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Old 05-01-2015, 02:49 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by clr View Post
what I have not seen anyone say her yet is that the automatic trans of today is not remotely like the automatic trans of the prior to compute control of the vehicle days. Old automatic trans were very complex machines. New auto trans are almost manual trans with computer control of the shifting. The new auto trans is really very simple inside much like a manual trans. That being said the new auto trans is almost like having a robot shifting for you.
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Originally Posted by SKnight
Automatics that still use torque convertors are still basically the same, but the way they are used make them more reliable and smoother.

But I think what clr is talking about is what's called a "dual-clutch automatic" or "automatic manuals". But these units have not replaced the torque-convertor autos. They are simply another design. They are mostly used on exotics. That's why many supercars no longer offer a true manual trans. The exception is the latest Ford Focus, which uses a dual-clutch automatic shifting manual.

These transmissions are manuals, but they have automation to do the shifting and work the clutch(es). To make them work as smooth and quick as an automatic, 1 clutch is for 1, 3, & 5, while a 2nd clutch is for 2, 4, and 6. While spinning up in 1st gear thru clutch A, 2nd gear is preselected for clutch B. As clutch A disengages, clutch B engages, and 3rd gear is preselected. Of course, the preselecting is done based on throttle position, speed, etc, etc, etc, so there is a lot that goes into that.

I also hear that there is somebody that is making a dual-clutch system, also using a torque convertor. This allows them to speed up the shifting, and work out of other tradeoffs.

Lots of differences in designs. It's not 1 or the other.
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Old 05-01-2015, 02:56 PM   #62
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How about nissans cvt trans.?
No shifting whatsoever!

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Old 05-01-2015, 03:52 PM   #63
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People that stall a stick on a hill dont know how to drive it. The heel/toe technique applies and no body teaches that anymore except truck driveing school.
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Old 05-01-2015, 03:57 PM   #64
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I love my Allison transmission, wouldn't trade it for nothin'
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Old 05-01-2015, 07:14 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by OldCoot View Post
The old manuals required new clutch plates, throw out bearings and pressure plates quite regularly. They certainly were not bullet proof, especially if you ever went drag racing.
My 98 Jeep with 110,000 miles, and the wife's 04 Accord with 125,000 miles still have all of the original clutch pack parts.

I best knock on wood, though.
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Old 05-01-2015, 07:30 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by kandl View Post
It's not the clutch - the limitation is related to the aluminum case that houses the G56 tranny's internal workings. Aftermarket has stepped up with girdles that reinforce the case and allow the tranny to handle much more torque than is is available in the OEM config.
The ZF6 has been know to handle 1000ft/lbs of torque on sled pullers for years.
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Old 05-01-2015, 07:54 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by trbomax View Post
People that stall a stick on a hill dont know how to drive it. The heel/toe technique applies and no body teaches that anymore except truck driveing school.
That assumes that the gear ratios and engines are reasonably matched.

I do know how to drive a stick - I drove an MGA with no synchros for first, and failing synchros for 3rd. I've driven pickups with the "3 on the tree". And I've driven Fiats, Toyotas, and Mitsubishi 4 and 5 speed wagons and sedans as everyday drivers (mostly no tachs, shift by sound and feel). I learned "heel/toe" from the get-go in high school drivers ed (using Volkswagen Beetles, also no tach).

I would stall that Scion XB whenever I wasn't focused on making a smooth start. At first I thought it was me - until my wife who had grown up driving American sticks complained of stalling at stops, too. Then I looked more closely at the tach as I was starting from a stop and realized I needed 1800 RPM+ to make a smooth start from a stop if there was any upgrade. The coordination to slip the clutch long enough while adjusting throttle to get the smooth start took a lot of focus that previous stick shifts had not. My point was proved by 2 other drivers having the same miserable experience.

It is possible that altitude exacerbated the situation - at 6000 - 8000 ft, engine performance can be quite different than at sea level.

But the point of my post was not my driving ability, or lack of. The point of my post was that manual transmission sales are so poor nowadays that the standard compacts with sticks are difficult (or at least not fun) to drive because of mismatched gear ratios and engine torque curves - and manufacturers don't care.

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Old 05-01-2015, 08:19 PM   #68
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It was a general statement,not a personal one.Never drove anything but trucks and cars with plenty of extra HP and good starting gears.I can not remember ever stalling anything on a hill,maybe because i learned to drive on a '28 chevy and some A-V8's with the old 39 merc top loaders,then at age 18 to a COE frieghtliner, and it wasnt syncro either! Never drove a rice burner though,(and thats not personal either,just a fact.)

edit) i would really like to have a 6x2 in my PSD instead of the auto,but it would be an almost impossible swap.
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Old 05-01-2015, 08:50 PM   #69
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My 98 Jeep with 110,000 miles, and the wife's 04 Accord with 125,000 miles still have all of the original clutch pack parts.

I best knock on wood, though.
If you read what I stated, it specifically said especially if you did any drag racing. You also have to consider yours and you wife's age and driving habits plus the advancement in materials and those 50 yrs ago and teenager driving habits. I worked in a gas station and we averaged at least one clutch job a week.
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Old 05-01-2015, 10:02 PM   #70
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Sorry, duplicated info from an earlier post.
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