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09-25-2014, 04:44 AM
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#21
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 138
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Seems more like an infomercial then a review...
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09-25-2014, 05:38 AM
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#22
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 7,916
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Man...you guys are tough.
I have no WDH...don't need one.
I think he did a wonderful job...JS
Sent from my iPhone using Forest River Forums
__________________
2017 Puma 297RLSS
2005 Ram 2500 4X4 diesel SMOKER!!
I love puns, irony and tasteless jokes...
born in Texas.... live in Arkansas
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09-25-2014, 06:02 AM
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#23
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(Dry Huunday)
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eastern North Carolina
Posts: 2,298
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Good job, thanks!
__________________
Beau & Sue
FurKid Express
2015 Coachmen Catalina 303RLS
2016 Chevy Silverado LT 2500HD Duramax
The more people I meet, the more I like my dogs!
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09-25-2014, 06:39 AM
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#24
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Incheon, S. Korea
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Incheon, South Korea
Posts: 1,142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madmaxmutt
You are making my point for me
I did exactly 730 days in that country. We all know there are several spellings for words over there In fact, my last trip they had changed the name of half the towns there. Pusan is now Busan. Tongduchon is now Dongduchon or something like that. I gave up caring
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Sounds more like a prison sentence! Were you in Casey or some other hell hole?
I was being sarcastic... I own an "Engrish" school here.
So you were here when they changed all the signs? They just changed all the street addresses, too. This place is full of geniuses. (more sarcasm)
__________________
Me, Julie, Lil' Barry, Faith, and OSD Fang
2012 Coachmen Clipper 126 - Don't even have a TV anymore.
I don't know when we'll be able to go camping again...
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09-25-2014, 06:45 AM
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#25
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Incheon, S. Korea
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Incheon, South Korea
Posts: 1,142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poorbuthappy
Seems more like an infomercial then a review...
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Actually, it's the first detailed post about an Anderson WDH system that I've seen anywhere-and I've looked.
MtnGuy - didn't the weights show 100# more on the front axle of the truck, 100# more on the trailer axles, and 200# off the rear axle of the truck?
__________________
Me, Julie, Lil' Barry, Faith, and OSD Fang
2012 Coachmen Clipper 126 - Don't even have a TV anymore.
I don't know when we'll be able to go camping again...
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09-25-2014, 08:40 AM
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#26
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Shenandoah Valley of Virginia
Posts: 9,280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBaron
MtnGuy - didn't the weights show 100# more on the front axle of the truck, 100# more on the trailer axles, and 200# off the rear axle of the truck?
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Baron, I based my comments on photos 1-3 in post #9. Photo 4 was with the chains hooked up, but the OP indicated the chains were not hooked up in photo #3. Hanging a 700 lb. trailer tongue (as indicated in photo 2, axle 2 ?) behind the bumper of the truck will take weight off of the front axle and load up the rear axle, but the total increase in weight should be 700 lbs. (the weight of the tongue). The weight difference is 600 lbs., not 700 lbs. for the truck, and there is also a change in the trailer axle weights between photo #2 (axle 3 ?) and in photo #3 (again, axle 3).
There will be a slight shift of weight from using the tongue jack and coupler, but I wouldn't think that should be over 20 lbs.
Photo 2 indicates a total trailer weight of 4140 lbs. Figuring the 4500 lb. trailer axle weights in photo #3, plus the additional truck weight of 600 lbs. when adding the trailer tongue, the total trailer weight is 5100 lbs. Those 2 figures are probably within the margin of error, since CAT scales weight on 20 lb. increments. But the shift if axle and tongue weights seems excessive.......of course some of that might also be 20 lb. increment round-offs, but surely not the entire difference.
__________________
Chap , DW Joy, and Fur Baby Sango
2017 F350 Lariat CCSB, SRW, 4x4, 6.7 PS
2017 Grand Design Reflection 337RLS
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09-25-2014, 09:13 AM
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#27
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 5,173
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Something seems a little off with measurement #3, so I figure most of it's error is from rounding. If you add up Measurements 1 & 2, (truck and trailer) you get a total of 11520, which is the same total he got in #4. In #3, he's down 40 pounds at only 11480.
By my calculations, with the WDH hooked up, (#4) he’s at:
Front: -100
Rear: +640
Trailer: +160
So, 100 lbs from the front transferred to the trailer, as well as 60 lbs off the tongue.
(If I'm reading all this right.)
__________________
There's no use crying over spilt milk... unless it's on your keyboard.
