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Old 06-03-2019, 11:50 AM   #1
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Interesting info on payload...

*EDIT: I mean gross trailer weight...

Hi guys and gals.
With all of the constant talk of 1/2 ton truck, payload capacity, towing capacity, hitch weight, tire weight ratings, and overall GVWR, I wanted to triple check my numbers again this past weekend.
The good news, I'm more than covered in my situation, with my truck, my trailer, and the tires on all. That, I was confident in before, but I'll be honest, sometimes reading the post on here can make a person second (or in my case, third) guess themselves that they read the numbers on everything correctly.

One thing I found particularly interesting, while browsing my Silverado's owners manual, in the towing section, was this... I"m sorry it's sideways, but here's the summary...
The Trailer weight rating (in my case, 9,500 lbs) is calculated already assuming the weight of a driver, front seat passenger, and ALL required trailer equipment (i.e. WDH for anything over 500lbs tongue weight on my truck). Weight of additional optional equipment (tonneau covers / bed cap) passengers and cargo in the tow vehicle must be subtracted from the trailer weight rating.

This to me means that some of the advice on here at times, has been incorrect, or at the very least, I mis-understood it. For my 2015 Silverado 1500, I only need to reduce my trailer weight capacity if I have my daughters with me, and anything in the bed of the truck. I do NOT need to reduce the max trailer weight for only myself, my wife, and my WDH receiver.

I'm wondering if others (Ford / Ram / Toyota / Nissan) have similar segments in their manuals.
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Old 06-03-2019, 12:00 PM   #2
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Based on the thread title and what you end up talking about, I think you're confused.

Payload is what the truck carries, not tows. Your post is talking about gross trailer weight/trailer weight rating. The max TOW rating of your truck includes standard weight for a driver and a tank of fuel, I have no idea what falls under "required trailering equipment" but I doubt it's talking about WDH, rather it's talking about factory options needed for max tow rating. The weights of WDHs vary and I've never seen any specs that outline what weight is used for such equipment from the truck manufacturer.

Now, the title of your thread talks about payload. Payload is not what you can tow, it's what the truck can carry. This weight rating does not include the weight of the driver and why the payload sticker says "all occupants" and not "all passengers."

So, hopefully this clears up the confusion.
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Old 06-03-2019, 12:05 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by DieselDrax View Post
Based on the thread title and what you end up talking about, I think you're confused.

Payload is what the truck carries, not tows. Your post is talking about gross trailer weight/trailer weight rating. The max TOW rating of your truck includes standard weight for a driver and a tank of fuel, I have no idea what falls under "required trailering equipment" but I doubt it's talking about WDH, rather it's talking about factory options needed for max tow rating. The weights of WDHs vary and I've never seen any specs that outline what weight is used for such equipment from the truck manufacturer.

Now, the title of your thread talks about payload. Payload is not what you can tow, it's what the truck can carry. This weight rating does not include the weight of the driver and why the payload sticker says "all occupants" and not "all passengers."

So, hopefully this clears up the confusion.
I agree.
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Old 06-03-2019, 12:16 PM   #4
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DeiselDrax hit the nail on the head..You are still a little confused over what you can tow, vs what you can carry. Many trucks that could tow a 10K trailer , aren't able to reach that limit because by the time you add the tongue weight of the trailer, the hitch, the occupants, and miscellaneous items, you are very often over on available payload. So based on "Payload" available, you may only be able to tap into about 7500LBS of that 10K limit. All made up numbers of course but you get tthe idea.
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Old 06-03-2019, 12:41 PM   #5
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I'm not confused on payload and towing trailer weight. I simply mis-typed the title. Sorry about that.

As for required trailer equipment, my owners manual states that a Weight Distribution hitch is required for trailers over xxxx lbs, or tongue weights over xxxx lbs. ( I forget the weight, and didn't take a picture of that, because I already knew that). That is required equipment to pull a trailer over that weight, for GM to stand behind their product.

I'll see about changing the title of my post...
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Old 06-03-2019, 12:51 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GXPWeasel1 View Post
I'm not confused on payload and towing trailer weight. I simply mis-typed the title. Sorry about that.

As for required trailer equipment, my owners manual states that a Weight Distribution hitch is required for trailers over xxxx lbs, or tongue weights over xxxx lbs. ( I forget the weight, and didn't take a picture of that, because I already knew that). That is required equipment to pull a trailer over that weight, for GM to stand behind their product.

