add the estimated weight of anything to be carried in truck. Are you close or beyond limits. Roads are not flat so you'll need HP for hills (even semi's have difficulties at times) or you might overheat as you climb. Stability is also a concern so evaluate the capabilities of your chosen vehicle when towing. Drive within the limits of your truck and trailer (tire grade) and don't ever be one of those idiots going down the road at 80 mph.