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09-25-2014, 08:34 PM
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#28
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 125
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MadMaxxMut:
In my earlier post I neglected to explain why I thought your "thread count" is excessive. I think Andersen told me that 5-6 threads was max. I run 4 max on my rig, some times 3 if the TV load is lighter. Iif you over compress the poly bushings there is no more give, and the bounce control will not be effective.
Based on your narrative, I still think you should re-install the bracket on the "long" chain. Also re-check your Initial Setup to make sure that the hitch ball is 1-1/2" higher than the receiver when the trailer is level, per Andersen's instructions.
I will be happy to give you my phone number via PM if you would like to chat with me.
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09-26-2014, 10:47 AM
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#29
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 383
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henboy
I think Andersen told me that 5-6 threads was max. I run 4 max on my rig, some times 3 if the TV load is lighter. Iif you over compress the poly bushings there is no more give, and the bounce control will not be effective.
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If I remember right, 3-4 threads yielded loose chains on my setup, hence having to tighten them further to 6-7 threads. Now I want to start from scratch hooking mine up just to see again. Won't have time till next weekend prob.
__________________
2022 F250
2014 Rockwood Roo 233s
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09-26-2014, 06:57 PM
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#30
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 735
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBaron
I'd love to know the vertical measurement between the center of the ball and the center of the triangular plate.
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It is 7" exactly on center.
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09-26-2014, 07:01 PM
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#31
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 735
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MtnGuy
Great write-up !!
Something just ain't a figuring in the weights.
Picture 3 indicates a 4400 lb. axle weight on the trailer, but in picture 3 the axles weigh 4500 lbs. Subtracting the empty truck weight of 6380 from the total truck weight of 6980 in the 3rd picture is 600 lbs......that should equal the added weight of the tongue, but the tongue weighs 700 lbs. in picture 2.
I realize that the weight shift from the coupler axis to the jack axis could amount to a slight shift in weights, but I would think a 100 lb. tongue weight shift would be outside of the margin. Something else had to happened to cause that difference.......maybe the scale operator was drinking early in the day.
Normally, you do not have to drop the trailer on the scales. The empty truck weight subtracted from the truck weight with the trailer hooked up with the spring bars (in this case, the chains) unhooked should give you a tongue weight.
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I know I didn't have to drop it, but I wanted to get something more accurate than what I had. The scale weights are the scale weights. I am sure there is some margin of error on the scales. They are really made for 10K axle weights that I am not coming anywhere near. I would venture a guess that your primary concern was caused by whatever my angle of the trailer was. I didn't pay that close of attention to that.
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09-26-2014, 07:23 PM
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#32
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 735
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henboy
In my opinion, you are making a simple installation and adjustment process overly complicated.
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The level of detail is completely on purpose. If I had help, it might have been more detailed. This was the entire purpose of my post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henboy
Get rid of the micrometer and follow the instructions on thread count.
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I didn't have a micrometer I used the caliper (which I use all the time anyway for accuracy and my bad memory just like I use the phone camera) to make it easier for others to understand the actual distance that one revolution of the nut means. And I will stand by the statement, the thread count is not accurate. That level of accuracy (I am sure) is not needed day-to-day, but it served my purpose for this documentation. I believe it will make more sense once I have done a little tweaking of the configuration.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henboy
The 1/4" difference in chain length should have been compensated for by the bracket location if you followed the instructions.
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Possibly. I have just returned and sent an after hours note to Andersen (on a Friday) asking if the 1/4 is within what they expect. I also asked about the triangle bracket irregularity. I will let you know.
I did purposely NOT "make sure the chains are still tight and hand tighten" the longer chain because I want to attempt to use the battery framing for additional support. (which I assume Andersen will not agree with anyway)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henboy
Andersen does not want the front of the trailer 1 to 1-1/2 inches lower on initial setup, the trailer should be LEVEL, and the ball 1-1/2 inches higher..
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You are going to need to read the rest of page four of the installation manual again. I did exactly what they wanted me to do and paraphrased the paragraph (3 below) what you are reading. They do indeed want your trailer front '1" to 1-1/2" lower than the back" after you put the full weight on the ball. That results in a near level installation after the chains are tight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henboy
Seven or eight threads seems excessive.
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Again, the thread count is only a relative measurement (as well as being difficult to determine accurately). If I moved the chains back a bit I would make it 4-5, but what would be the real gain? It would not be less compression of the bushing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henboy
Trust Andersen and don't try to fiddle with the starting point they recommend. If you did not setup the chains and brackets as instructed, which will compensate for the chain difference, you need to reinstall the brackets.
