Mini lite Tongue weight with Murphy bed down or up

rschoono289 · 03-24-2012, 09:10 PM

Has anyone weighed their TT with the Murphy bed in stored mode vs down?

We have a mini lite ETC181 which has the integrated Murphy bed and dinette. We usually travel with the bed stored vertically which should place more weight on the tongue. Our tongue weight is 457lbs

pg_rider · 03-26-2012, 12:52 PM

Funny -- I've wondered about this myself. Physics says the tongue weight will change with the bed down vs. up, but in reality the bed is so light I don't think it makes much difference at all. Do you have a good bathroom scale? Take it outside and measure it both ways!

rschoono289 · 03-26-2012, 04:36 PM

thanks for responding
-- this issue got my interest after my TT was returned from the factory after mods to my Murphy bed. The bed was down. Tend to agree that the weight shouldnt be much more in vertical position.

capucine · 03-26-2012, 04:42 PM

457 lbs is quite heavy. When I was shopping for a new minilite all the trailers with the murphy bed in the front were very heavy for the size of these trailer. We opted for a mini lite 1809s which has a pull out and a tonge weight that cannot be beaten by any trailers on the market. Only 230 lbs. With this weight it is almost the same weight than the european trailers.

pg_rider · 03-26-2012, 04:48 PM

Good point capucine -- the tongue weight on my 2306 (not sure about other MiniLites) seems very low compared to the weight of the trailer. In fact, maybe too low if you go by the rule of thumb that you want a minimum of 10% of the trailer weight on the tongue.

rschoono289, how are you getting such a high tongue weight? Is most of your equipment (pump, heater, etc) in front of the trailer axle?

rschoono289 · 03-26-2012, 06:07 PM

The tongue weight is calculated from a CAT scale last year with E2 WDH enabled
TV front axle = 2840
TV rear axle = 2365
TT axle = 2880 Note: UVW was 2668
Combined weight TV+TT=8880
TV fully loaded with full fuel, 2 adults,scooter,camping equip and E2 WDH = 5542
Calculation: TT weight = TV+TT(8880)-TV(loaded) (5542) = 3338
tongue weight = TT weight - TT axle = 3338 - 2880 = 458
The TT had 1/4 tank of FW,Empty GW and BW
I didnt have the loaded TV FR/RA weights so not sure my E2 WDH is setup correctly
Any error you can see in my calculation?

rschoono289 · 03-26-2012, 06:18 PM

sorry error in my reply above
TV rear axle = 2365 should have been 3160

punkaccountant · 03-26-2012, 06:58 PM

I'll be picking up my 2306 in a few weeks and want to weigh both the TV and TT but am a little intimidated for some reason.

rschoono289 · 03-26-2012, 08:29 PM

Do a search on this site for "Weigh your RV - Bridgestone" which is good description of what is done at the CAT scales. Usually quite afew CAT sites in urban areas, also search on google. One hint is to bring long stick so you can reach annunciator button as you come onto scales .. its made for semis so quite high up LOL Quite easy to do and scale operators are helpful.

capucine · 03-27-2012, 07:31 AM

rschoono289: Your etc 181 is a single axle trailer if I remember on this model? all single axle trailers are heavier on the tonge than the dual axles trailers. But for your model according to the brochure it reads: dry weight 2611 lbs and for the tonge weight it reads 347 lbs. To bring it up to close to 457 lbs even with the propane tanks filled and the battery it needs a lots of materials for that difference. Your GVWR on this trailer is 3649 lbs.

Triguy · 03-27-2012, 07:47 AM

I don't own your trailer, but I can see how just the battery (50lbs) and two full propane tanks (75lbs) would significantly add to the dry TW.

The OPs 9gl of FW (~75lbs) would also add if the FW tank is in front of the axle.

rschoono289 · 03-27-2012, 09:30 AM

The ETC181 is a single axle TT. My unit UVW is 2668 with GVWR 3704 and dry hitch 347. Battery and two full 20lb tanks add 77lbs. Water: 77 (9gal) (347+77+77)=501
Weight adds up real fast even on a single axle trailer.
The CAT reading of 2880 must also include some weight transferred by E2 WDH back to TT axle. I should have went over the scales a second time with the WDH bars removed to get true TT axle weight. Next time!
Original question based on ways to reduce tongue wt as my truck is close to GVWR even on this small trailer. btw, a mini lite 2304 has dry hitch of 551 so Murphy bed with sofa or a dinnete gets heavy very fast.

pg_rider · 03-27-2012, 09:43 AM

Roy, did you have to pay for two separate weight measurements or did they roll it into one? When I stopped by a CAT scale to get some info they told me it was $9 per weigh, and I believe I need three weighings (truck alone, truck/camper with no bars, truck/camper with bars attached).

rschoono289 · 03-27-2012, 10:34 AM

Unfortunately I didnt go back on the scales. In Canada it cost approx $12 for first weight but not sure how much lower on 2nd time. It is lower as you need to give them a code from your first weigh in. btw, I like your 2306. Do you have Murphy bed option?

pg_rider · 03-27-2012, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rschoono289

Unfortunately I didnt go back on the scales. In Canada it cost approx $12 for first weight but not sure how much lower on 2nd time. It is lower as you need to give them a code from your first weigh in. btw, I like your 2306. Do you have Murphy bed option?

