Maintenance: Gas vs Diesel

[CurtPutnam]

Recent threads about maintenance costs on Mercedes Sprinters have raised some concerns. I would expect diesel maintenance to be slightly more expensive than similar service on gas but, except for oil changes, less frequent.

What is the real world story on Big 3 (Ford, GM, Dodge) pickup diesels? How often and how much?

Thanks for your time!

[BigH]

A coworker came from a job where he managed a fleet of trucks with representatives from Ram, Ford, Chevy and they have used diesels since the beginning of time -until recently (couple years) switching everything to gas except for a couple trucks.

I questioned him extensively before making my truck purchase this year. He told me the scheduled maintenance costs were not an issue...The diesels were more for an oil change but they go twice as long between changes...the fuel filters were a minor inconvenience and cost but nothing about the scheduled routine maintenance was that big of deal. They bought DEF by the 55 gallon drum which was much cheaper than paying at the pump.

The reasons his company switched to gas was the down time for unscheduled maintenance on the newer diesels (not as reliable as they were due to the current complicated emission equipment) and the amount miles/time it used to take to overcome the initial higher cost of a diesel purchase was becoming unobtainable due to emissions related repair costs at higher miles.

[timfromma]

So far (knock on wood), the only maintenance I've performed on my truck has been scheduled maintenance and 1 set of tires. A typical oil change and tire rotation runs me about $100. A full set of tires was close to $1300.

[KRSmitty]

On my 2007 Ram 2500 5.9 CTD I changed the oil around 7500 - 10,000 miles. 12 quarts of oil, around $30 (used whatever was on sale at Wally World) and an oil filter ($10 or less). Every other oil change I would change the fuel filter ($20).

I have not changed the oil/fuel filter yet on my 2017 (Around 7k miles on it.). But, from what I see the oil and filter would be around the same price. The fuel filter seems to be significantly higher, around $100, if I am looking at on NAPA correctly.

So around $150 every 14-15k miles?

[aceinspp]

Originally Posted by KRSmitty

On my 2007 Ram 2500 5.9 CTD I changed the oil around 7500 - 10,000 miles. 12 quarts of oil, around $30 (used whatever was on sale at Wally World) and an oil filter ($10 or less). Every other oil change I would change the fuel filter ($20).

I have not changed the oil/fuel filter yet on my 2017 (Around 7k miles on it.). But, from what I see the oil and filter would be around the same price. The fuel filter seems to be significantly higher, around $100, if I am looking at on NAPA correctly.

So around $150 every 14-15k miles?

Don't know you could by oil for $2.50 a quart and I sure would not be using in a diesel. Maybe that was back in 007 Most oils today run $5 at least, that $60. Later RJD

[drittal]

If you are like me, you only put 12-15k miles on a year so gas or diesel I’m changing 2x. The 2 fuel filters yearly are not inexpensive. If you live in cold climates like I do, stanadyne fuel treatment. I’ve seen enough truck on the side of the road durning a cold snap to know I don’t want that to be me. For me, maintenance and additives have more than doubled vs my 6.4l

[Zoom]

Since most of the miles I put on my F250 are for towing I change oil and filter every 5000 miles. I change the fuel filter every other oil change. I know I could probably go to 7500 miles but with the purchase price of the new diesels I want this truck to last as long as possible! Oil change and tire rotation is around the $120 mark at a dealer. The biggest difference between a diesel and gas powered is the amount of oil needed for a change. Mine takes 13 quarts.

[KRSmitty]

Originally Posted by aceinspp

Don't know you could by oil for $2.50 a quart and I sure would not be using in a diesel. Maybe that was back in 007 Most oils today run $5 at least, that $60. Later RJD

I used the Walmart brand, Supertech 15w40, $9.44 a gallon. When on sale I would also use Mobil, $12.44 a gallon. 130,000 miles on the truck when I traded it in. You can get Rotella at walmart for less than $4 a quart. You might be buying your oil at the wrong place.

[timfromma]

I change my oil and fuel filter when my instrument cluster tells me it's time.

[KRSmitty]

Originally Posted by timfromma

I change my oil and fuel filter when my instrument cluster tells me it's time.

X2 - Will be doing so with my 2017.

[Jim34RL]

Being a retired engineer I tend to maintain my vehicles per the O&M guides that the manufacture provides. I also keep a spread sheet on all of my cost to operate my truck.

