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Old 07-03-2013, 07:03 PM   #31
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Not sticking my head in the sand, I just don't happen to believe that being 200#-500# over some lawyer sticker is going to cause a catastrophic failure or is unsafe and I am sure not going to go spend $40,000 -$50,000 on a bigger truck just to comply with the same stickers and have it sit in the driveway 6 months a year. My truck is well maintained, paid for and fully capable of towing my 5er whether the wt. police want to believe it or not.
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Old 07-03-2013, 07:13 PM   #32
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Some of us tout specs after having had rigs that were over vehicle ratings and then had bad experiences towing as result. I know this is why I became a member of the so called weight police. That Said, I won't jump down someone's throat, they are an adult but I will still try to educate so they can make an informed decision. As stated before, I have my opinion, the OP has his, you have yours. This is what makes this country what it is. I will still exercise my right to stay away from an unsafe rig.

Oh and I did grow up with my dad towing a 28ft coachman with a '77 half ton ford econovan loaded down with 2 adults, 4 kids and a large dog. We survived it but dad hated towing it and actually told me not to buy a TT because towing was so stressful. We also had managed to get the rig stuck in a cornfield in Ohio during a thunderstorm and tornado. The van blew its transmission in Orlando by a toll booths with all of us in a van with no AC, a large tt (no slide), a dog and in the middle of summer. He sold the rig when we got home because he had had enough.

I almost gave up I after my experiences towing with an outmatched SUV but having towed horse trailers since I was 16, I knew there was a better towing experience out there. I upgraded to a properly matched rig and haven't looked back. I learned a lot about trailer safety on forums (or at least enough to know to educate myself further) from others helping me. It was through forums I learned about why I need to know and care about tongue weight. I Also didn't know I could go weigh a rig at truck scale until someone on a forum told me.
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Old 07-03-2013, 07:16 PM   #33
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The biggest problem with the weight police... is that someone may chime in about weight when nobody asked them to. Nobody goes and ridicules them for using a dually to tow a tent trailer, so the same crowd needs to learn to bite their tongues when they see a pickup at its max. Sure, mock a guy that fits a 5th wheel hitch to the trunk lid of a K car and then hauls a 12000 pound mammoth... but when it's apparent that common sense is still in play, it's best left alone.
There is a LOT of bad info out there.
Go look at TT - you'll see on a 30' 5400lb dry weight trailer a manufacturers sticker 'Small SUV towable'.

Really?

Now go to a car dealer and ask "can I tow X with this truck here" and unless you're way off base (10k lb and pointing to a ranger) they'll surely say YES SIR! Sign HERE! as quick as they can.

Go look at the published tow ratings then go read the manual on a SPECIFIC truck and you can find 1000lbs or more difference and lots of small print. SOMEBODY thinks it needs to be there. Why would a lawyer care that adding 4x4 or 17" rims should reduce the tow rating?

If you look at the ratings before and after the SAE ratings have been published you can see the ratings are based on PERFORMANCE for the most part. Can you keep up with traffic, merge, swerve, etc?

Like medicine, is what your trying to do 'safe and effective'? I bet a ranger could pull a 10k fifth wheel - it would no way pass the SAE test, and if you never exceed 25mph it's probably as safe as anything out there.

Will you be HAPPY with that combination? Probably not.

I got a LOT of grief about TV WB and trailer length 2 to 3 years ago when I bought my 28' TT and planned to pull with an expy. It worked fine - now that I pull with a TV that has 24" more WB I can tell you - no damned difference. Harder to get teh WD right with all that extra WB.

I think those that jump in with info are just trying to make sure the posters have a clue. Ignorance in bliss and knowledge is power. You can get the numbers and still do stupid things, but at least you'll be making such a decision from a position of power, not ignorance.
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Old 07-03-2013, 07:39 PM   #34
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Not sticking my head in the sand, I just don't happen to believe that being 200#-500# over some lawyer sticker is going to cause a catastrophic failure or is unsafe and I am sure not going to go spend $40,000 -$50,000 on a bigger truck just to comply with the same stickers and have it sit in the driveway 6 months a year. My truck is well maintained, paid for and fully capable of towing my 5er whether the wt. police want to believe it or not.
I could careless if you're overloaded or not- my head in the sand reference was to your claims about speeding isn't challenged. It is. But you ignored it and continue to pound your fist against the post.

