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Old 06-13-2014, 04:16 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by john777 View Post
If I use the Cayenne I will not be using a WDH. Your post is inaccuarte and extremely unhelpful. I'm not looking for a thumbs up from anyone. I'm looking for accurate infromation which will help me make an informed decision. I do not plan on disappearing as I plan on buying this trailer, wether I'm pulling it with the Cayenne or another vehicle. However, I do want to know what this car can do (which I only paid $29,000 for last year with a full warranty) (a result of researching and utilizing forums)

On the contrary, I woke up this morning with my family in Florida and I am now in SF CA. To be honest i spent way too much time on this, this week and it detracted me from my family vacation. However, I'm not going to put my family in jeopardy, or anyone else on the road for that matter so I'm spending the necessary time and trying not to act like a know it all or a jerk.

You see I'm very familiar with limits. I live my life obeying limits and protecting my passengers when it comes to limits. When I fly my 747-400 from SFO to Sydney, that plane is at 875,000 lbs. You know what happens if the plane is at 875,200 lbs? We sit at the hold short and goose the throttles up to burn that extra 200#'s before taking the runway. The reason is, I'm responsible for 400 passengers lives and when the airplane holds 300,000 lbs of fuel, things can get real ugly, real quick, if something goes wrong at that weight. Let me help you with the math. The jet is approx 1/3 fuel. The fuel on that airplane weights more than the 757-200 fully loaded that I rode on today from RSW-ATL.

If you ever want to sit around and have a scotch and a stogie, i could tell you all about how to load an F/A-18 to the gills with A/A A/G and a full load of 20mm cannon ammo and take off hit a target and make it home safely with 7 other F/A-18's doing the same thing.

I could do the same thing if you ever wanted to talk F-16's too.

And if you ever wanted to know which of the two i thought was better than the other, I could have a long conversation about 1 circle, 2 circle, angle of attack, dive angles, weaponry, counter measures, one engine vs two engines. Which one was a pig fully loaded, which one turned better.

And if that wasn;t enough.

We could sit around I could tell you stories about how to simulate a MIG-21 while flying an F-5, which was pretty damn fun.

But I could not sit around and tell you about all the TT towing i have done with my Cayenne, because i haven;t done it. Thats why I'm here now looking for help and comments. You are not sitting in my room and you do not know what I'm going to do. So stop spouting off nonsense.

I can tell you this. I'm not leaving this forum. And I have not made a decision on what to tow that trailer I'm going to buy, with, either.

You see I've gotten a ton of good info over many years from different forums on many different things, watches, cars, camping, RVing. But I don;t think I've seen a post as unhelpful as yours. I'm sure you can do better on something, maybe not this topic.

I will most likely go back and delete this post so my wife can log on and find out about cool camping sites and what to do with our one year old while towing and good things like that, so do me a favor and don't respond to me via quote on this one. Got it PAPPCAM?

Semper Fidelis...
You come across as fairly intelligent, so im sure you will be fine....and figure it all with or WITHOUT our help!..lol

That's why I love the internet/forums....!! For the wise man there is an answer for everything! !....the INTELLIGENT man can weed through and find the correct answer...opinion and FACT are not always one in the same... (despite what many on the internet think)

And then shortly there after someone to argue as incorrect what you KNOW for fact...gotta love it!!

Again...I didnt like towing with my mid size performance suv(within spec properly equipped)...but I was comparing it to my 3/4 ton truck. ..so MY opinion and experience lie there...but I dont own a cayenne either..

In any case, glad your here and good luck. ..hopefully one day I can chime in with FACTS and be more help...haha..

In the end be safe and have fun!..


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Old 06-13-2014, 06:20 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john777 View Post
If I use the Cayenne I will not be using a WDH. Your post is inaccuarte and extremely unhelpful. I'm not looking for a thumbs up from anyone. I'm looking for accurate infromation which will help me make an informed decision. I do not plan on disappearing as I plan on buying this trailer, wether I'm pulling it with the Cayenne or another vehicle. However, I do want to know what this car can do (which I only paid $29,000 for last year with a full warranty) (a result of researching and utilizing forums)

On the contrary, I woke up this morning with my family in Florida and I am now in SF CA. To be honest i spent way too much time on this, this week and it detracted me from my family vacation. However, I'm not going to put my family in jeopardy, or anyone else on the road for that matter so I'm spending the necessary time and trying not to act like a know it all or a jerk.

........
No need to get so defensive. I actually do see people come to this and other RV related forums to look for a "yes", get a "no" and disappear although I apparently misjudged you and I apologize if I offended you. It's good that you're still looking for a way to do things safely.

