Lack of Manual trans on new trucks

[thebrakeman]

Originally Posted by clr

what I have not seen anyone say her yet is that the automatic trans of today is not remotely like the automatic trans of the prior to compute control of the vehicle days. Old automatic trans were very complex machines. New auto trans are almost manual trans with computer control of the shifting. The new auto trans is really very simple inside much like a manual trans. That being said the new auto trans is almost like having a robot shifting for you.

Originally Posted by SKnight

Automatics that still use torque convertors are still basically the same, but the way they are used make them more reliable and smoother.

But I think what clr is talking about is what's called a "dual-clutch automatic" or "automatic manuals". But these units have not replaced the torque-convertor autos. They are simply another design. They are mostly used on exotics. That's why many supercars no longer offer a true manual trans. The exception is the latest Ford Focus, which uses a dual-clutch automatic shifting manual.

These transmissions are manuals, but they have automation to do the shifting and work the clutch(es). To make them work as smooth and quick as an automatic, 1 clutch is for 1, 3, & 5, while a 2nd clutch is for 2, 4, and 6. While spinning up in 1st gear thru clutch A, 2nd gear is preselected for clutch B. As clutch A disengages, clutch B engages, and 3rd gear is preselected. Of course, the preselecting is done based on throttle position, speed, etc, etc, etc, so there is a lot that goes into that.

I also hear that there is somebody that is making a dual-clutch system, also using a torque convertor. This allows them to speed up the shifting, and work out of other tradeoffs.

Lots of differences in designs. It's not 1 or the other.

[TURBS]

How about nissans cvt trans.?
No shifting whatsoever!

TURBS
08 duramax tuned n modded, 32bhok Sabre
2015 camping "2 nights"

[trbomax]

People that stall a stick on a hill dont know how to drive it. The heel/toe technique applies and no body teaches that anymore except truck driveing school.

[Crusadernoob]

I love my Allison transmission, wouldn't trade it for nothin'

[MtnGuy]

Originally Posted by OldCoot

The old manuals required new clutch plates, throw out bearings and pressure plates quite regularly. They certainly were not bullet proof, especially if you ever went drag racing.

My 98 Jeep with 110,000 miles, and the wife's 04 Accord with 125,000 miles still have all of the original clutch pack parts.

I best knock on wood, though.

[Tonkatoy77]

Originally Posted by kandl

It's not the clutch - the limitation is related to the aluminum case that houses the G56 tranny's internal workings. Aftermarket has stepped up with girdles that reinforce the case and allow the tranny to handle much more torque than is is available in the OEM config.

The ZF6 has been know to handle 1000ft/lbs of torque on sled pullers for years.

[pgandw]

Originally Posted by trbomax

People that stall a stick on a hill dont know how to drive it. The heel/toe technique applies and no body teaches that anymore except truck driveing school.

That assumes that the gear ratios and engines are reasonably matched.

I do know how to drive a stick - I drove an MGA with no synchros for first, and failing synchros for 3rd. I've driven pickups with the "3 on the tree". And I've driven Fiats, Toyotas, and Mitsubishi 4 and 5 speed wagons and sedans as everyday drivers (mostly no tachs, shift by sound and feel). I learned "heel/toe" from the get-go in high school drivers ed (using Volkswagen Beetles, also no tach).

I would stall that Scion XB whenever I wasn't focused on making a smooth start. At first I thought it was me - until my wife who had grown up driving American sticks complained of stalling at stops, too. Then I looked more closely at the tach as I was starting from a stop and realized I needed 1800 RPM+ to make a smooth start from a stop if there was any upgrade. The coordination to slip the clutch long enough while adjusting throttle to get the smooth start took a lot of focus that previous stick shifts had not. My point was proved by 2 other drivers having the same miserable experience.

It is possible that altitude exacerbated the situation - at 6000 - 8000 ft, engine performance can be quite different than at sea level.

But the point of my post was not my driving ability, or lack of. The point of my post was that manual transmission sales are so poor nowadays that the standard compacts with sticks are difficult (or at least not fun) to drive because of mismatched gear ratios and engine torque curves - and manufacturers don't care.

Fred W

[trbomax]

It was a general statement,not a personal one.Never drove anything but trucks and cars with plenty of extra HP and good starting gears.I can not remember ever stalling anything on a hill,maybe because i learned to drive on a '28 chevy and some A-V8's with the old 39 merc top loaders,then at age 18 to a COE frieghtliner, and it wasnt syncro either! Never drove a rice burner though,(and thats not personal either,just a fact.)

edit) i would really like to have a 6x2 in my PSD instead of the auto,but it would be an almost impossible swap.

[OldCoot]

Originally Posted by MtnGuy

My 98 Jeep with 110,000 miles, and the wife's 04 Accord with 125,000 miles still have all of the original clutch pack parts.

I best knock on wood, though.

If you read what I stated, it specifically said especially if you did any drag racing. You also have to consider yours and you wife's age and driving habits plus the advancement in materials and those 50 yrs ago and teenager driving habits. I worked in a gas station and we averaged at least one clutch job a week.

[F and E Damp]

Sorry, duplicated info from an earlier post.

[WatkinsGlenCamper]

In 1967 I bought my first car, a 1956 Chevy with a 3 speed stick. Since then I've had about a dozen other cars/ trucks/SUVs with manual tyrannys. Today I own a 2000 Mustang GT, with, what else, but a 5 speed manual. Both of my sons learned to drive, at 16 years old, in my 1993 Mustang LX (notch-back), 5.0 with a 5 speed stick. My wife learn manual with my '72 El Camino (350, 4 speed). Presently I have a 2013 F150 with auto and it's a pleasure to drive, but when it comes to fun, I'll take my 2000 Mustang GT any day. Also, when I took Drivers Ed in high school, we drove both auto and manual in '66 and '67 Chevy Biscayne (6 cylinder) boats.

I read a few post mentioning "heel and toe". Many people that drive manuals, don't understand and can't preform that task. Along with moving from a dead start on a hill it also comes in handy when down shifting, hitting the throttle a bit while braking to match the engine revs with the rear wheels. Believe it or not, this saves a lot of wear and tear on the clutch and brakes. Of all the manual tyranny cars I've ever owned, only one had to have a new clutch installed, the '93 Mustang 5.0 my kids drove...and I have a pretty good idea why that clutch went bad.

[GreenImp]

As a young adult, you couldn't pay me to take an automatic. Anymore however, I find auto's far nicer to drive. I even have a 69 RS/SS Camaro Convertible w/Muncie 4sp sitting in the garage that I am considering converting over to an automatic. Shifting has just become a chore I can live without...other than when tearing up the sand dunes.

[thebrakeman]

I've tried heal/toe shifting, and have just never understood the point for modern vehicles. From what I understand, manuals didn't have syncros back in the day, so you needed to match revs when downshifting. When you needed to downshift while braking (for a corner, etc), this means heal/toe technique was required.

Today, why bother? Not necessary for downshifting for my '88, '89, nor '04 daily drivers. Downshifts just fine. If you aren't yet used to the clutch in a recent purchase, OK. Hold the brake and apply some gas to get you going on a hill. Then again, if you have a hand-brake, not necessary. For a vehicle that you are used to, I prefer to simply apply the gas and let the clutch out, however is necessary to do the job. No major slipping. Just do it quick enough so it doesn't stall.