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My time constraint left me wanting to do much, that I simply didn't get to do. I may take this advice. It was always my intention to add the welds anyway. I am sure if I go back and "make sure the chains are still tight and hand tighten", that day-to-day use will be easier as they would be a similar (at least in appearance) length.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henboy
I agree, this is a great hitch system. Easy to level and adjust/compensate for different load conditions in the trailer and the TV. I have hitched and un-hitched 13 times this month, and am very happy with my choice.
By the way, Anderson customer service is quite good and quickly answered the several questions I had during installation and initial use.
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Agreed, the fact that I could hardly find ANYONE on the Internet that is an actual owner that doesn't like or love the hitch is one reason I chose this hitch.
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09-26-2014, 07:25 PM
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#33
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 735
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poorbuthappy
Seems more like an infomercial then a review...
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I am reporting my experience to the best of my time/energy/capability so take from it what you wish . . .
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09-26-2014, 07:27 PM
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#34
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 735
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBaron
Sounds more like a prison sentence! Were you in Casey or some other hell hole?
I was being sarcastic... I own an "Engrish" school here.
So you were here when they changed all the signs? They just changed all the street addresses, too. This place is full of geniuses. (more sarcasm)
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Ha! CRC a wonderful waste of taxpayer dollars. 96 and again in 10
Two signs Korea
The first one simply says "You are here" on a sign. Not a map in sight at the entrance to the new airport
The other was on a bus. I am pretty sure I get the idea here, though.
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09-26-2014, 07:40 PM
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#35
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 735
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MtnGuy
Baron, I based my comments on photos 1-3 in post #9. Photo 4 was with the chains hooked up, but the OP indicated the chains were not hooked up in photo #3. Hanging a 700 lb. trailer tongue (as indicated in photo 2, axle 2 ?) behind the bumper of the truck will take weight off of the front axle and load up the rear axle, but the total increase in weight should be 700 lbs. (the weight of the tongue). The weight difference is 600 lbs., not 700 lbs. for the truck, and there is also a change in the trailer axle weights between photo #2 (axle 3 ?) and in photo #3 (again, axle 3).
There will be a slight shift of weight from using the tongue jack and coupler, but I wouldn't think that should be over 20 lbs.
Photo 2 indicates a total trailer weight of 4140 lbs. Figuring the 4500 lb. trailer axle weights in photo #3, plus the additional truck weight of 600 lbs. when adding the trailer tongue, the total trailer weight is 5100 lbs. Those 2 figures are probably within the margin of error, since CAT scales weight on 20 lb. increments. But the shift if axle and tongue weights seems excessive.......of course some of that might also be 20 lb. increment round-offs, but surely not the entire difference.
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I always see differences in weight being a few pounds off or added with these scales. I should have read this one before I replied to you previous one. Yes, I think they just don't care about these small weight differences.
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09-26-2014, 07:43 PM
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#36
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 735
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaadk
Something seems a little off with measurement #3, so I figure most of it's error is from rounding. If you add up Measurements 1 & 2, (truck and trailer) you get a total of 11520, which is the same total he got in #4. In #3, he's down 40 pounds at only 11480.
By my calculations, with the WDH hooked up, (#4) he’s at:
Front: -100
Rear: +640
Trailer: +160
So, 100 lbs from the front transferred to the trailer, as well as 60 lbs off the tongue.
(If I'm reading all this right.)
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I guess, my only concern is getting the weight evenly distributed according to the weights and measurements. I don't think I can be too concerned about 40 -60 lbs. I haven't looked back at this until an hour ago, but IIRC I need to move a little more to the front to get it down a bit.
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09-26-2014, 07:54 PM
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#37
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 735
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henboy
MadMaxxMut:
In my earlier post I neglected to explain why I thought your "thread count" is excessive. I think Andersen told me that 5-6 threads was max. I run 4 max on my rig, some times 3 if the TV load is lighter. Iif you over compress the poly bushings there is no more give, and the bounce control will not be effective.
Based on your narrative, I still think you should re-install the bracket on the "long" chain. Also re-check your Initial Setup to make sure that the hitch ball is 1-1/2" higher than the receiver when the trailer is level, per Andersen's instructions.
I will be happy to give you my phone number via PM if you would like to chat with me.
