Micro Lite 23FB Towing help

[sdalton]

So, I'm new to the world of TT which has caused me to over analyze and research everything tow involved.... thus I AM OVERWHELMED, and need your advice!

A little info:
-TV 2010 Toyota Tacoma w/ tow capacity of 6500 lbs and hitch weight limit of 650 lbs. Also had a TSB done which adds a fourth leaf to the rear suspension.
- Proposed TT is a 2011 Micro lite 23fb which weighs in at 3,700 lbs, with a hitch weight of 569 lbs (all dry)
-I plan on camping 1-3 times per month, staying withing a couple hours of home. With an occasional trip 6-8 hours away (1x/year)
-I live in SE TN, so rolling hills are in the area.
- WILL be getting a WD hitch along with sway bars.

Questions/Concerns/Opinions (let me have it )
- I "think" I'm ok as far as the weight of the trailer, but concerned about the hitch weight ( espescially once propane tank, battery, bed of truck filled ) Will I be comfortable once WD hitch installed?

Thanks guys, I hope your help lets my brain stop spinning!

[youroo]

Welcome,It seems like your OK,BUT,to be SURE,weight all the things you read about,after you Load and ready to go (Down the Road). We can all Guess only you will know the numbers. Also not just you but several Members say,(I am not going very Far)? They only have to pull out on a Roadway with a (Bad Setup) and that is (To Far)! Youroo!!

[sdalton]

Good point...

[Ford Idaho]

What have you done to improve the braking ability of your Toy?

Rear suspension mods are great but they are only part of the Img.

What the rig weighs loaded and ready to roll should be foremost.

[sdalton]

The truck comes with e-braking wired, I just need to pick up a good controller... do you find that adequate?

Seems total weight is the factor.. So how do I decide if the TT is ok BEFORE purchasing ? Can I say as a general rule 1000 lbs gear (no toys)? And as far a hitch weight, can i add 180 lbs for 1 full propane tank a battery and the WD hitch?

[ependydad]

I plugged your numbers into my Pin Weight From Dry Weights calculator.

It showed me that this camper has a designed-in tongue weight of 14%. If you were to fully load the camper to it's GVWR, you're looking at a tongue weight of (685 lbs.). That percentage could increase somewhat once propane, battery and stuff in the front storage compartment are added. Different world, but it's not unusual for fifth wheels with the large front basements to increase 3-4%. But, the calculator and numbers give you a ballpark.

What's your available payload on the truck and what's left over after you add passengers, hitch and stuff in the truck bed?

[ependydad]

Originally Posted by sdalton

Seems total weight is the factor.. So how do I decide if the TT is ok BEFORE purchasing ? Can I say as a general rule 1000 lbs gear (no toys)? And as far a hitch weight, can i add 180 lbs for 1 full propane tank a battery and the WD hitch?

Usually you exceed the truck's payload (GVWR) long before exceeding the gross combined weight. The GVWR of the *truck* carries the weight of the truck, anything in or on the truck (passengers, travel comforts, anything in the truck bed, the hitch and most of the tongue weight).

It's is often quoted here on the forum that the average RV'r adds 500-1,500 pounds to their camper's dry weight. With your camper having a cargo carrying capacity of 1,133 pounds, I think adding 800-1,000 pounds to its dry weight is a safe assumption.

[bikendan]

the actual loaded hitch weight will be at or over the 650lbs. max of the Taco.
and you might be out of payload for the truck, too.

these are the two biggest worries you have.

[PSUFan1]

Won't the WD hitch help his maximum hitch weight limit? Most hitch's come with two figures with and without a WD hitch.

You can see my setup, My V8 Envoy pulls my 23LB well.

[sdalton]

epyndydad: Imressive calculator you have there, and thanks for the info! So if my fully loaded tongue weight is 685 (per your estimate) plus 150 lbs for propane and battery that take the tongue weight to 800 lbs.

-The payload for my truck is 1280, all passengers weigh in at 380, gas is 128. This leaves 772 for the payload.

and what do I do with the information DisDad01 and Bikendan provided? I to thought

"Won't the WD hitch help his maximum hitch weight limit?"

Thanks Guys! I'm starting to think I'm reaching the maximum with this TT.