Seriously, someone educated about their truck's capabilities and overload by choice, I have no issue with. It's the folks who don't know any better that I'd like to help learn. If they continue to feel it's OK to overload, so be it. It's not my way, but so are a lot of things.

(shrugs)
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Old 07-03-2013, 08:44 PM   #35
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I have been flying for 12 years on a helicopter as a flight medic and 22 years on the ambulance. I have run alot of wrecks over the years and non of them was because of towing over the limit of the yellow sticker. It was always because of stupid drivers with no common sense. We can spin it however we want but it will always boil down to not having the know how to properly tow weather half ton or 1 ton. Most of the wrecks I run are 3/4 ton towing 5th wheel or car towing a pop up. When you have know clue how to safely tow it makes no difference what you tow with.
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Old 07-03-2013, 09:46 PM   #36
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My worst tow ever was in 1977 with a 1973 Ford Courier, 4cyl, auto with a/c. Pulling daddy's 16' skeeter bass boat with 85hp merc about 40 miles to the lake once. Trying to impress the girlfriend. Slowed to about 25 going up the small hills and hit 60 going down hill to get up the next one. I'm not talking about big hills here. Northwest Louisiana. I backed the boat into the water and took her riding. Had a fun time, but... i could not pull the boat out of the water. The 4cyl auto had no power. A nice old man waiting to launch his boat pulled me up the ramp with his motor home and a chain. How embarrassing! Not much talking on the way home. But the girl did marry me... 25 years later. *I have a bigger truck now, and a bigger boat. LOL
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Old 07-03-2013, 09:51 PM   #37
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I have been flying for 12 years on a helicopter as a flight medic and 22 years on the ambulance. I have run alot of wrecks over the years and non of them was because of towing over the limit of the yellow sticker. It was always because of stupid drivers with no common sense. We can spin it however we want but it will always boil down to not having the know how to properly tow weather half ton or 1 ton. Most of the wrecks I run are 3/4 ton towing 5th wheel or car towing a pop up. When you have know clue how to safely tow it makes no difference what you tow with.
With over 50 yrs experience towing trailers, 38+ yrs towing rv trailers, I am pretty confident that I will not be the cause of any mishap or accident due to abuse of my tow vehicle. My biggest fear is some joker pulling some dumb stunt like speeding. I run 55-65 mph and am constantly passed by bigger trucks running 10-15 mph faster pulling bigger campers and mh running 75-80 weaving from lane to lane. Have been passed by some in mh's running that fast and then follow them into a rest area or restaurant and the driver can hardly walk and some are in wheel chairs. I make a habit of slowing down when I see a mh or 5er coming and after they pass so there is a good distance between us.
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Old 07-03-2013, 11:18 PM   #38
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ependy, no point in arguing with those who are never wrong.
I do agree with you that what we should be doing here is helping those who may be unaware of some issues, and not filling the boards with self-serving comments.
If someone is looking for guidance on what kind of tow vehicle they should buy, would it be right to tell them to buy a truck that will be immediately over-loaded, and most likely uncomfortable to drive for the novice? Not in my world.
Keep up the helpful posts.
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Old 07-04-2013, 01:07 AM   #39
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ependy, no point in arguing with those who are never wrong.
I do agree with you that what we should be doing here is helping those who may be unaware of some issues, and not filling the boards with self-serving comments.
If someone is looking for guidance on what kind of tow vehicle they should buy, would it be right to tell them to buy a truck that will be immediately over-loaded, and most likely uncomfortable to drive for the novice? Not in my world.
Keep up the helpful posts.
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Old 07-04-2013, 05:58 AM   #40
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Well said to everyone. The thought of the title phrase came to me after a lot of reading advise, guidelines, comments, experiences, knowledge good and bad, and everything in between. You have to admit, it is a great title for a post. That said, there is plenty of info on towing, but very little from the manufacturers and what they publish is confusing at best. Just take this for example. GRAWR, 3800 lbs. GRAW, 2450 lbs. Payload, 1240 lbs. Tire ratings, 2600 lbs. Max load on tires, 1096 lbs.

I know it sounds like I was poking a stick at the bear, but not my intent. Just a good way to generate more input from both sides

Happy Independance Day!
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