I do spend a little extra on my maintenance but I want to know that I can achieve the maximum life out of my truck. I buy Shell 15W-40 Rotella T-4 oil @ $13.99 a gallon with a FleetGuard StrataPore oil filter for $13.95. Engine takes three gallons. The filter is changed at every oil change which is done every 6 months. Anti-freeze is changed every 50,000 miles or five years what every comes first. Both fuel filters are changed every 15,000 miles ( I added an extra 2UM fuel filter after the primary filter 5UM, but before the CP3 fuel pump). The engine air filter is changed every two years. The front suspension components are grease every 5,000 miles, (ball joints and tie rod ends have been changed to grease able units). The transmission oil and filters along with the axle oil is changed every 40,000 miles. The serpentine belt was changed at 80,000 miles. I am on my second set of batteries for my truck, the truck takes two batteries.

So my maintance cost breaks down to $1.00 per every mile driven. But this also includes three sets of tires and one extra set of rims. I now have summer tires for towing and winter tires when not towing my fiver. This also includes the cost of the component changes to the front suspension. I also had the front seats rebuilt with new seat cushions and leather with an adjustable lumbar support for the passenger seat ( driver seat has one from the factory as standard).

I also do oil sampling of the engine oil which is done once a year.

My truck is 10 years old and has 112,000 miles now and I plan on keeping this for another 10 years.

[dustman_stx]

Originally Posted by BigH

A coworker came from a job where he managed a fleet of trucks with representatives from Ram, Ford, Chevy and they have used diesels since the beginning of time -until recently (couple years) switching everything to gas except for a couple trucks.

I questioned him extensively before making my truck purchase this year. He told me the scheduled maintenance costs were not an issue...The diesels were more for an oil change but they go twice as long between changes...the fuel filters were a minor inconvenience and cost but nothing about the scheduled routine maintenance was that big of deal. They bought DEF by the 55 gallon drum which was much cheaper than paying at the pump.

The reasons his company switched to gas was the down time for unscheduled maintenance on the newer diesels (not as reliable as they were due to the current complicated emission equipment) and the amount miles/time it used to take to overcome the initial higher cost of a diesel purchase was becoming unobtainable due to emissions related repair costs at higher miles.

This is the whole point that many current diesel owners overlook. It's not maintenance costs, it's long term repair costs that make a new diesel very unattractive financially. For users that rarely, if ever, keep a truck past 100K miles, this won't matter as much. But, I expect to see resale value of diesel versus gas powered HD trucks equalize. The idea that a diesel is good for 500K still persists from the "golden years" of the 7.3L PSD and 5.9L Cummins. While the block and rotating assembly of a current gen may last this long, it's unlikely that you'll get to there without incurring significant expenses from the DEF, DPF or HPFP systems. The problem for me is that one major failure(never mind that a fuel pump failure shouldn't be "major", but on these new diesels it is) on a newer gen used diesel could pretty much wipe out it's entire value- or a big chunk of it.

[aceinspp]

Originally Posted by KRSmitty

I used the Walmart brand, Supertech 15w40, $9.44 a gallon. When on sale I would also use Mobil, $12.44 a gallon. 130,000 miles on the truck when I traded it in. You can get Rotella at walmart for less than $4 a quart. You might be buying your oil at the wrong place.

Nope buy at Walmart but use the good stuff. Better check that it meets the requirements of today new vehicles. Later RJD

[Wileykid]

Originally Posted by Jim34RL

Being a retired engineer I tend to maintain my vehicles per the O&M guides that the manufacture provides. I also keep a spread sheet on all of my cost to operate my truck.

I do spend a little extra on my maintenance but I want to know that I can achieve the maximum life out of my truck. I buy Shell 15W-40 Rotella T-4 oil @ $13.99 a gallon with a FleetGuard StrataPore oil filter for $13.95. Engine takes three gallons. The filter is changed at every oil change which is done every 6 months. Anti-freeze is changed every 50,000 miles or five years what every comes first. Both fuel filters are changed every 15,000 miles ( I added an extra 2UM fuel filter after the primary filter 5UM, but before the CP3 fuel pump). The engine air filter is changed every two years. The front suspension components are grease every 5,000 miles, (ball joints and tie rod ends have been changed to grease able units). The transmission oil and filters along with the axle oil is changed every 40,000 miles. The serpentine belt was changed at 80,000 miles. I am on my second set of batteries for my truck, the truck takes two batteries.

So my maintance cost breaks down to $1.00 per every mile driven. But this also includes three sets of tires and one extra set of rims. I now have summer tires for towing and winter tires when not towing my fiver. This also includes the cost of the component changes to the front suspension. I also had the front seats rebuilt with new seat cushions and leather with an adjustable lumbar support for the passenger seat ( driver seat has one from the factory as standard).