[ependydad]

Originally Posted by sdalton

epyndydad: Imressive calculator you have there, and thanks for the info! So if my fully loaded tongue weight is 685 (per your estimate) plus 150 lbs for propane and battery that take the tongue weight to 800 lbs.

Actually, the 685 would include the 150 lbs. for propane and battery since that is part of the camper's total weight. The tongue weight is 14% as designed. I came to that by taking the Dry Hitch Weight (527 lbs.) divided by the Unloaded Vehicle Weight (3,756 lbs.).

The propane and battery get added to that unloaded vehicle weight, as well as any options that were added to the factory order by the dealer and anything that you put into the camper (cooking gear, clothes, linens, etc.). You have a Cargo Carrying Capacity of 1,133 lbs.

If you take the dry weight of the camper (3,756 lbs.) and add all 1,133 lbs. of "stuff" into/on the camper (including propane + batteries) - you can get a ballpark tongue weight figure of 14%. Now, because the propane and batteries are at the front and you also have a storage hatch up there, you may find that the tongue weight percentage increases to 15%. If that's the case, you're looking at a tongue weight of 733 lbs. (15% times 3756 + 1133).

The problem is, you have to make a best guess with this. In my estimate, your tongue weight will likely be anywhere from 650-750 pounds.

Originally Posted by sdalton

-The payload for my truck is 1280, all passengers weigh in at 380, gas is 128. This leaves 772 for the payload.

If you're referring to the Tire & Loading Information sticker, that already assumes full fluids (e.g. a full fuel tank) in the truck. Don't forget that you also have the weight of the WDH hitch (though, it usually is fairly awash as the hitch transfers some weight back to the camper, but the weight of the hitch itself makes up for most of the shift). Also don't forget that anything you might have added onto the truck (a truck topper, bed cover, nerf bars, boombastic speaker system, etc.) comes off of that payload number. Again with my fancy calculators, see if this one helps:
Towing Calculator by working backwards based on doorjamb sticker

[bikendan]

you have to add the WDH's weight and anything in the truck bed, into the payload amount.

[sdalton]

Originally Posted by ependydad

If you take the dry weight of the camper (3,756 lbs.) and add all 1,133 lbs. of "stuff" into/on the camper (including propane + batteries) - you can get a ballpark tongue weight figure of 14%. Now, because the propane and batteries are at the front and you also have a storage hatch up there, you may find that the tongue weight percentage increases to 15%. If that's the case, you're looking at a tongue weight of 733 lbs. (15% times 3756 + 1133).

I would prefer to error on the side of heavy.. worst case senerio. Lets say tongue weight of 733 lbs. Is this dirrectionaly proportial to the trucks tongue limit of 650? Do I simply say "nope, 733 lbs excedes the 650 limit"? Or does the the WD hitch allow me to play with that number?

I guess the question is ..
Can I excede my vehicle tongue weight if I use a weight distribution hitch ( assuming I dont excede the payload limit)

Again.. nice calculator, need to make that thing an APP!

[sdalton]

Found this on a Toyota site, which only furthers confuses me. I understand that I can not exceede the GVWR (aswell as front and rear GAWR), and I understand what makes up the GVWR. Also I understand I have a limit to the weight applied to the tongue of the TV, and what the weight is comprised of. The water gets muddy when I start thinking about how the WD hitch distributes / applies the weight to the tongue and TV.

"...the WD hitch doesn't help reduce the tongue weight, it just helps to redistribute the tongue weight more evenly between the front and rear axles on the tow vehicle. It would still place the full tongue weight on the truck as "payload."

By moving weight behind the axle on the camper, that reduces the tongue weight load. Then, when using the WD hitch, it is redistributing a lower amount of weight between the two axles on the tow vehicle. "

Is there a mathmatical formula that is used to calculate how the WD distributes the tongue weight? I want to know if I am exceeding my 650 limit.

Sorry for blowing up the thread, ....

[ependydad]

Usually hitches have 2 markings etched on them - one where it's just a standard setup and another where a WDH hitch is used. See this example pulled from the Googles:



Thanks for the kind words. Making it an app is a future plan- it's already nicely formatted for small screens; just need to get the app side of the house written.

[thebrakeman]

That TW (original post) looks high to me, compared to the 3700 lbs dry weight.
Are you sure that TW isn't the max/limit?