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Ha, now I am sure I need to read from most recent to first post Thanks and trust me I am putting time and energy into this to help myself and anyone else that may go through this in the future.
I have not seen any limitations published. Did they send you something?
The hitch is rated at almost double what I have on it. I cannot imaging another turn or two increasing to that limit??? approx. 700 vs 1400 would almost certainly compress the spring more, wouldn't it?
I do plan to re-do or at least re-check some of this.
The 1-1/2" is a baseline that did not leave me within the margin of error listed three paragraphs below that statement. Again, it is (only) my belief that they do not take the current spring design into account. The truck drops many inches when weight is on it, not just the max of three inches the initial setting expects. The instructions continue telling you to raise the height (which I did) until you are within the margin of error (trailer level). Maybe this is why I see sooooooo many people pulling trailers 6-10" low in front
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09-26-2014, 10:40 PM
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#38
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madmaxmutt
The level of detail is completely on purpose. If I had help, it might have been more detailed. This was the entire purpose of my post.
I didn't have a micrometer I used the caliper (which I use all the time anyway for accuracy and my bad memory just like I use the phone camera) to make it easier for others to understand the actual distance that one revolution of the nut means. And I will stand by the statement, the thread count is not accurate. That level of accuracy (I am sure) is not needed day-to-day, but it served my purpose for this documentation. I believe it will make more sense once I have done a little tweaking of the configuration.
Possibly. I have just returned and sent an after hours note to Andersen (on a Friday) asking if the 1/4 is within what they expect. I also asked about the triangle bracket irregularity. I will let you know.
I did purposely NOT "make sure the chains are still tight and hand tighten" the longer chain because I want to attempt to use the battery framing for additional support. (which I assume Andersen will not agree with anyway)
You are going to need to read the rest of page four of the installation manual again. I did exactly what they wanted me to do and paraphrased the paragraph (3 below) what you are reading. They do indeed want your trailer front '1" to 1-1/2" lower than the back" after you put the full weight on the ball. That results in a near level installation after the chains are tight.
Again, the thread count is only a relative measurement (as well as being difficult to determine accurately). If I moved the chains back a bit I would make it 4-5, but what would be the real gain? It would not be less compression of the bushing.
My time constraint left me wanting to do much, that I simply didn't get to do. I may take this advice. It was always my intention to add the welds anyway. I am sure if I go back and "make sure the chains are still tight and hand tighten", that day-to-day use will be easier as they would be a similar (at least in appearance) length.
Agreed, the fact that I could hardly find ANYONE on the Internet that is an actual owner that doesn't like or love the hitch is one reason I chose this hitch.
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madmaxmut:
I give up...no more advice from me. You seem determined to do it your way despite very clear instructions furnished by Andersen.
I stand by my earlier observation: Based on your description you seem to have succeeded in installing the hitch incorrectly.
Good luck!
Out.
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09-27-2014, 03:32 AM
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#39
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Incheon, S. Korea
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Incheon, South Korea
Posts: 1,142
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So seven inches from the center of the ball to the center of the triangle plate. Dang, that's short.
Do you feel that you have over 1000 lbs. force on the chains?
__________________
Me, Julie, Lil' Barry, Faith, and OSD Fang
2012 Coachmen Clipper 126 - Don't even have a TV anymore.
I don't know when we'll be able to go camping again...
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09-27-2014, 09:00 AM
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#40
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 735
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henboy
madmaxmut:
I give up...no more advice from me. You seem determined to do it your way despite very clear instructions furnished by Andersen.
I stand by my earlier observation: Based on your description you seem to have succeeded in installing the hitch incorrectly.
Good luck!
Out.
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Ha, it seems the only thing you have determined is that you are right and I am wrong. Well, I tried to answer your concerns.
For anyone else following along at home . . .
Henboy seems to have read most of this. Maybe his fit at the baseline configuration. Mine however did not (as I stated), If you read the last paragraph on the page, I followed it to the letter. I even documented going past that point and returning to the proper point.
On his other point, I think I stipulated that I chose to use the added support of the existing welds and stated that I might follow his advice in the future. Andersen clearly wants your frame to be clear of obstructions. Mine is not at that location. I chose not to do the add/delete chain link method. I have questions out to Andersen. I will await the answer.
I also asked if he has something in writing to confirm his intuition and what he says he was told. There is no difference in the compression. He just wants to use his frame of reference. I used a different starting point. The bushing is still compressed the manual expressed "1/4 of an inch".
Anyway . . .
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