What should be the Max 5th wheel.. that we should consider.. if we upgrade in the near future? The tv is a 2012 F250 diesel supercab 4x2..3.31 rearend..we now have a 2 slide -out 5th wheel... thinking of going to a 3 or 4 slide out unit
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2014 Crusader 325 TE....2012.. F 250.. Supercab XLT, 4x2 , diesel....days camped 2011 ... 28.... days camped 2012...115 ... days camped 2013...155...2014...171 and counting
Your limit will be defined by pin weight not total camper weight. If you haven't already, take your truck to set of scales loaded ready to camp full of fuel, passengers and gear. The payload (pin weight) limit will be the trucks GVWR less the actual loaded weight. You can also determine payload (pin weight) limit by rear axle weight rating (RAWR) verses actual rear axle weight.
Your truck is rated to pull 16000? lbs but will be limited to a pin weight of around 2000 lbs (by GVWR). Using 20% pin weight, that a 10000 lb 5th wheel. If you use the RAWR, the pin weight limit would be probably be above 3000 lbs. Your choice...
Your limit will be defined by pin weight not total camper weight. If you haven't already, take your truck to set of scales loaded ready to camp full of fuel, passengers and gear. The payload (pin weight) limit will be the trucks GVWR less the actual loaded weight. You can also determine payload (pin weight) limit by rear axle weight rating (RAWR) verses actual rear axle weight.
Your truck is rated to pull 16000? lbs but will be limited to a pin weight of around 2000 lbs (by GVWR). Using 20% pin weight, that a 10000 lb 5th wheel. If you use the RAWR, the pin weight limit would be probably be above 3000 lbs. Your choice...
Dave
still trying to understand this ... if the GCWR according to the Ford Guide Is 23,500 lbs and my truck loaded "ready to camp" would weigh say... 8,500lbs. Wouldnt that be the weight it ( the F250) can pull ?? and ..according to the Ford guide i have a Payload capacity of 3,000 lbs..
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2014 Crusader 325 TE....2012.. F 250.. Supercab XLT, 4x2 , diesel....days camped 2011 ... 28.... days camped 2012...115 ... days camped 2013...155...2014...171 and counting
still trying to understand this ... if the GCWR according to the Ford Guide Is 23,500 lbs and my truck loaded "ready to camp" would weigh say... 8,500lbs. Wouldnt that be the weight it ( the F250) can pull ?? and ..according to the Ford guide i have a Payload capacity of 3,000 lbs..
I started to weigh in on this conversation, but at the risk of starting a huge debate, I decided to offer only this advice. Buy what you are comfortable towing and what you feel is within your truck's specs. I have a 2500HD and tow 14K+ and don't give it a second thought.
still trying to understand this ... if the GCWR according to the Ford Guide Is 23,500 lbs and my truck loaded "ready to camp" would weigh say... 8,500lbs. Wouldnt that be the weight it ( the F250) can pull ?? and ..according to the Ford guide i have a Payload capacity of 3,000 lbs..
As I'm trying to explain, the issue isn't the amount of weight you can pull, it's the amount of weight that the truck can carry.
The Ford payload guide is useless, that why you should weigh your truck ready to camp. Then you decide if you want to set your pin weight limit based on the truck's GVWR or it's RAWR.
Your truck has a GVWR of 10000 lbs but weighs around 8000 lbs ready to camp and therefore a pin weight of 2000 lbs would be at the GVWR for the truck. Most use the rear axle weight rating of the truck which would allow a pin weight of at least 1000 lbs more.
[QUOTE=Dave_Monica;261690]As I'm trying to explain, the issue isn't the amount of weight you can pull, it's the amount of weight that the truck can carry.
The Ford payload guide is useless, that why you should weigh your truck ready to camp. Then you decide if you want to set your pin weight limit based on the truck's GVWR or it's RAWR.
Your truck has a GVWR of 10000 lbs but weighs around 8000 lbs ready to camp and therefore a pin weight of 2000 lbs would be at the GVWR for the truck. Most use the rear axle weight rating of the truck which would allow a pin weight of at least 1000 lbs more.
Again, your choice of which limit to use...
