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Old 12-12-2017, 08:25 AM   #1
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Level towing of a 5th wheel?

I just picked up a 33' Wildcat 5th wheel, which I will be towing with a 2017 F350 Superduty. My 5th wheel hitch and pin box are set as low as possible such that I have about 6" of clearance above my trucks bed rails. The issue is that my 5th wheel is towing nose high at about 4" and my truck is also squatting down with the load to the point that on coming drivers are flashing their hi-beams at me when I tow at night. I plan to add a set of Timbren SES bump stops to correct the squatting issue, but this will only make the nose high issue worse by a couple of inches.
First of all, just how important is towing your 5th wheel level? People have told me that this nose high towing situation will put excess weight on the rear axle of my 5th wheel RV, but I thought that the leaf-spring equalizer by design was meant to take care of this issue.
If towing level is still necessary, my only option seems to be lifting the 5th wheel RV some how.
My tandem axles are already on the top of my leaf-springs [corrected below by OP], so an axle flip is out. I was considering swapping my 15" wheels and tires for 16" versions, which would gain me a couple of inches. I was also considering installing a Lippert Correct Track axle alignment system to gain another couple of inches as well.
Doing these things will cost $$$, so just how important is towing 5th wheels level? Any feed back on this subject is welcome. Thanks
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Old 12-12-2017, 09:34 AM   #2
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Pin Weight

What do you think the loaded pin weight of the rig is? Mine is about 2500 lbs and it hardy pushes down on my 2013 one ton single axel Ford. I have 8-9 inches between my rails and the 5R. Rides flat, but that depends a lot on the build specs. My Ford is rated at about 3700 lbs Payload.
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Old 12-12-2017, 09:40 AM   #3
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Air bags.
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Old 12-12-2017, 09:47 AM   #4
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Any photos of it hooked-up?
Something doesn't seem right with the squatting.
I'm at 2k+- on pin weight and it doesn't even touch the overload springs when hooked-up to my 2017 F-250 S/D. (single axle)

Also just want to be sure about your hitch/pin box... the hitch would need to be as low as possible but the pin box would need to be as high as possible. You mentioned both were as low as possible.

I did have a combination where I had to run about 5" clearance between the bed rails/overhang and was able to get by. I wouldn't want much less than that though.
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Old 12-12-2017, 10:14 AM   #5
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Your setup doesn't reflect everything I have seen. I have a 37 ft fifth wheel and it only squats my truck 1.25 inches when I hook up. (I have a 2016 F350). Once I hook up, I can check my front to rear level using my "Levelup" indicator and it reads 0.0 front to rear. I do have Firestone airbags under my truck but that's because I occasionally move my dozer on a gooseneck trailer and it's pretty heavy. Pulling my fifth wheel, I just have the minimum 10 psi in the air bags. I also probably have about 6 inches of clearance between the top of my bedside and the bottom surface of the fifth wheel. Unless your setup is actually squatting your truck more than a couple of inches (I don't see how) I think I'd just adjust my headlights a bit lower and carry on.
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Old 12-12-2017, 10:39 AM   #6
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hitch weight of Wildcat

According to the Wildcat spec sheet the hitch weight is supposed to be 1532lbs.
I misspoke when I said my pi box was as low as possible, I meant it is as high as possible and currently only have between 5 to 6" above my bed side rails and the 5th wheel. My 2017 F350 6.7L Diesel has the 6-3/4' box and I was a little surprised at how much it squatted when we lowered the Wildcat (UVW 9095lbs) onto the truck. I don't have any pictures of the truck and 5th wheel hooked up. I've only towed this 5th wheel once so far and that trip was straight home from the dealer at night after being at he dealer for 7 hrs straight.
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Old 12-12-2017, 10:44 AM   #7
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Is your hitch a slider, possibly locked in rear position? Puts weight too far back
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Old 12-12-2017, 10:47 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cujo7240 View Post
According to the Wildcat spec sheet the hitch weight is supposed to be 1532lbs.
If this 1523 spec is "dry weight", you'll find it's a meaningless number. You'll find many posts on this site that say "dry weight is for suckers"... and many of us have proved that is true.
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Old 12-12-2017, 10:49 AM   #9
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Pin Weight

That's not much pin weight. Something seems off. I would go to the scales and get that pin weighed. 1500 lbs should not squat a one ton very much if at all. On my 2013 short bed, crew cab, Lariat, 4X4, the brochure specs the payload at 3970 lbs.
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Old 12-12-2017, 10:49 AM   #10
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Cujo7240....
You didn't mention if your F350 was DRW or SRW.
Also does it have a 'lift kit' installed on your truck ?

