Interesting Discovery about GVWR/Payload

[MikeRP]

Originally Posted by TheHugens

I posted this a year ago. Kind of related. People get wrapped up on specs and safety. Both are important but not always related.

I sell equipment and have towed equipment for decades in Chevy 2500’s and F250 pickups. Truck weight and tow capacity has little to do with static weight and axle and spring load. You won’t wear out the truck or hurt it if your at capacity or even 10% over. The rating has to do with its ability to stop in a given distance at a given speed. For example, a 6000 lbs trailer axle vs a 7000 trailer axle is the identical axle accept the brake mechanism. Load range tires, brakes and lugs are what really matter. I don’t recommend overloading any vehicle ever, but the professionals run the big rigs at 99% of capacity. They freak at 101% since it costs them $1000’s in fines. Don’t be afraid to run your F150 at near max capacity, just be responsible, good tires, good breaks and drive like a pro.
I’ve trained many sales people how to tow with one important example. I tell them when they are towing pretend you have a full hot cup of coffee in the cup holder with no lid. Drive so as not to spill it. Break sooner and don’t drive like a drag car! Hope this helps. I had a 2011 F150 Lariat SC 4x4 51/2’ bed that tows a 8528 RKWS 5er with NO problems! I just bought a new 2018 and sold the 2011. Had 107K with 10000 tow miles. 93% of the time it’s a car! You won’t wear it out!

I appreciate this post and I agree. These trucks are a lot more capable than folks want to give credit. I get a kick out of the guy on BigTruckBigRv because he’s towing 14500 lbs with an F450. I guess he can afford one! But an F250 setup right can handle his trailer fine and so can an F350 SRW.

When you drive a Class C, you get used to driving right next to max capacity on those tires. My tpms was critical because you could see the temp and pressure rise in the summer with speed. So at 65 mph they would stay stable but at 70-75 those tires would just keep going up in temp and pressure. Slowed down to 65 and the readings came right back down. Good lesson for me.

How we drive these rigs is definitely 80% of the battle.

[dustman_stx]

Originally Posted by TheHugens

Im jumping in this late, but the difference in Max Tow Packages is the pinion gear in the rear end and the transmission and oil coolers. In reference to how much more it costs to add the option has nothing to do with what it sells for. It probably only costs Ford a few thousand more to build a Rapter but they get a boat load more since the market will pay a boat load more.

No difference in the coolers on the 3.5L EB engines, which mine had. You are correct and I had forgotten that the MaxTow came with 3.73 gears whereas mine had 3.55. Once again, that has ZERO to do with weight carrying capability. I actually argued at the time that there was no need for the 3.73 gears in the MaxTow, the 3.55's were plenty low with where the EB produces peak torque. Low and behold, Ford changed it to 3.55s with MaxTow. And you can't argue it's because of the 10 speed, there were a couple of years that the MaxTow with 3.55s had the 6 speed- my brother has one.

[dustman_stx]

Originally Posted by TheHugens

I posted this a year ago. Kind of related. People get wrapped up on specs and safety. Both are important but not always related.

I sell equipment and have towed equipment for decades in Chevy 2500’s and F250 pickups. Truck weight and tow capacity has little to do with static weight and axle and spring load. You won’t wear out the truck or hurt it if your at capacity or even 10% over. The rating has to do with its ability to stop in a given distance at a given speed. For example, a 6000 lbs trailer axle vs a 7000 trailer axle is the identical axle accept the brake mechanism. Load range tires, brakes and lugs are what really matter. I don’t recommend overloading any vehicle ever, but the professionals run the big rigs at 99% of capacity. They freak at 101% since it costs them $1000’s in fines. Don’t be afraid to run your F150 at near max capacity, just be responsible, good tires, good breaks and drive like a pro.
I’ve trained many sales people how to tow with one important example. I tell them when they are towing pretend you have a full hot cup of coffee in the cup holder with no lid. Drive so as not to spill it. Break sooner and don’t drive like a drag car! Hope this helps. I had a 2011 F150 Lariat SC 4x4 51/2’ bed that tows a 8528 RKWS 5er with NO problems! I just bought a new 2018 and sold the 2011. Had 107K with 10000 tow miles. 93% of the time it’s a car! You won’t wear it out!

I agree 100%.

[dabean80]

Originally Posted by dward51

Ok, let me throw this into the mix.

It's commonly accepted and verified by many a dealership service tech that the physical difference in frame and capacity between 2500/3500 and 250/350 is basically an extra leaf in the springs for the higher capacity (all other things such as engine, transmission, etc.... being equal between the platforms). And the door stickers are based on the weakest link in the chain which is always the tires.

That being said, how many of you are still riding on the factory tires which are usually not the best brand/model and capacity? Most of us have by nature upgraded to much better quality and higher capacity tires as the original wore or needed replacement. So if the door sticker is based on the tires and they are replaced by higher capacity rated ones, then the door sticker is no longer correct.

For example, there is over 1,000 pounds difference in capacity per tire on the factory stock tires that came on my GMC vs the upgraded tires I have on there now. Yes I know that does not magically add 4,000 in extra capacity, but my point is the tires are no longer the weakest link in my situation and that sticker no longer truly accurate.

Go look at your axle capacity sticker and tire numbers and pull the capacity for the stock tires that came on your tow vehicle. I will bet you find that the "capacity" is directly related to the total tire carrying capacity as the weakest link in the chain. Hardest part is figuring out what the stock tires were model wise unless yours are still on the rig. If they are, look at some quality potential replacement tire capacities are, and they are probably more. As soon as any part of the equation, be it tires, air bags, or anything else is changed, then the math on tow capacity changes if the weakest part of the equation is upgraded. That is also why the tow ratings for bumper pull vs WD hitch are different with the same vehicle, as the weight on each axle is more distributed. So it's not based on this engine and transmission can pull X and only X which would also explain the 350 vs 450 example in the original post and the chart in Moose's response. Look at the tires and frame on the 450. There is the difference even though the engine and transmission are the same.

Not recommending anyone tow over weight, but I'm just saying the devil is in the details.... And manufacturers are all about saving money but CYA on the numbers matching exactly what left the factory.

I'd argue the weakest link it's often not the tires. Manufacturers are in a constant numbers competition... who has more towing capacity or payload or whatever. If they could increase the max payload they get to advertise by simply spending another $50 on better tires (factory costs), then they probably would.

The crappy factory Wranglers on my F-150 were good for over 1000lbs more than my GVWR on the door sticker. The good news is, the tires are the one thing you can be sure about because you can read the limit on the tires. Sometimes you can find out what the rear axle itself is limited to, but everything else (springs, brakes, frame, trans, etc) it's next to impossible to get numbers on. Even if it happens that you GVWR is equal to the max load on your tires, you can't know if a tire upgrade will add any load capacity or if there was another limiting factor.

I think the best we can do is buy good tires and make sure they are more than enough for the max load listed for each axle and stay within GVWR limits. Just my two cents.