minivan, SUV or 1/2 ton for TV

[rce]

I have searched and read a lot of posts but hoping for some personalized recommendations if you have the time. We are first time trailer owners after 40 years of dreaming! Advice so far helpful but hard to decide between very different options.

Purchased our 2009 Surveyor SP-186 last week. 19.5 ft long, double axle, 2743 lbs dry and GVWR is 5235 lbs. Hitch weight is 235 lbs.

I don't own a tow vehicle. TV may also double as 2nd vehicle as we have a nice Nissan Versa for running around.

Minivan I've almost ruled out even though would be within specs (just) loaded. Minivan would be best for day to day, economical.

SUV would pull more but is more costly and friends have advised me to stay away from front wheel drive models. I like SUV's

Finally a Ford F 150 or similar may be a little more affordable and can tow more but not as good for day to day running around town. Never owned a truck so a little unsure.

Really don't expect to upgrade to any larger TT. Used TV is a definite option.

Words of wisdom for this weight & model TT would be greatly appreciated, or anything I may have not considered.

[mikey]

Go as big as you can so that the TV issue is a non starter when you decide to upgrade your TT down the road. Look at Fifth Wheel ST (Safe Towing) Truck and Trailer Weight Safety Report for informative articles that should help in your TV decision process.

Travel safe and enjoy your journeys!

[bikendan]

only one minivan was capable of towing a trailer like yours, the Astro/Safari minivan. had a tow capacity of around 5500lbs.
every other minivan has only a 3500lbs. tow capacity. i think one or two could tow 3800lbs.

a SUV with a tow capacity of around 5000lbs. would be fine. but a truck would be more useful and versatile.

and don't think that a v-6 truck or SUV will get better gas mileage than a v-8.
newer v-8 trucks and SUVs get almost the same mpg as a smaller v-6 truck or SUV.
for example, my Avalanche, with a 5.3 v-8 that can tow 7200lbs., gets almost the same gas mileage as a Tacoma, Frontier or Ridgeline, which can only tow between 5000lbs. and 6000lbs.
and i have room for 6 adults.
i found this out when i was shopping for a new tow vehicle also thought that a v-6 would get much better gas mileage. NOT!

[rce]

[QUOTE=bikendan;229288]

and don't think that a v-6 truck or SUV will get better gas mileage than a v-8.
newer v-8 trucks and SUVs get almost the same mpg as a smaller v-6 truck or SUV."



Interesting. Would that also be the case in day to day driving when not towing?

[Triguy]

I recommend an SUV or pickup and definitely not a minivan.

Since I don't pay too much attention to all the other tow vehicles out there (until I need to buy), I'll stay away from specific recommendations and give you thoughts to help narrow down your choices yourself.

This towing calculator will help you to reverse engineer the ratings you will want in a truck to pull this trailer.

GVWR of 5200lbs means you will want a TV with a towing cap of 6,500 lbs or more to play it safe. That would truly be safest, but you could drop that down if you are light packers, travel short distances and tow only in the flats. Best to keep it above the camper's GVWR, though.

The bane of all SUVs and half-ton pickups (with the exception of the new Ford Ecoboost trucks with max payload), will be the TV's payload. It's important to understand how this number relates to your trailer's tongue weight.

The dry hitch of the SP-186 can be ignored. Since this is a used camper, can you call the previous owner and ask what the hitch weight was for them when loaded? If not, use this calculation: Take the actual or assumed weight of your trailer (fully loaded) and multiply by 10-15% to get the tongue weight (e.g., 5000lbs x 13% = 650lbs). Subtract that TW from the vehicle's payload and what's left is for your family and cargo inside the truck.

Hitch rating, as with payload, can be a limiter in smaller SUVs and pickups. As you can see, a hitch rated for less than 600lbs could be a problem for you if your camper's TW is 650.

There's more, and you are lucky that your camper is so light as this gives you plenty of truck options to choose from. Also, you're to be congratulated for doing your homework first before you buy.