The pin weight must be quite high... it would be interesting to find out what it is.

Is there a generator in the 5th wheel front storage compartment?
Perhaps readjust some of the weight in the 5th wheel to see if that helps.

With the truck having excessive squat in the rear it will probably make for some white knuckle driving.

Perhaps take your truck in to a spring / suspension shop to see if there is anything they could do to help level the truck out with overload springs.

However, if the truck gets leveled then that will raise the 5th wheel nose even more.

So to answer your question: it is best to have the trailer as level as possible and the truck should not have any excessive squatting in the rear.

Check that pin weight .


(sorry I was writing this post as the OP was posting an update)
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Old 12-12-2017, 10:54 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brookstone345sa View Post
Is your hitch a slider, possibly locked in rear position? Puts weight too far back
This sounds like it could be the problem !
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Old 12-12-2017, 10:58 AM   #12
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Out of Level towing

How much out of level (Nose Up) would be considered too much then? I'm currently about 4" nose high and if I add the Timbren's I'd be closer to 6" high in the front.
SlowrideHD suggests I just adjust my lights and carry on, which is cheapest option for sure.
Does the leaf-spring equalizer distribute the axle load between the tandem axles or am I in fact over loading the rear axle towing nose high like some people suggest?
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Old 12-12-2017, 11:05 AM   #13
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Towing nose high does transfer some of the weight to the rear axle of the trailer.
How much?... who knows unless you do some before and after scaling.

I understand if you correct the squatting, your problem is going to get worse but something seems amiss with your whole set-up.

1500 pounds of pin weight shouldn't squat a F-350.
You didn't say the year of your 5th wheel but newer 5th wheels generally, are built slightly higher to accommodate the higher stance of 3/4-1 ton trucks. You seem to have a lot of things going against you.
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Old 12-12-2017, 11:14 AM   #14
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My truck is a Stock F350 Superduty shortbed Lariat SRW model and the Wildcat UVW of 1532lbs should be pretty close, since at the time the 5th wheel was brand new and I hadn't loaded anything into it at that time. There is not any generator in this RV.
The hitch is a Reese 16K Titan slider hitch, but it was in the front towing position when the frame measurements were taken showing the RV was 4" out of level.
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Old 12-12-2017, 11:16 AM   #15
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Both the F350 and 5th wheel RV are 2017 models.
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Old 12-12-2017, 11:25 AM   #16
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Quote:
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.... the Wildcat UVW of 1532lbs should be pretty close, since at the time the 5th wheel was brand new and I hadn't loaded anything into it at that time. There is not any generator in this RV.
Did the dealership install your propane tanks and your battery(ies)? Did they add a second air conditioner? These will add to your dry weight. Enough to cause the squat? Can't say.
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Old 12-12-2017, 11:38 AM   #17
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You said an axle flip is out because your axles are on top of your springs.

If your leaf springs curve upward, putting the axles underneath the springs will actually lift the height of the camper.
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Old 12-12-2017, 12:26 PM   #18
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My axles are below my springs already, so there's no gains to be had there.
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Old 12-12-2017, 12:31 PM   #19
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Did the dealership install your propane tanks and your battery(ies)? Did they add a second air conditioner? These will add to your dry weight. Enough to cause the squat? Can't say.
From what I read the battery and full propane tanks are included in the dry weight of an RV. My RV did come equipped with a 2nd (optional) AC unit installed, so that was not included in the dry weight value, but I don't think that will be tipping the scales that much IMO.
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Old 12-12-2017, 01:19 PM   #20
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Being that your unit has a conventional leaf spring setup. Being somewhat out of level won't increase the weight on the rear tires nor remove weight from the front set if it's working properly, and the equalizer isn't bottomed out.

Torsion axle setups change the tire load due to out of level conditions, and those units should be adjusted to tow as level as possible.

I think everyone here (myself included) would like to see some pictures and some scale numbers of this rig.
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