I still think you need a WDH towing something that big with anything less than a 3/4 ton. Air bags simply lift the back end and do not transfer any weight to the front. Being light up front makes for dicey steering and handling when towing.
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Old 06-14-2014, 05:07 AM   #73
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First I want to know how you got a Cayenne for $29K! I'll give you a handsome finders fee if you get me one, too.
Second, I'd love to hear some of your stories! I'm six minutes from ICN, so if you ever have a layover in S. Korea, let me know.
Third, I can't wait to see pics of your rig.
And fourth, you have done your homework, but I am strongly in favor of using a WDH. My front wheels becoming almost completely unloaded over a bump today confirmed my need for one, and I have half the tongue weight or less.

Note: Did anyone else notice the WDHs on the Porsches (in the video) that were supplied by Porsche? They must be ok. I suspect Andy was involved.

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Old 06-14-2014, 10:01 AM   #74
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Thanks, I accept all input good or bad, but not comments which are not productive!
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Old 06-14-2014, 10:28 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by pappcam View Post
No need to get so defensive. I actually do see people come to this and other RV related forums to look for a "yes", get a "no" and disappear although I apparently misjudged you and I apologize if I offended you. It's good that you're still looking for a way to do things safely.

I still think you need a WDH towing something that big with anything less than a 3/4 ton. Air bags simply lift the back end and do not transfer any weight to the front. Being light up front makes for dicey steering and handling when towing.
No problem, thanks for the response. Like one of the other guys said, this gets very stressful and time consuming. All input is taken seriously, but the peanut gallery shots tick me off. I'm sure you and I will get along in the future on many topics.

I am going to keep the options open here on the WDH, I'm waiting to hear back from Can Am. I just do not want to do something that will compromise all the technology, porsche stability management performace stuff that that cost so much money and compensates for many of the things that a F250 could never compete with.

What would really suck is if I lisented to people who did not understand the capabilities of the Porsche product and I was peer presssured into doing the wrong thing and ended up in a ditch because I blatently broke the rules of the TV.
(BTW I have NOT seen anything in the Manual about NOT using a WDH, but many other owners have given me that input as well as the Service Manager at Camping World who has to send me on my merry way)

I stopped by the Porsche dealer yesterday and he was telling about a customer who pulls two horses to Mexico each year and back and I've got to think those animals and trailer weigh a ton (no pun intended) unless the owner specializes in shetland ponies. But I doubt it and its probably a big pair of polo horses or jumping horses of some sort. (someone with way more money and free time than I have)

There are other people on this forum who are using less capable TV's pulling longer TT's than my proposed combo (both using WDH's). They seem to be having no issues with what they are doing and have been doing it for sometime.

Let me keep moving on this.
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Old 06-14-2014, 10:31 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by BigBaron View Post
First I want to know how you got a Cayenne for $29K! I'll give you a handsome finders fee if you get me one, too.
Second, I'd love to hear some of your stories! I'm six minutes from ICN, so if you ever have a layover in S. Korea, let me know.
Third, I can't wait to see pics of your rig.
And fourth, you have done your homework, but I am strongly in favor of using a WDH. My front wheels becoming almost completely unloaded over a bump today confirmed my need for one, and I have half the tongue weight or less.

Note: Did anyone else notice the WDHs on the Porsches (in the video) that were supplied by Porsche? They must be ok. I suspect Andy was involved.

Thank you for serving in the Marines.
We ALL salute you!
Dealer in OH sold me that TV. What a deal...
The Cayennes in that video were non turbo models and i doubt they have the air suspension system.
What is your TV you are using with that bump you went over?
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Old 06-14-2014, 11:09 AM   #77
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From another forum, from Andy @ Can Am

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Originally Posted by DDC View Post
Glad to hear you got in contact with CA-AM John I know they do these types of set-ups for people all over North America, I was lucky enough to have them as my dealer and only fifteen minutes from home.
Hi Graham

Go ahead and post this if you like.

We had a set up several Touareg's and Cayennes which share the platform. It is a vehicle I really like for towing, very stable and comfortable one of the few SUV's I would personally own. Now that they have the 3.0 Litre diesel we are doing a lot more of them. Most of our customers are towing 26 - 34' low profile light trailers with torsion axles or Airstreams in the same size range. Be careful of the trailer you choose measure the height of the floor off the ground it should be around 20", it should have torsion axles radial tires and be as aero as possible. There are some really bad towing trailers available. Length and weight are not the primary considerations.

With larger trailers weight distribution should absolutely be used! Air suspension may keep the vehicle level but it does not transfer weight to the front wheels which is necessary to keep from overloading the rear axle but more importantly for handling stability and safety. In Europe there are not equalizing hitches or electric brakes. They were both banned there 40 years ago to keep out American trailers. This means that the German VW engineers do not understand equalizing hitch systems so it is much easier for them to say don't use one than to try and understand them and all the various factors involved in them. In their defence when I see the lack of understanding and professionalism in the hitch industry I can't blame them for not wanting to be involved.