I'll see about changing the title of my post...
If you have a CAT scale nearby then for a few bucks you can find out your actual payload and tow capacity without relying on vague manual references.

Download https://my.gm.com/content/dam/gmowne...ide_122215.pdf

Look at page 9 and find your truck's engine and gearing, that will tell you the GCWR for your truck. This weight is the maximum combined weight of both the truck and trailer.

Hop in your truck, plop the WDH in the bed, fill up the gas tank, and hit the scale.

Now, subtract the combined steer + drive axle weights from the GCWR in the towing guide. This is your true max tow rating for you and your truck with nobody else in the truck and no other gear in the truck.

This will also tell you where your payload capacity is really at as you would subtract the combined steer + drive axle weights from the truck's GVWR on the certification sticker. Compare that to the payload sticker and see how different they are.

The point being, manuals are pretty general in their terms and numbers because every truck is different. The only way for you to know your truck's actual capacities is to have it weighed. If you want to go all out then you could get it weighed with your trailer hitched w/ WDH bars on and again with WDH bars off to figure out hitch weight, WDH weight transfer, etc.

I suspect you may find your actual tow rating will be less than the max tow rating while you and the WDH are in the truck.
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Old 06-03-2019, 01:11 PM   #7
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I'm aware that I can hit the scales, (which the closest one is just about an hours drive away with my camper) and I will at some point. It may just be at the local metal recycling yard I go to, which will take a bit more time as he can only do the full weight applied at 1 time (no separate axle measurements).

For now though, I know that MY rig, my tires, (both truck and trailer) my dry weight (yea, I know it's more now..) and what I've put in the RV are all within spec, with plenty of play room. I also know my measurements with the WDH hitch are all correct now (they weren't when the dealership installed it).

I appreciate all the feedback. I just wanted to mainly point out that not all trucks need to consider every pound added to them since they rolled off the assembly line, needs to be DEDUCTED from their trailer weight. I think that gets confusing for some with certain posts. I'm comfortable in knowing that at least for the 2015 Silverados on here, (all 2015 Sillverado owners manuals are the same, no matter the trim level) you don't need to consider the hitch weight, your weight, or your significant others' weight when calculating the maximum weight of the trailer you can pull.
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Old 06-03-2019, 01:20 PM   #8
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but you do have to take those weights into account for payload
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Old 06-03-2019, 01:23 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Mountndream View Post
but you do have to take those weights into account for payload
Yes, 100% agree.
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Old 06-03-2019, 01:34 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by ronheater70 View Post
Yea, they pretty much DO have to consider every pound added to them when calculating the wieght of the trailer you can pull. I say that because if everything added to them since it rolled off the assembly line deducts enough from the available payload, then you can't tow what your maximum available trailer weight is. Basically don't want people to look at this thread and think, " My truck has a towing limit of 9500 LBS, and the wife, kids and gear in my truck doesn't count against that so I can pretty much tow 9500 LBS" because that isn't so for Chevy or any manufacturer.
You, and your wife would NOT count against it, which is what my manual says. The additional gear and add on options would yes.

The whole reason I posted this was because my owners manual specifically says to the contrary of most people have said. Straight from the manual, it already assumes a driver, front seat passenger, and hitch receiver are used when towing.

In the grand scheme of things, if you're so close to your max that the 200 lb driver, 150 lb passenger, and 50lb. receiver NOT being considered as vehicle weight, are what keeps you under your max trailer weight, then you are already pushing things farther than one would feel comfortable. I think we can all agree on that.
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Old 06-03-2019, 01:39 PM   #11
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lets try this a different way...