Well according to the "Ford specs" Column... My truck would have a rear axel rating of 6,200 lbs..SO .. what... do i add or subtract from that amount ?? ..and according to the "payload selector " it seems my truck is actually rated for 3,900 lbs
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2014 Crusader 325 TE....2012.. F 250.. Supercab XLT, 4x2 , diesel....days camped 2011 ... 28.... days camped 2012...115 ... days camped 2013...155...2014...171 and counting
Just my opinion I would be a little Leary of the rear axle ratio you have. Perhaps you'll get more comments on that issue.
That rear axel that i have... is giving me excellent fuel economy ( when not towing )... 25 mpg and up ...at speeds between 40 and 55 mph..Towing mpgs at around 15 mpg average.. so far.. only have 4,000 miles on this truck at present..
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2014 Crusader 325 TE....2012.. F 250.. Supercab XLT, 4x2 , diesel....days camped 2011 ... 28.... days camped 2012...115 ... days camped 2013...155...2014...171 and counting
That rear axel that i have... is giving me excellent fuel economy ( when not towing )... 25 mpg and up ...at speeds between 40 and 55 mph..Towing mpgs at around 15 mpg average.. so far.. only have 4,000 miles on this truck at present..
It sounds like you have already made your mind up.Just do what feels right for you and the safety of your family and others. IMHO I would not push the truck to far over the MFGS. recommendations. As far as fuel economy, yours it's fantastic. I prefer a rear axle ratio of at least 3.73 I think the truck works much easier for me... less strain on OLD MAX when towing and decent fuel economy towing. Since OLD MAX is not a daily driver it works for me.
The other thing did you mention the loaded weight of your coach ? I may have missed it. Again do your homework and do what feels good for you. Just my OPINION.
I started to weigh in on this conversation, but at the risk of starting a huge debate, I decided to offer only this advice. Buy what you are comfortable towing and what you feel is within your truck's specs. I have a 2500HD and tow 14K+ and don't give it a second thought.
I have a 2008 GMC Sierra 2500HD Crewcab with Duramax diesel (Allison Transmission) and my truck is at its max gross weight (9300 pounds) with a 9100 pound 5th wheel on its back. With hitch, generator, 10 gallons spare diesel, and family the 7800 pound curb weight empty catches up to GVWR pretty fast.
Remember a 15th wheel requires a pin weight of 15-25 percent (20 percent optimum handling) of the the total loaded camper weight for safe towing.
A 10,000 pound 5th wheel will have a pin weight range of 1500 - 2500 pounds
A 15,000 pound 5th wheel will have a pin weight range of 2250 - 3750 pounds
Optimum pin load will be in the middle of those ranges.
Newer 2500HDs will have an almost 1000 pound higher GVWR due to a frame change in 2010 (From a "C" frame to a "BOX" frame similar to their 3500).
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Lou & Freya the wonder dog
2008 GMC Sierra 3000HD Allison Duramax
2019 Flagstaff 8529FL
Well according to the "Ford specs" Column... My truck would have a rear axel rating of 6,200 lbs..SO .. what... do i add or subtract from that amount ?? ..and according to the "payload selector " it seems my truck is actually rated for 3,900 lbs
You would subtract the actual rear axle weight of your truck loaded, ready to camp. If your RAWR is 6200 lbs and by the scale it actually weighs 3200 lbs., you have 3000 lbs of payload available for pin weight before you exceed the rear axle weight rating, RAWR.
If your truck's GVWR is 10000 lbs and by the scale it actually weighs 8000 lbs ready to camp, you have 2000 lbs of payload capacity available for pin weight before you exceed the trucks GVWR.
I'm not saying whether it right or wrong, but there's lots of people towing with 3/4 ton trucks where they're exceeding the truck's GVWR but under the RAWR.
It's good to use actual, scaled weight to determine available payload as it's a 'real' number...not some BS number with a 150 lb driver and no options.
You would subtract the actual rear axle weight of your truck loaded, ready to camp. If your RAWR is 6200 lbs and by the scale it actually weighs 3200 lbs., you have 3000 lbs of payload available for pin weight before you exceed the rear axle weight rating, RAWR.
If your truck's GVWR is 10000 lbs and by the scale it actually weighs 8000 lbs ready to camp, you have 2000 lbs of payload capacity available for pin weight before you exceed the trucks GVWR.
I'm not saying whether it right or wrong, but there's lots of people towing with 3/4 ton trucks where they're exceeding the truck's GVWR but under the RAWR.