[acadianbob]

I mid-size SUV sounds like what you would prefer and it would do the job. Think about it. What % of the time will you be towing; probably quite low. IF the SUV does the job, it will probably be easier to live with for the 90% of the time it is your daily driver.

[rce]

Originally Posted by Triguy

I recommend an SUV or pickup and definitely not a minivan.

Since I don't pay too much attention to all the other tow vehicles out there (until I need to buy), I'll stay away from specific recommendations and give you thoughts to help narrow down your choices yourself.

This towing calculator will help you to reverse engineer the ratings you will want in a truck to pull this trailer.

GVWR of 5200lbs means you will want a TV with a towing cap of 6,500 lbs or more to play it safe. That would truly be safest, but you could drop that down if you are light packers, travel short distances and tow only in the flats. Best to keep it above the camper's GVWR, though.

The bane of all SUVs and half-ton pickups (with the exception of the new Ford Ecoboost trucks with max payload), will be the TV's payload. It's important to understand how this number relates to your trailer's tongue weight.

The dry hitch of the SP-186 can be ignored. Since this is a used camper, can you call the previous owner and ask what the hitch weight was for them when loaded? If not, use this calculation: Take the actual or assumed weight of your trailer (fully loaded) and multiply by 10-15% to get the tongue weight (e.g., 5000lbs x 13% = 650lbs). Subtract that TW from the vehicle's payload and what's left is for your family and cargo inside the truck.

Hitch rating, as with payload, can be a limiter in smaller SUVs and pickups. As you can see, a hitch rated for less than 600lbs could be a problem for you if your camper's TW is 650.

There's more, and you are lucky that your camper is so light as this gives you plenty of truck options to choose from. Also, you're to be congratulated for doing your homework first before you buy.

This is very helpful and has given me more to consider. I expect or should I say we intend to be light campers mostly towing on the prairies except for maybe a couple of trips through the Rockies.

Also just found a sticker this afternoon buried in a cupboard which suggests the from dealer dry weight had been just under 3000 lb, not 2700 as I thought from online specs.

Previous owner by the way had no clue what the trailer actually weighed ever! Very nice fellow though.

[rce]

Originally Posted by acadianbob

I mid-size SUV sounds like what you would prefer and it would do the job. Think about it. What % of the time will you be towing; probably quite low. IF the SUV does the job, it will probably be easier to live with for the 90% of the time it is your daily driver.

Quite right I would prefer a mid size SUV. We might even then be able to get down to a one car family.

However DW is quite clear as she should be that we must have a capable TV even if it is only used occasionally as a TV.

(Quite convinced a minivan, even the Grand Caravan rated at 3800 lbs would be perhaps foolish. Originally had been considering an R-Pod 151 which came in just under 2000 lbs but that really was small!) Love the Surveyor even though it hasn't left the driveway.

[MtnGuy]

Originally Posted by rce

Interesting. Would that also be the case in day to day driving when not towing?

A V-6 will typically give better fuel mileage unloaded. But using a V-6 to pull the weight of a camper, plus the wind resistance, it is working too hard, causing it to really go through the fuel. A V-8 vehicle pulling a camper is not being maxed out.....it is just sitting there using only a part of the available power. So typically, a V-8 will give you better fuel mileage under load, and a V-6 will typically give you better fuel mileage with no trailer attached.

[Triguy]

Originally Posted by rce

This is very helpful and has given me more to consider. I expect or should I say we intend to be light campers mostly towing on the prairies except for maybe a couple of trips through the Rockies.

Also just found a sticker this afternoon buried in a cupboard which suggests the from dealer dry weight had been just under 3000 lb, not 2700 as I thought from online specs.

Previous owner by the way had no clue what the trailer actually weighed ever! Very nice fellow though.

That yellow sticker is required by law now-a-days. This should show you the weight of the trailer as it was at the time it left the factory. That extra 300lbs would include the manufacturer options. This is not the weight today, I'd venture. Any dealer options and the former owners modifications will increase that number, which is why the trailer should eventually be weighed by you at a local scale.