We connected an Airstream to a Touareg with 1000 lbs of hitch weight using a 1000 Pound Eaz-Lift hitch system and we were not able to flex the receiver at all the receiver is very solid but my concern is the steel may be brittle and prone to fatiguing over time. 40 years ago the conventional wisdom was you made a hitch using mild steel and enough of it to make it solid that the higher strength steels would be more likely to fatigue over time. This is something we see regularly on many other hitches.

What we do then is we strengthen the VW hitch by adding a centre bar to it that reaches up under the vehicle and fastens between the rear wheels. The way you get strength from a hitch is with distance to spread the leverage over. This may not be necessary but I don't want one of my customers to be the one to find out that it is. I don't have a picture of a Touareg reinforcement but there is a picture of one similar attached.

We use friction sway controls all the time just you need one of the better quality ones and you need to keep it dry so it does not rust then they stay quiet. It is fine to tow in the rain just dry off the bar before you store it. With thousands installed I have never seen a frame damaged. the little ball would break off first. We install two on trailers over 25' actual overall length. The Pro Pride hitch works very well and does all that the advertizing says it does. It is not absolutely necessary on the Touareg as it is a very stable tow vehicle if it is connected to a stable trailer but no matter what the combination is it still the safest set up. I would not recommend the Equal-i-zer brand hitch on one because the torsion bars have too little travel when you go through dips etc. We use Eaz-Lift 1000 lb. hitches on most of the ones we set up because I like their torsion bars, they wear less and they allow the closest ball to bumper measurements.

If you cannot find someone local to strengthen the hitch receiver we can make it up here and ship it to you for installation there.

I hope this helps you out.
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Old 06-14-2014, 03:44 PM   #78
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John in regards to your horse question... my old steel 2 horse trailer (thoroughbred sized) had a 5000 lb gvwr. The old steel trailers are heavier than the newer lightweight trailers. Horse trailers also run a lower tongue weight as most of the weight sits toward the rear of the trailer. Just ask my old horse you used to literally sit on the butt bar! I could feel the difference in that trailer every time he did it. I towed that trailer with a ford ranger and a dodge Durango. And yes I was probably over my limits in both. I handled them fine but saw a huge improvement in handling when I moved up to an armada towing the same trailer.
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Old 06-14-2014, 07:29 PM   #79
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From a Porsche Forum

CTT = Cayenne Twin Turbo

"I've had several 1 ton and HD3/4 ton trucks. I've towed the exact same trailer with the exact same load with both the trucks and my CTT. The CTT is a better two rig!!

If you want to quote "physics" then let's look at them

The Cayenne was designed to handle like a sports car! Low center of gravity with much of the drivetrain mounted barely above the wheel center line! A suspension designed to be as stable as possible and have traction at the limits!

These all sound like good things when towing! Length doesn't create stability, good suspension and low center of gravity does! Most pickups have the drivetrain mounted far above the axles and a suspension from the wooden wagon days!


Let's talk about sway. The most stable towing platform is to mount the hitch point directly over the rear axle. Doing this totally eliminates the "lever arm" upon which sway is amplified. This is the distance from the rear axle to the hitch location. On most large pickups this length is 3-4 feet!! On the CTT its about 1.5-2 feet. So sway has less effect on a CTT than on a pickup running a normal rear mounted hitch.

Brakes! The Cayenne was designed to stop in the same distance as a 911 of the same era. Big brakes, lots of force, lots of cooling. Trailer brakes help, but I can tell your from hauling a 7700lb trailer behind my Dodge 2500 and the CTT with the same trailer brake controller installed on each. The Cayenne stops MUCH MUCH BETTER!!

I'd rather tow with my CTT any day for safety and stability over my HD trucks!

Here is a fun video. Watch the CTT when the trailer near leaves the ground and rolls over. It's almost totally unaffected. "

Airstream Performance - YouTube
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Old 06-14-2014, 08:16 PM   #80
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"With larger trailers weight distribution should absolutely be used! Air suspension may keep the vehicle level but it does not transfer weight to the front wheels which is necessary to keep from overloading the rear axle but more importantly for handling stability and safety. In Europe there are not equalizing hitches or electric brakes. They were both banned there 40 years ago to keep out American trailers."

I have seen this, too. I presume this is directly from Andy at CanAm?

I have seen his modified hitch install on a Touareg-it is EXACTLY the way I would design it. It is also the example I'm using for our next car in Korea.

The car I had a "thrill ride" with yesterday is a diesel Hyundai H1. I have air shocks in the back to pick up the sag. The clearances are too small to install air springs. You can still see the front is lifted a bit. It's not so bad when the van is full, though.

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It is not a small or light van. My tongue is about 260 lbs. and a nice set of whoops in the road after a bridge (from bad soil compaction, I'm sure) really scared the %$#@ out of me. The front tires were almost, if not completely unloaded. Fun on a GS1100, but not fun at 115 KPH pulling a 3,000 lb. trailer.
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