I also do oil sampling of the engine oil which is done once a year.

My truck is 10 years old and has 112,000 miles now and I plan on keeping this for another 10 years.

Are you saying that with your breakdown of $1.00 a mile for maintenance and 112K miles, you have spent $112K on the truck? Or are you saying $.10 a mile, which with all the stuff you have bought, and maintenance would seem to be more like it to me.

So far in the 18 months I have owned my '16 Chevy DuraMax with 32K miles now, 4 oil changes, 1 fuel filter, and one set of new tires. Consider that normal maintenance. It has about 20K miles pulling a 10K pound trailer.

Mark

[wildcatter]

I have a 2014 RAM CCLB with the 6.7L cummins and Aisin transmission, I use this as my daily driver as well as towing, I change my oil at 10k niles, the computer tells me I can go 15k but since I use it as a daily driver (city use) I change it at 10K, my fuel filters can also go 15K miles, here is a breakdown of what it cost me in maintenance, also the manual says 15K for the Aisin transmission fluid and 30K for the standard transmission, several certified cunnins/Aisin mechanics told me they don't change the Aisin transmission fluid until 30K miles. The towing power between the gas and diesel are worlds apart. Some people will tell you the long term maintenance and fixes are a lot more on a diesel, I say poohey, you can get a lemon with a gas motor just like you can with a diesel.

This is me doing the maintenance.
Oil (10K miles) - $70.00 once a year

Fuel filters (2) (15k miles) - 85.00 once a year, usually change them when doing the oil since I am getting dirty anyways.

Air filter $40.00 once a year.

Maintenance done at dealer
Transmission (30K) $230.00 - If I did this myself it would be around $100.00.

[dustman_stx]

Originally Posted by wildcatter

Some people will tell you the long term maintenance and fixes are a lot more on a diesel, I say poohey, you can get a lemon with a gas motor just like you can with a diesel.

You can say "poohey"?? all you want, but it won't change the fact the repairs are MUCH more costly on a new diesel than a gas. I had a 2015 6.7PSD that had to have several DEF components replaced under warranty at ~18K miles. Would have cost me $3400 had it not been under warranty. Almost unheard of for a gas truck to have those types of costs without an actual engine or transmission failure- most certainly not with a secondary emissions system. New gas engines are obviously more complicated and expensive to repair than old gas engines as well, but the emissions controls and fuel systems on the new diesels has exponentially increased the complexity and cost over diesels of just 15 years ago. There are reasons to own a diesel- but for the life of me I just don't understand this whole "head in the sand" mentality of folks not accepting the basic fact that new diesels have a lot of VERY expensive systems and components that will fail- most likely much sooner than these unrealistic expectations of 500K trouble free miles.

[Jim34RL]

Originally Posted by Wileykid

Are you saying that with your breakdown of $1.00 a mile for maintenance and 112K miles, you have spent $112K on the truck? Or are you saying $.10 a mile, which with all the stuff you have bought, and maintenance would seem to be more like it to me.

So far in the 18 months I have owned my '16 Chevy DuraMax with 32K miles now, 4 oil changes, 1 fuel filter, and one set of new tires. Consider that normal maintenance. It has about 20K miles pulling a 10K pound trailer.

Mark

Yes you’re right it’s $.10 a mile I have to change the formula in my spreadsheet I have the numerator and denominator switched in the cells thanks for pointing that out didn’t catch it.

[aeblank]

Diesel power is hard to beat.

Why are people changing their fuel filter so frequently? I haven't changed mine in 23k miles. Going by the gauge, it'll be a bit yet.

[Lins]

Lots of good points mentioned on here. Maintenance costs have increased since we bought a diesel, but the power and exhaust brake are awesome for towing in the hills, and we plan on keeping it for the long run. Resale will be way better if we go to sell or trade in and the engine should last 2-3x a gas engine. No emissions problems yet for us, although it has only been a year, but they are getting more reliable. Unless the truck is in regen, it doesn't smell, and except for the moisture spots inside the tailpipe, it's still as clean as when we bought it. Yes a major repair will cost more, but it's still cheaper than buying a new vehicle every few years like some people. For you Ram HD owners, don't forget to grease the front drive shaft! A lot of shops can't find the fitting.

[banda]

The OP only asked about the big 3, but I thought I'd throw in the info that my 2010 Toyota Tundra had to have the air pump and related valves replaced to the tune of $3000. Apparently this is a common issue for 2007-2010 models, so Toyota increased the warranty on this to 10 years or 150,000 miles, so thank goodness there was no cost to me.