So, let's say the trailer "dry" weighs ~3000lbs. Add battery, propane, a little water, cargo, food, and a bit to be safe. That will give you an even better estimate of your trailer's weight.

[bikendan]

[QUOTE=rce;229307]

Originally Posted by bikendan

and don't think that a v-6 truck or SUV will get better gas mileage than a v-8.
newer v-8 trucks and SUVs get almost the same mpg as a smaller v-6 truck or SUV."

Interesting. Would that also be the case in day to day driving when not towing?

yes, i mean highway/town driving. towing mileage will vary little but the v-6 will work harder and use slightly more fuel.

without quoting numbers, compare the mileages between them. the newer v-8 engines that have the v-4 feature, can get highway mileage almost the same as the v-6 engines. this is on trucks/SUVs, not passenger cars.
for example, the Tahoe has an EPA highway mileage of 21mpg.

[2Susan]

[QUOTE=rce;229307]

Originally Posted by bikendan

and don't think that a v-6 truck or SUV will get better gas mileage than a v-8.
newer v-8 trucks and SUVs get almost the same mpg as a smaller v-6 truck or SUV."
Interesting. Would that also be the case in day to day driving when not towing?

I don't know about every situation, but our 3/4 ton truck gets the same mileage empty towing nothing as when full and towing a heavy trailer. I suspect mileage has more to do with driving style (leadfoot) so long as the truck isn't struggling under the load.

[rce]

Thanks for help to date with my TV struggles.

Looked at a new Nissan Frontier and Titan today. Think the Frontier might be a possible compromise to consider. Tows 6300 lbs, has a wheel base 126 inches for my 19 foot TT. Feels a bit like an SUV size wise but could satisfactorily tow my Surveyor 186 at 3000 lbs dry (maybe 4000 lightly loaded). Have read a couple of threads re Frontier towing larger TT (not recommended). But given towing capacity of 6300 it should pull my 19 foot TT OK? Gas mileage should be better for day to day use and purchase price of course is lower.

Any thoughts, feedback is greatly appreciated.

[LadyWindrider]

Probably no yellow sticker since the original post states "Purchased our 2009 Surveyor SP-186 last week." He found the empty weight in a cabinet, which is not correct. Propane and battery, 100 pounds, awning, another 75 or more. Spare tire??? And also as stated, what has the precious owner done??

Tow with a truck, with a V8 engine, especially if headed for the Rockies. Anything else while it might do it, will be hard on it. V8's usually have a better trans, and easier to find one with a towing package if shopping for used. They don't really burn that much more gas when not towing than a V6. If your budget is that tight, sounds like you can't afford campground fees, so you will also need to add the weight of fresh water to carry while "dry" camping.

[stevem]

we used our ford windstar last year for a 6000 km trip towing a 2400 lb(dry) 21ft tt.

much lighter than what you are considering

i wouldnt want to pull anymore than that with a minivan. handling was fine, breaking was perfect but accelerating on a highway on ramp was slow, uphills were slow but i kept engine speed below 3000 rpm and let the van do what it could without a lot of shifting gears. i also shifted manually to keep engine speed within 3000rpm on long uphills

a couple of long upgrades were at 70 kph(stay with the semi's)

any heavier a trailer? no way

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by rce

Thanks for help to date with my TV struggles.

Think the Frontier might be a possible compromise to consider. Gas mileage should be better for day to day use

o.k., not sure if you really read my post about comparing mpg between the v-6 trucks and v-8 trucks. here's just comparing the Frontier to the Chevy:

Frontier crewcab v-6:
4x2- 15/20
4x4- 14/19

Chevy Silverado crewcab v-8
4x2- 15/21
4x4- 15/21

the Chevy with a comparable tow package, can tow 9600lbs. and can seat 6 adults.

i found this out back in 2006. there's NO advantage of buying a v-6 truck/SUV over a newer v-8 truck/SUV, if you're comparing gas mileage.
plus you get way more tow capacity and interior room and stabler tow vehicle.

the Chevy is actually rated for more highway mileage than the smaller, lighter Frontier.
you'll find similar results with other of the newer v-8 truck brands. in fact, the Dodge Ram with the Hemi, is rated for the same highway mileage as the Frontier.
the Titan is a poor choice to compare to the Frontier. it gets the worst gas mileage of any v-8 truck. Nissan nor Toyota have kept up with the big 3 in v-8 technology when it comes to gas mileage.
a good friend has a Titan and constantly complains about his gas mileage.

i guess there's one advantage to the Frontier, it can fit in a tighter parking space.

