Need help choosing a new tow vehicle

[itat]

Again, diesel = lower payload capacity.

I just read an article that said the diesel option will cost US$2400 more than the Ecoboost option. I can't see the economics working out well, especially when the OP really doesn't really need a diesel to pull a 4000# trailer across the Rocky Mountains.

[lablover]

We have the 5.7L gas engine and love it. Get the tow package already installed and largest gas tank. We pull a Rockwood roo 21bd.

[RACarvalho]

You will need a lot of miles, probably more than 100K towing, to justify the diesel additional cost so if you are thinking about economy, make the calculation and see if you can justify the additional cost of the diesel version, most of people can't.

I recommend looking for a tow vehicle with some room to grow your TT ie.: buy a Tow vehicle that can tow a bigger trailer than what you have today so if you decide to go bigger on the TT in the future, you don't need to change the tow vehicle.

I highly recommend the new F150 with the V8 engine or the 3.5 ecoboost with the HD tow package.
We just returned from a 3500+ miles trip from Indiana to Texas and back with our trailer and love the F150.
The F150 have a higher towing and payload capacity than Ram.

[Lou638]

Happydaze that translates to 16 Imp mpg. And if it's pulling the 6800 lb TT you mention in another post that is very good mileage. I would be curious to know what mileage I would get pulling a 4000 lb RV.

[RagbraiBob]

I use the 2016 Ram ecodiesel to pull my 3,000lb 450lb tongue weight with WDH Aliner Expedition. Probably more truck than I need. Fuel economy not towing on my drive fron Chattanooga to my daughters home in PA. has averaged as high as 32mpg (strong tailwind) to a low of 27mpg for the 740 mile trip. Towing on interstates mileage drops to 21 to 23mpg. Truck currently has 23,000 trouble free miles.
My only concern would be your home location. Not sure how negatively your cold climate might affect the mileage and maintenance of an ecodiesel. You probably should do some research concerning cold weather and ecodiesels. Non towing range is almost enough to non stop to my daughters home. The ride is awesome. Quiet and smooth.

[Lou638]

Hi RagbraiBob your trailer weight is exactly what mine weighs empty and it's this kind of information I was looking for. As for using it in cold weather it can be done but the thing is I don't have to use it when it gets cold. I have a Sienna van for that and have no use for the truck in the winter. Thanks for the post.

[Joseph Carozzoni]

Originally Posted by markb422

Lou638 is correct. The Transit is a 5 inline and it is 3.2L NOT a 3.0 turbo v6.

From the Detroit Free Press:

"The Ford powertrain team responsible for the 6.7-liter Power Stroke engine in Super Duty trucks since 2011 designed and engineered the all-new 3.0 Power Stroke V6 diesel to the specific needs of North America. It is an F-150-specific derivative of the diesel engine built at a Ford plant in the United Kingdom..."

From other sources:

"The automaker said it expects the engine will deliver 30 highway mpg as well as 11,400 lbs. towing and 2,020 payload capacity."

"The 3.0L diesel is good for 250 hp. and 440 lbs.-ft. of torque, with peak torque available very quickly at 1,750 rpm and "strong torque delivery continuing throughout the rpm range," the OEM said, optimizing it for towing or hauling heavy loads."

[Jakieboy]

Fuel economy and towing capacity are just two of the factors that I consider when planning to purchase a new tow vehicle. If you are a young, growing family, you may also want to consider the future upgrades to a larger TT when your children arrive. We have upgraded from a pop-up trailer, to a 24-foot TT, to a 27-foot TT with slides, and now to a 35-foot 5th wheel. In the middle of those trailer upgrades we also upgraded to a Silverado 2500 HD Duramax Diesel tow vehicle. We upgraded our towing mpg from 6 - 6.5 mpg to 13 mpg by going to diesel. That was ten years ago, and we are still going strong.

[Lou638]

We are both retired and did it all with the kids, tent camping small pop-up to larger pop-up to motor home and now a cottage for the last 15 years or so. We still have the cottage but now that we are retired we plan on traveling all over and the Wolf Pup is all the TT we need for just the two of us it's perfect. So I think it will be nice to travel in the comfort of a full size truck that gets the same mileage as a midsize.