It's good to use actual, scaled weight to determine available payload as it's a 'real' number...not some BS number with a 150 lb driver and no options.
Dave
X-2 Weigh it !!! Then do the calculations. Here's a good link for You. CAT Scale costs about $10.00.
I'm not saying whether it right or wrong, but there's lots of people towing with 3/4 ton trucks where they're exceeding the truck's GVWR but under the RAWR.
It's good to use actual, scaled weight to determine available payload as it's a 'real' number...not some BS number with a 150 lb driver and no options.
Dave
Oh, I have lots more room on my axle's max weight; however while the axle may not snap, my frame just might.
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Lou & Freya the wonder dog
2008 GMC Sierra 3000HD Allison Duramax
2019 Flagstaff 8529FL
It sounds like you have already made your mind up.Just do what feels right for you and the safety of your family and others. IMHO I would not push the truck to far over the MFGS. recommendations. As far as fuel economy, yours it's fantastic. I prefer a rear axle ratio of at least 3.73 I think the truck works much easier for me... less strain on OLD MAX when towing and decent fuel economy towing. Since OLD MAX is not a daily driver it works for me.
The other thing did you mention the loaded weight of your coach ? I may have missed it. Again do your homework and do what feels good for you. Just my OPINION.
my present 5th wheel is 7,700 lbs dry weight .. probably loaded at 9,000 lbs ?? Have never been to the scales yet...
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2014 Crusader 325 TE....2012.. F 250.. Supercab XLT, 4x2 , diesel....days camped 2011 ... 28.... days camped 2012...115 ... days camped 2013...155...2014...171 and counting
my present 5th wheel is 7,700 lbs dry weight .. probably loaded at 9,000 lbs ?? Have never been to the scales yet...
.. and... i would not say that i have made my mind up...Just trying to get the facts..if...we should ever go with a 3 or 4 slide -out 5th wheel in the future
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2014 Crusader 325 TE....2012.. F 250.. Supercab XLT, 4x2 , diesel....days camped 2011 ... 28.... days camped 2012...115 ... days camped 2013...155...2014...171 and counting
.. and... i would not say that i have made my mind up...Just trying to get the facts..if...we should ever go with a 3 or 4 slide -out 5th wheel in the future
I hope you've gotten some good info to help you make your decision. It might be a good idea to research a couple 5'vrs you like and with that info see if the 5'vr matches up with the capacity of your truck. I think with weighing your truck with all your gear and knowing what 5'vr you want, do the calculations and that should put things in perspective for you. Don't forget to add some extra weight for gear, food,cloths, and all those things you put in the trailer. I know it was an education for me when I first started my research for my trailers.
I've read lots of threads now about tow capacities, etc. I'm racking my brain and can't for the life of me remember ever seeing anyone actually break an axle, frame, etc. Has anyone else??? I live in a rural area and trucks are routinely severely overloaded doing farm work around here. I personally know of a 96 F350 hauling a load of logs on a 30ft dovetail that weighed in right at 24,000lbs. I also know of a gentleman running a lawn service using an old Chevy S10 towing a heavy duty 16 foot flatbed loaded with lawn equipment. He has so much tongue weight his truck is almost popping a wheelie(He's been doing this for years, too). My point isn't that it is safe to overload your vehicle- I'm just trying to point out that, IMHO, the risk is not in "breaking" the vehicle(at least not a frame or axle). It boils down to can you stop fast enough, can you maintain control of the rig if maneuvering quickly, can you maintain enough speed to not hinder other drivers without frying a transmission, are you able to maintain control in the event of a blowout, etc.(I fully understand the the ratings on the vehicle have a direct impact on these issues- but these issues all are tremendously impacted by driver ability as well) None of the ratings take into account driver experience or ability. There are people out there that don't need to tow a grey tank to the dump station, much less a 10,000 lb camper. I think by suggesting you are "safe" as long as you are within load ratings is missing a huge piece of the pie. I know for arguments sake we are only addressing the issue of the TV, but let's not forget about what I consider to be even more important- the driver. Also, none of the published ratings take into account road conditions. Given a certain load, I'd feel much more comfortable with less truck on a flat straight road as opposed to a mountain road. I guess my main point is that TV ratings are not the be all end all of safe towing. Don't overestimate your ability as a driver and consider your terrain as well.
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