|
|
03-29-2014, 01:07 PM
|
#1
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 192
|
Is towing/backing a 5th wheel easier than a TT ?
I have always had bumper pull RV's, the latest is/ was 31 feet long from the ball. My street is narrow, but we have a wide, long driveway, and I never had any trouble backing that RV in anywhere. Next Friday, we are picking up our first 5er, which is 41 ft long. Minus what is hanging over the bed of the truck. I intend to pull into a large parking lot on the way home and practice a bit, of course, but I'm wondering what you guys have to say about the ease of backing up with a 5er vs a bumper pull.
Thanks!
|
|
|
03-29-2014, 01:18 PM
|
#2
|
Mod free 5er
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Concord, NC
Posts: 24,702
|
MUCH easier once you understand the pivot is about 4'-5' closer to you and is in front of the rear axle.
__________________
|
|
|
03-29-2014, 01:26 PM
|
#3
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 247
|
The fiver is actually much easier to back once you get used to it. Like Old Coot said, the pivot point is different and that takes a little getting used to, but it won't take you much. You'll need to be careful pulling out from parking lots and making turns at stop signs, as the trailer will tend to cut shorter than what you are used to and you'll drag the side of it down a stop sign or hop a curb if you aren't careful. Once you get used to the differences, you'll wonder why you didn't go to a fifth wheel much sooner. They are so much more stable on the interstate.
__________________
Mike in Tennessee
Former 2 time FR owner
2007 Crossroads Cruiser 30QB Fifth Wheel
2008 F-250 Lariat 4x4 6.4 Powerstroke
Firestone Ride-Rites w/cab control
|
|
|
03-29-2014, 01:35 PM
|
#4
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,428
|
It's very different with regard to how quickly the combo will jackknife, and what I found strangest is how you can fold a 5er tighter than you ever could a TT. Without even getting close to maxing out I had the front axle sliding sideways. I don't like putting the suspension in a bind like that so I lessened my arc but was impressed nonetheless.
That said, like OC said, it's much easier once you get used to it, the assembly reacts much faster thus gives you more options with available space.
Once at the lot, have an assistant watch from outside for clearance issues and fold it up going backwards. Find out where the max is, will the cab hit the box or will the pinbox hit the side of the bed? On mine, the pinbox is a bigger contact threat than the cab is especially if you're on uneven turf as you back in.
__________________
Now-2014 Sierra 346RETS 5er BUB
Then-2002 Keystone Springdale 286RLDS TT
Nights camped in 2014-28, 2015-127, 2016-10
|
|
|
03-29-2014, 07:16 PM
|
#5
|
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Colorado
Posts: 74
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by SKnight
It's very different with regard to how quickly the combo will jackknife, and what I found strangest is how you can fold a 5er tighter than you ever could a TT. Without even getting close to maxing out I had the front axle sliding sideways. I don't like putting the suspension in a bind like that so I lessened my arc but was impressed nonetheless.
That said, like OC said, it's much easier once you get used to it, the assembly reacts much faster thus gives you more options with available space.
Once at the lot, have an assistant watch from outside for clearance issues and fold it up going backwards. Find out where the max is, will the cab hit the box or will the pinbox hit the side of the bed? On mine, the pinbox is a bigger contact threat than 'the cab is especially if you're on uneven turf as you back in.
|
What do you mean by " folding" and "front axle sliding sideways"
__________________
Mike,Patty & Sampson
2015 Chevy 2500 4x4 Diesel
2014 Puma 230FBS
2003 Four Winns 245 Sundowner
|
|
|
03-29-2014, 07:29 PM
|
#6
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Idaho
Posts: 9,839
|
It will turn PDQ so short turns of the steering wheel are mandatory and everything will be backwards to what you are used to doing.
__________________
2016 F350 6.7L LB CC Reese 28K 2014 Chaparral Lite 266sab
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." 2014 19 days camping 2015 17 days camping201620 days camping
|
|
|
03-29-2014, 07:32 PM
|
#7
|
Denver, CO
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 2,102
|
I assume that he means scrubbing the tires sideways, which can be more pronounced in a tight turn in a 5er. AS long as the tires are at max rated pressure and are ST's, there should not be a problem. There is an adjustment period tho between the TT and 5er.