[mwdilday]

Originally Posted by donniedu

You might look at the Ford F150 Ecoboost also. While I would NEVER ever consider the aluminum bed the ecoboost is a proven motor that does very well as long as you stay within its payload.

The aluminum bed in the F350 is no problem at all.

[Jakieboy]

This is a great website. We all get to share our experiences after 30-40-50 or more years of RV'ing adventures. And there is never any rancor or venom expressed when opinions differ and collide!!


Our political leaders could take a big lesson on civility from the members of this RV community.

[Lou638]

I think people who go RV'ing as you put it are a different kind of people. We go to a lot of trouble sometimes to go camping especially with kids but you know what, these are the best times you can spend together as a family. Even now my kids are married and we still all meet up at the cottage or some campground to spend quality time together.

[brian372lok]

I originally bought a super duty diesel because I wanted one. Had dents in the steel bed and none in the aluminum. Mileage is pretty good on the eco, and better on the new ford, which you can see on the website now. I have drove the small v6 turbo f150, and it was a beast, can’t image what the big V6 turbo would be like.

[OldBob]

Originally Posted by Lou638

Hello to all and I hope you can help me. Last fall my wife and I purchased a small TT empty weight 3000 lbs loaded GVWR just under 4000 lbs. We live in norther Ontario Canada want to go to the east and west coasts with it. I am looking at a few tow vehicles and would like to know your opinions on them, both are Ram 1500 trucks the 3.0L eco diesel or the 3.6L pentastar engine. I am looking for fuel economy and good reliability.

Good choices. I've had both, a 2014 Pentastar and now have a 2015 EcoDiesel. The Pentastar has lots of horsepower and acceleration. I've even pulled a 5000 pound trailer with it. Please do yourself a favor and buy the EcoDiesel. The Diesel will get superior fuel economy and you'll have a MUCH happier towing experience. Plus...you'll be ready for when you might want a bigger and heavier trailer. And...if you find yourself near Detroit you can stop at Green Diesel Engineering. They will retune your EcoDiesel to give you more torque and horsepower plus it will run cleaner with a boost in fuel economy that's hard to believe. We pull 8000 pounds with our EcoDiesel and there is no stress or strain and we get over 16 mpg towing.

[TheGerman]

Disclaimer: I own a RAM 1500 with the Pentastar engine and 3.55 gearing.

The problem I see with the Ecodiesel is that it has a very limited space where it really makes sense. As already mentioned, the relatively heavy engine cuts into the payload. Then, while it is a torquey turbo diesel, it's only rated at 240hp. The gas V6 is a little more spirited when not towing. Finally, and that's a personal pet peeve of mine and might be different for Canadian models, the EPA mandated "200 mile until shutdown" in case of problems with the emissions equipment makes driving in sparsely populated areas a bit of a gamble.

For a small trailer like the one the OP has the Pentastar (with 3.55 gearing) will do fine, mine is a Wolfpup and I get ~13 mpg with the trailer, going over mountain ranges in the West. It does rev up to 5k rpm on steep climbs which might be a bit unnerving. Unloaded I routinely see over 20 mpg in the summer.

[OldBob]

True the Pentastar is very spirited but so is my EcoDiesel, especially after the "Hot Tune" at Green Diesel Engineering. No Diesel lag and 34 MPG on the highway (not towing) and more HP and much more torque after the tune. Truly, there should be no worry what so ever about having to add DEF. I have to add a 2 1/2 gallon jug of DEF every 10,000 miles or so and I believe my tank is 8 gallons plus I have a gauge! If I run low on DEF it's my own fault and DEF only costs $7.99 for 2 1/2 gallons at Walmart. These days it's about as easy to find DEF as it is to find water. My payload is just over 1600 pounds, not a lot but fine for my needs. If towing is important I recommend the EcoDiesel over the Pentastar.