Yes, the Murphy bed was the clincher for us. You should see our friends' reaction when they see how it works and how easy it is -- the light bulbs start going off as they see how much space you can get in a relatively small trailer! It really is like having two floorplans in one...

rschoono289 · 03-27-2012, 11:02 AM

pg_rider

Do you know what the tongue wt is for your TT? We had looked at the 2304 with Murphy bed as it had dinnete and great bathroom shower but dry hitch wt of 551. Likely hitch would be close to 700 loaded for travel! Only two of us so dont need the bunks in 2306 but I believe you can turn the bottom bunk into storage. very nice floorplan.

pg_rider · 03-27-2012, 11:17 AM

I don't know for sure on mine, only what Forest River quotes (318 lb with a 3646 lb dry weight). That 2304 model is crazy -- 551 lb tongue weight for a 3717 lb trailer! How in the world can the two be so different.... the 2304 must have the water pump, heater, and tanks in front of the axles?

MtnGuy · 03-27-2012, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rschoono289

The tongue weight is calculated from a CAT scale last year with E2 WDH enabled
TV front axle = 2840
TV rear axle = 2365
TT axle = 2880 Note: UVW was 2668
Combined weight TV+TT=8880
TV fully loaded with full fuel, 2 adults,scooter,camping equip and E2 WDH = 5542
Calculation: TT weight = TV+TT(8880)-TV(loaded) (5542) = 3338
tongue weight = TT weight - TT axle = 3338 - 2880 = 458
The TT had 1/4 tank of FW,Empty GW and BW
I didnt have the loaded TV FR/RA weights so not sure my E2 WDH is setup correctly
Any error you can see in my calculation?

The most accurate way to measure the tongue weight is go across the scales 2 times. 1 time with the tow vehicle and trailer hooked up, but without the spring bars in place. 1 time with just the tow vehicle with the exact same load as when going across with the combination. The tow vehicle combined axle weights with the trailer hooked up minus the tow vehicle combined axle weights without the trailer will equal the true tongue weight.

A 3rd time going across the scales with the trailer hooked up with the spring bars in place will give you an idea on how the weight is being distributed.

Most CAT scales weigh in 20 lbs. increments. I am not sure how the those 5s, 2s, 8s, etc. are coming up. Makes me kinda wonder about that scale operator.

Make sure each axle is totally on a scale section.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rschoono289

The tongue weight is calculated from a CAT scale last year with E2 WDH enabled
TV front axle = 2840
TV rear axle = 2365
TT axle = 2880 Note: UVW was 2668
Combined weight TV+TT=8880

Adding up the front and rear TV axle plus the TT axle, I come up with 8085 lbs ??

Can you post the weight sheets ???

rschoono289 · 03-27-2012, 01:55 PM

My TV rear axle from CAT was 3160. My typo error earlier. The 3338 comes from weighing the TV at municipal dump (converting from KG) then subtracting from 8880 CAT reading.
Yes, needed to take TT & TV across w/o wdh bars on to get correct weights. The payload of my 2002 Tundra is limiting factor (6036 GVWR). I need to carry DW disability scooter in TV so tongue weight is big issue for me. Next step is larger TV and TT LOL

MtnGuy · 03-27-2012, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rschoono289

My TV rear axle from CAT was 3160. My typo error earlier. The 3338 comes from weighing the TV at municipal dump (converting from KG) then subtracting from 8880 CAT reading.
Yes, needed to take TT & TV across w/o wdh bars on to get correct weights. The payload of my 2002 Tundra is limiting factor (6036 GVWR). I need to carry DW disability scooter in TV so tongue weight is big issue for me. Next step is larger TV and TT LOL

Even if the dump scales are a single platform, you can still get accurate axle weights from that....if it is a reliable scale. I use the local quarry scales as my reference, and it is a single section scale. I/we can give you details on how that would work.

The most important thing is to keep everything constant...especially the tow vehicle through all of the weights. It is important that the same fluid levels, passengers and cargo, and placement of those remain constant throughout the multiple passes across the scale.

Also, you might want to do all of your calculating in kgs. if that is what the scales give you there, then do the final results in lbs. Now I know why you have last digits other than 0s.....I wasn't thinking about a kg. to lb. conversion.

I just looked it up, and I have a CAT scale about 30 miles from me. I have to switch out my WDH head assembly, and might be rechecking my weights there. With all of this advice that I have been giving, I have never been across a CAT scale.....bad boy.

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