The wife doesn't count as trailer wieght
we all agree on that


She is part of the payload, which is why she is not part of trailer Weight.


the majority of people run out of payload (what the truck can carry) before they hit the trailer weight (what the truck can pull)
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Old 06-03-2019, 02:04 PM   #12
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Weight ratings

The main thing in all the weight discussions it they are ratings. They are not capacity. Some people on this forum act like you couldnít stop for a bottle of water unless you went to the bathroom first.
Interesting how it is so critical because it is published on the vehicle where one can read it. Yet in houses no one publishes floor load ratings which in this country is 40 lbs. per square foot. That is exceeded on a regular basis with no concern.
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Old 06-03-2019, 02:40 PM   #13
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OP, what is the GVWR on the sticker on your door jamb?
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Old 06-03-2019, 02:48 PM   #14
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I own a 2015 Chevrolet 2500HD,Crew Cab, diesel, 4 x 4 with 8 ft. bed. I know the towing capacity is 18200 lbs. for this particular truck. I have no ideal as to the payload. I tow a 5th wheel that has a dry weight of 8484 lbs. Loaded, I am guessing around 9500 lbs. I have added a 60 gal. auxiliary fuel tank to bed of truck and mounted the spare tire and two Honda generators onto the bumper of trailer. With the wife, myself and two dogs in cab, I figure another 700 lbs. The truck tows and handles the trailer great. I have no problems stopping or slowing on mountain grades. I have never scaled the truck or felt a need to.
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Old 06-03-2019, 04:18 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by aircommuter View Post
The main thing in all the weight discussions it they are ratings. They are not capacity. Some people on this forum act like you couldnít stop for a bottle of water unless you went to the bathroom first.
...

How does whatever you are saying apply to a door jamb sticker that reads: ''The combined weight of occupants and cargo should never exceed XXXX" ?
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Old 06-03-2019, 04:22 PM   #16
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Exclamation

For the safety of your family and everyone else on the highway please get you trailer and truck weighed.


Be sure that you have have it loaded up for a trip and have all your family in it when you hit the scales.


I am going out on a limb here and saying that I bet you are a lot closer to being overweight than you think you will be.


There is no way to know without going to the scales.
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Old 06-03-2019, 04:22 PM   #17
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OP, what is the GVWR on the sticker on your door jamb?
I will have to look again, and take a picture. I actually don't remember the GVWR being on the sticker, but I do remember payload was 1,760... I think.

That's the 1 picture I didn't save on my phone apparently. I kept the owners manual ones though. LOL.
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Old 06-03-2019, 04:30 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by GXPWeasel1 View Post
I will have to look again, and take a picture. I actually don't remember the GVWR being on the sticker, but I do remember payload was 1,760... I think.

That's the 1 picture I didn't save on my phone apparently. I kept the owners manual ones though. LOL.
Ok, for the sake of discussion, let's assume it's 1760#. That's your payload and should include the weight of driver, passengers, cargo in your truck, bed cap (if applicable) and hitch weight. If you are under that, you are good.
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Old 06-03-2019, 04:36 PM   #19
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GXPWeasel1, it's easy to get your rigs weight on a single platform scale you find at most grain elevators and scrap yards. Talk to the scale operator and explain what you want to do. Most are glad to help.


1) Stop with only your steer axle on the platform to get your steer axle weight.
2) Continue until both the steer axle and the drive axle are on the platform. This gives you the TV weight with the hitch weight.
3) Subtract the steer axle weight from the TV weight (so 2 minus 1), and you have the weight for your drive axle.
4) Continue on the platform to get your gross combination weight (GCW).
5) Subtract the TV's weight from the gross combination weight (so, 4 minus 2) and you have the weight of the load on the trailer's axles.

If you want the weight of the TV follow steps 1, 2 and 3 without the trailer connected.
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Old 06-03-2019, 04:54 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Walholler View Post
I own a 2015 Chevrolet 2500HD,Crew Cab, diesel, 4 x 4 with 8 ft. bed. I know the towing capacity is 18200 lbs. for this particular truck. I have no ideal as to the payload. I tow a 5th wheel that has a dry weight of 8484 lbs. Loaded, I am guessing around 9500 lbs. I have added a 60 gal. auxiliary fuel tank to bed of truck and mounted the spare tire and two Honda generators onto the bumper of trailer. With the wife, myself and two dogs in cab, I figure another 700 lbs. The truck tows and handles the trailer great. I have no problems stopping or slowing on mountain grades. I have never scaled the truck or felt a need to.
The yellow sticker on the drivers door jamb will tell you the payload of the truck. That number is the one you want to look at when you are adding up the pin weight of the 5th wheel, 5th wheel hitch, passengers, stuff in the bed and back seat.

My trailer dealer would not let me off the lot with the trailer without a 400lb margin between the pin weight of the trailer and the payload rating on that sticker. Traded a 1 month old 2500 for new 3500. (long story).

Jim
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