[RACarvalho]

Originally Posted by OldBob

True the Pentastar is very spirited but so is my EcoDiesel, especially after the "Hot Tune" at Green Diesel Engineering. No Diesel lag and 34 MPG on the highway (not towing) and more HP and much more torque after the tune. Truly, there should be no worry what so ever about having to add DEF. I have to add a 2 1/2 gallon jug of DEF every 10,000 miles or so and I believe my tank is 8 gallons plus I have a gauge! If I run low on DEF it's my own fault and DEF only costs $7.99 for 2 1/2 gallons at Walmart. These days it's about as easy to find DEF as it is to find water. My payload is just over 1600 pounds, not a lot but fine for my needs. If towing is important I recommend the EcoDiesel over the Pentastar.

That is were I think this Diesel x Gas conversation becomes interesting...
I tow a 8000lbs+ 35ft (hitch to bumper) trailer with the F150 V8 (HD payload package) and I got 8mpg overall for a 3500+miles trip.
7.5mpg was normal on the trip but we got strong headwinds for half the trip.

So looking at these numbers it seems to make sense to go diesel for the fuel economy until you realize two things:
1- Payload
2 - Horsepower

Payload:
The tongue weight in my TT is ~ 1000 lbs and If I had only 1600 lbs of payload, I would be left with 600 pounds of payload for people (in my case 5 of us) and gear which is not enough!!!
My gas truck has 2700lbs (door post sticker) of payload so even with 1000lbs tongue weight I still have 1700lbs for people + cargo.

Horsepower:
I don't believe I would be able to keep 65mph going uphill against the winds we faced with only 250hp.
In those situations, the engine was running at 3K rpm in 6th gear (10 spd trans.) which translates in almost 250hp according to the V8 power curve. That means that while the V8 was running at 1/2 total power in this situation, that diesel would be flooring to keep up with that speed meaning the comfort provided by the lower torque when accelerating could translate in discomfort of not being able to keep up with traffic due to lack of HPs in certain situations....

So for this size of engine, Diesel may make sense on a particular situation were you have a light TT with a light tongue weight and a very sloped front cap but if you move to a heavier TT with a more flat front cap, that set up will quickly reach it's limits in payload and power...

[OldBob]

Yes, everyone's situation is different. For us it's just my wife and I. But keep in mind that for towing horsepower has little to do with it. Torque is what you need. I've pulled our trailer all over the country and recently to Utah and back. Our truck may downshift once but I was always to maintain the cruise control speed of 62. After the Green Diesel Engineering tune we now have 270 HP but 485 lb/ft of torque. That is considerably more than most V8 gas engines while getting 16 mpg towing. But of course everyone's situation and needs are different. The most important thing is to enjoy your travels and be safe. Life is too short to do otherwise.

[spock123]

Originally Posted by TheGerman

Disclaimer: I own a RAM 1500 with the Pentastar engine and 3.55 gearing.

The problem I see with the Ecodiesel is that it has a very limited space where it really makes sense. As already mentioned, the relatively heavy engine cuts into the payload. Then, while it is a torquey turbo diesel, it's only rated at 240hp. The gas V6 is a little more spirited when not towing. Finally, and that's a personal pet peeve of mine and might be different for Canadian models, the EPA mandated "200 mile until shutdown" in case of problems with the emissions equipment makes driving in sparsely populated areas a bit of a gamble.

For a small trailer like the one the OP has the Pentastar (with 3.55 gearing) will do fine, mine is a Wolfpup and I get ~13 mpg with the trailer, going over mountain ranges in the West. It does rev up to 5k rpm on steep climbs which might be a bit unnerving. Unloaded I routinely see over 20 mpg in the summer.

That 200 mile until shutdown will scare the H. out of you if in a sparsely place, will make you think about pulling the DEF off the truck. I got scared last year in Alaska

[OldBob]

Originally Posted by spock123

That 200 mile until shutdown will scare the H. out of you if in a sparsely place, will make you think about pulling the DEF off the truck. I got scared last year in Alaska

Indeed. If you know the right people you can remove that 200 mile limit. In fact you can remove the need for DEF permanently if you wish.