__________________
2017 Fuse 23T
|
|
|
03-29-2014, 07:42 PM
|
#8
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,428
|
By folding I mean pivoting the truck in relation to the trailer, like folding a piece of paper. Too much and it gets to the point of jack knifing, or folded shut.
As for the axle sliding, when you turn the front axle and the rear axle track in very slightly different lines in relation to each other. Going forward you'll never really see or notice it.
But backing up you can induce a much sharper angle than going forward. Eventually the trailer starts doing more spinning on an axis than moving backwards, for some reason the rear axle tends to stay put while the front axle slides usually though I've seen the rear scrubbing also.
A TT will scrub the tires but you can't get to a sharp enough angle to mimic what a 5er can do.
This photo is of a tractor trailer, but the description is the same.
Also, this is a fundamental difference between passenger/LT tires and trailer tires. Trailer tires are built to endure the side loading caused by this phenomenon.
__________________
Now-2014 Sierra 346RETS 5er BUB
Then-2002 Keystone Springdale 286RLDS TT
Nights camped in 2014-28, 2015-127, 2016-10
|
|
|
03-29-2014, 08:17 PM
|
#9
|
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Colorado
Posts: 74
|
So trailer tires have a completely different sidewall, Is that what you are saying at the end
__________________
Mike,Patty & Sampson
2015 Chevy 2500 4x4 Diesel
2014 Puma 230FBS
2003 Four Winns 245 Sundowner
|
|
|
03-29-2014, 08:24 PM
|
#10
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 247
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikier
So trailer tires have a completely different sidewall, Is that what you are saying at the end
|
That's correct. Many people switch to LT tires because they are trying to get away from the "China bombs", which is understandable. However, ST tires do have sidewalls that are designed to handle the loads put on them in trailer service.
__________________
Mike in Tennessee
Former 2 time FR owner
2007 Crossroads Cruiser 30QB Fifth Wheel
2008 F-250 Lariat 4x4 6.4 Powerstroke
Firestone Ride-Rites w/cab control
|
|
|
03-29-2014, 08:39 PM
|
#11
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 825
|
Check out YouTube backing semi trucks. same concept and it helped me when I first got my first fifth wheel
Sent from my SPH-L720 using Forest River Forums mobile app
__________________
2012 Cedar Creek Silverback 29RE
2011 GMC 2500HD Diesel
|
|
|
03-29-2014, 08:58 PM
|
#12
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,428
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikier
So trailer tires have a completely different sidewall, Is that what you are saying at the end
|
Yes, different sidewall design and the way the tread block is bonded to the tire is meant to handle side scrubbing loads differently than a P or LT tire. Interestingly, if a trailer tire is used as a driving/steering tire then it's just as likely to fail as an LT tire on a tandem axle trailer, incorrect loads placed against the tire.
There's actually quite a bit of engineering that goes into a tire and it's intended use.
__________________
Now-2014 Sierra 346RETS 5er BUB
Then-2002 Keystone Springdale 286RLDS TT
Nights camped in 2014-28, 2015-127, 2016-10
|
|
|
04-09-2014, 08:51 PM
|
#13
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 264
|
Something I do that has helped me as a newbie to backing a 5ver is to release the brakes on the camper. It seems to steer better. Try it next time.
|
|
|
04-09-2014, 09:01 PM
|
#14
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 806
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by SKnight
Yes, different sidewall design and the way the tread block is bonded to the tire is meant to handle side scrubbing loads differently than a P or LT tire. Interestingly, if a trailer tire is used as a driving/steering tire then it's just as likely to fail as an LT tire on a tandem axle trailer, incorrect loads placed against the tire.
There's actually quite a bit of engineering that goes into a tire and it's intended use.
|
Yes a lot of engineering goes into the tire, but I would have to say that the majority of the tires life is rolling down the interstate, I would rather not have a "maypop" at 65 I will replace mine with lt's when it's time, good enough for my TV, good enough for my 5er.