[TF-Kevin]

I have a 19ft hybrid and i pulled it with a ford explorer sport trac, v-6 , it pulled the trailer no problem but the rev's were up around 4000 when going up hills, plus the truck was narrow and hard to see what was behind me.. i have bought a ford f 150 v-8 5.4 litre and pulls the camper no problem and crusing at 60 only revs at 2200 and that is with the over drive off, i am glad i got the bigger truck and i use it every day and i get 17 litres to a 100 kms

[rce]

Originally Posted by bikendan

o.k., not sure if you really read my post about comparing mpg between the v-6 trucks and v-8 trucks. here's just comparing the Frontier to the Chevy:

Frontier crewcab v-6:
4x2- 15/20
4x4- 14/19

Chevy Silverado crewcab v-8
4x2- 15/21
4x4- 15/21

the Chevy with a comparable tow package, can tow 9600lbs. and can seat 6 adults.

i found this out back in 2006. there's NO advantage of buying a v-6 truck/SUV over a newer v-8 truck/SUV, if you're comparing gas mileage.
plus you get way more tow capacity and interior room and stabler tow vehicle.

the Chevy is actually rated for more highway mileage than the smaller, lighter Frontier.
you'll find similar results with other of the newer v-8 truck brands. in fact, the Dodge Ram with the Hemi, is rated for the same highway mileage as the Frontier.
the Titan is a poor choice to compare to the Frontier. it gets the worst gas mileage of any v-8 truck. Nissan nor Toyota have kept up with the big 3 in v-8 technology when it comes to gas mileage.
a good friend has a Titan and constantly complains about his gas mileage.

i guess there's one advantage to the Frontier, it can fit in a tighter parking space.

Yes I did read your post and it was enlightening. I was in fact comparing the Frontier to the Titan mileage and the Frontier mileage specs are 10% better. Quite right, not really a significant difference. I think I like the smaller "form" of the Frontier as an around town vehicle having never owned a truck before. Also there is a price differential to get those nice higher tow #'s in a 1/2 ton.

I will mention again we are quite serious about travelling light (is there a separate sub forum for that?). Intend to replace 2 propane 30lb tanks with one 20lb propane tank if feasible, drive with empty holding tanks except when crossing the prairies. We have back packed with total gear under 75 lbs for 2 people so can't imagine a lot of cargo to carry in our TT. All our gear is ultralight. We just are occassional minimalists and hence my interest in whether the Frontier or similar could be adequate.

Anyway this all is very helpful. I am a way more educated now and will take some time to consider all factors. Also will keep eyes open for a used TV and feel I'm in a better position to make a quick decision if I see something good.

Thanks again.

[whj77372]

Having read all of the above posts, you would be better served with a
1/2 ton, pickup, Chev, Ford or Dodge. You will not be near the limits for towing
and the MPG will be better all around. I am from Texas were all real men drive pickups! just kiddin

2011 F250 CC diesel longbed SRW rear drive
2012 V-Cross 275 5er

[transamz9]

What year Frontier did you look at? Did you drive it? The reason I ask is that we bought an '07 Frontier 2 wheel drive crew cab one time to make it easier for my wife to park than our quad cab short bed Ram. We test drove it and it was a really nice small truck. First trip to Wal-mart and trying to pull into a spot , it came badly clear that it would not turn as sharp as our big truck. Just make sure you drive a few different trucks and sizes. Might want to test drive a few mid-sized SUV's. I think our Jeep Grand Cherokee had a 7'000# tow rating. There are others that I'm sure are capable.