__________________
2006 2500HD CCSB 2WD 2014 Crusader 285RET
Nights camped in 2013 - not enough!, 2014 37, 2015 40, 2016 39, 2017 38, 2018 36, 2019 37, 2020 26, 2021 28
|
|
|
04-10-2014, 10:44 AM
|
#15
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: VA
Posts: 291
|
I am not sure what you mean by relase the brakes on the camper. But I did find that turning down my gain helped on certain types of ground. The biggest item I am still getting used to is that 1. due to the extra length, location of the pin to the truck and trucks turning radius that I need to pull about 5-8 feet further forward then I would with a tag of same total vehicle length. The turn starts a little slower, but you have WAY more manuverability with a 5th wheel.
|
|
|
04-10-2014, 06:16 PM
|
#16
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,002
|
Towing a 5'er is much easier than a TT. Backing up a 5'er takes a little more practice since the reaction time is delayed more with a 5'er. You need to start reversing your direction sooner.
Virtually no sway with a 5'er.
Only minor draw back is that a 5'er wants to cut turns sharper so you need to be mindful of curbs.
|
|
|
04-10-2014, 06:19 PM
|
#17
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,428
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrostek
I am not sure what you mean by relase the brakes on the camper. But I did find that turning down my gain helped on certain types of ground. The biggest item I am still getting used to is that 1. due to the extra length, location of the pin to the truck and trucks turning radius that I need to pull about 5-8 feet further forward then I would with a tag of same total vehicle length. The turn starts a little slower, but you have WAY more manuverability with a 5th wheel.
|
They mean just what you're doing with gain, disabling the trailer brakes.
What I do and many others do, we usually get out to eyeball our sites before backing in, right? As I walk back to my truck I unplug the trailer. That takes my trailer brakes out of the equation. I don't feel the trailer brakes hamper my backing in, but they sure are annoying.
So I see the site is fine, I unplug the trailer connector, back her on in there.
__________________
Now-2014 Sierra 346RETS 5er BUB
Then-2002 Keystone Springdale 286RLDS TT
Nights camped in 2014-28, 2015-127, 2016-10
|
|
|
04-10-2014, 10:50 PM
|
#18
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Roxboro, NC
Posts: 267
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike06081969
That's correct. Many people switch to LT tires because they are trying to get away from the "China bombs", which is understandable. However, ST tires do have sidewalls that are designed to handle the loads put on them in trailer service.
|
I moved from ST tires back to the specs of my 5er that calls for 14 ply LT tires. I found some from Goodyear that was made for trailer use and was steal belted not the bias ply that blew out on me going down the road.
Sent from my SCH-I545 using Forest River Forums mobile app
__________________
2007 GMC 2500 Duramax Crew Cab LB
2008 5th Wheel Cardinal 36LE
|
|
|
04-10-2014, 10:53 PM
|
#19
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: In our CC.
Posts: 646
|
Backing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ford Idaho
It will turn PDQ so short turns of the steering wheel are mandatory and everything will be backwards to what you are used to doing.
|
Whether you have a TT or a 5er, backing is the same, regarding the direction the wheel is turned.
__________________
Alan, Kathy & Cooper the camping cat
2014 Cedar Creek, 36CKTS
2013 GMC 2500 Denali
Duramax/Allison
Full timers since 5/30/2013
|
|
|
04-10-2014, 10:55 PM
|
#20
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: In our CC.
Posts: 646
|
We went from a 21' TT to a 40' 5er. Towing and backing are easier - though more caution is needed. I have a Super glide hitch by Pullrite. I can make 90 deg backing turns with my short bed truck.
__________________
Alan, Kathy & Cooper the camping cat
2014 Cedar Creek, 36CKTS
2013 GMC 2500 Denali
Duramax/Allison
Full timers since 5/30/2013
|
|
|
|
|
Thread Tools |
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
» Recent Discussions |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|