Need your help with Tow Ratings

[Slow Moon]

Originally Posted by AudiDudi

From the PA DOT website:
CLASS A (minimum age 18): Required to operate any combination of vehicles with a gross weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more, where the vehicle(s) being towed is/are in excess of 10,000 pounds. Example: Recreational Vehicle, when the towing vehicle is rated at 11,000 pounds and the vehicle towed is rated at 15,500 pounds (total combination weight of 26,500 pounds).



https://www.dmv.pa.gov/Driver-Servic...s/default.aspx

A little off topic, but interesting point on how manufacturers establish Weight Ratings.

Suppose an RV manufacturer’s engineers conclude that 27,100 lb is a good, safe GVWR for its RV. If that manufacturer wants to sell more RVs in PA, might it rate its RV at 26,000 lb?

This marketing approach may apply to many vehicles for various tax, registration, licensing and other regulatory requirements triggered by GVWR. Could this be why Ford limits F250s to 9800 or 10,000 GVWR when nearly identical F350s are rated far higher? This would make a HUGE difference in rated payloads. If so, then it would be safe to carry considerably more payload than the little sticker would allow.

I am a speculating ignoramus about this, so I’d like to learn from members here who know something about this. Perhaps it should be another thread.

[Boomerweps]

Originally Posted by Slow Moon

A little off topic, but interesting point on how manufacturers establish Weight Ratings.

Suppose an RV manufacturer’s engineers conclude that 27,100 lb is a good, safe GVWR for its RV. If that manufacturer wants to sell more RVs in PA, might it rate its RV at 26,000 lb?

This marketing approach may apply to many vehicles for various tax, registration, licensing and other regulatory requirements triggered by GVWR. Could this be why Ford limits F250s to 9800 or 10,000 GVWR when nearly identical F350s are rated far higher? This would make a HUGE difference in rated payloads. If so, then it would be safe to carry considerably more payload than the little sticker would allow.

I am a speculating ignoramus about this, so I’d like to learn from members here who know something about this. Perhaps it should be another thread.

Yes, this does occur. In PA, GTWR at 3K# and above must have trailer brakes and be annually inspected. My former 10x6x6' cargo trailer had a 3500# axle (with sufficient tire capacity) but had a GWTR of 2990#.

[mxdad]

Originally Posted by Slow Moon

A little off topic, but interesting point on how manufacturers establish Weight Ratings.

Suppose an RV manufacturer’s engineers conclude that 27,100 lb is a good, safe GVWR for its RV. If that manufacturer wants to sell more RVs in PA, might it rate its RV at 26,000 lb?

This marketing approach may apply to many vehicles for various tax, registration, licensing and other regulatory requirements triggered by GVWR. Could this be why Ford limits F250s to 9800 or 10,000 GVWR when nearly identical F350s are rated far higher? This would make a HUGE difference in rated payloads. If so, then it would be safe to carry considerably more payload than the little sticker would allow.

I am a speculating ignoramus about this, so I’d like to learn from members here who know something about this. Perhaps it should be another thread.

Ford does this with F350's as well. There is a 10000 GVWR package that you can get on an F350 for those markets that tax these types of vehicles differently. It is the exact same truck as every other F350 with the exception of a sticker.

[JohnD10]

Originally Posted by Slow Moon

I am a speculating ignoramus about this, so I’d like to learn from members here who know something about this. Perhaps it should be another thread.

I thought you knew that we all are experts on this subject!

No matter what our stance on this subject may be...

[Slow Moon]

Originally Posted by Boomerweps

Yes, this does occur. In PA, GTWR at 3K# and above must have trailer brakes and be annually inspected. My former 10x6x6' cargo trailer had a 3500# axle (with sufficient tire capacity) but had a GWTR of 2990#.

Well there ya' go!

PERFECT EXAMPLE OF "other regulatory requirements triggered by GVWR."

I KNEW I was missing something, and you filled it right in.

THANKS!!

[Slow Moon]

Originally Posted by mxdad

Ford does this with F350's as well. There is a 10000 GVWR package that you can get on an F350 for those markets that tax these types of vehicles differently. It is the exact same truck as every other F350 with the exception of a sticker.

Oh, that's a good one: a reduced GVWR "package" option focused by jurisdiction. Marketing guys change the engineer's GVWR and payload sticker. Great example, THANKS!

[Slow Moon]

Originally Posted by JohnD10

I thought you knew that we all are experts on this subject!

No matter what our stance on this subject may be...

Thanks! Your humor is very well taken. I’m old enough to know there’s more I don’t know than I know, and the ratio constantly gets worse. If I think to do so, it helps the discourse to admit outright that I’m not the most educated guy on the subject. In this case, I’ve smoked out a couple of contributors that have real information. Thanks, Boomerwep and MxDad! And thanks again to you JohnD10 for the applicable humor.

[spock123]

Originally Posted by upflying

Probably should add product liability attorneys to the decisions made by engineers.
No one gets cited for overweight tow vehicle combinations..unless a crash happens, especially a fatal one.
Then LEO's will reconstruct the circumstances and weight prior to the crash will be in the collision report.
Then attorneys and insurance companies get to look at the collision report.
Notice I never refer to them as accident reports.

Please post a example of what you are talking about actually happening.

Does anyone actually know the formula that rv manufactures use in setting up how much the camper can carry. Is it the tires plus the axles

[JohnD10]

Originally Posted by spock123

Does anyone actually know the formula that rv manufactures use in setting up how much the camper can carry.

Is it the tires plus the axles?

No...

It will be whichever has the lowest weight rating of the two...

[woo10-210]

Originally Posted by Wolf26

I would like to know how these engineers come up with these numbers? An odd ball number like 2407, really ? As if 2408 would make it automatically implode or something.

Easy. That truck has a 10,000 lb. GVWR. From the factory it weighs 7,593 lbs. with full fuel and a 150 lb. driver. 7,593 + 2,407 = 10,000. Let's say the factory adds one more option such as a power sunroof that weighs 85 pounds.
The new payload is now 2,323. All of those options add up.

[spock123]

Originally Posted by woo10-210

Easy. That truck has a 10,000 lb. GVWR. From the factory it weighs 7,593 lbs. with full fuel and a 150 lb. driver. 7,593 + 2,407 = 10,000. Let's say the factory adds one more option such as a power sunroof that weighs 85 pounds.

The new payload is now 2,323. All of those options add up.

Just how does the rv manufactures arrive at how much the camper can carry.

[Slow Moon]

Originally Posted by woo10-210

Easy. That truck has a 10,000 lb. GVWR. From the factory it weighs 7,593 lbs. with full fuel and a 150 lb. driver. 7,593 + 2,407 = 10,000. Let's say the factory adds one more option such as a power sunroof that weighs 85 pounds.
The new payload is now 2,323. All of those options add up.

How was the 10,000 GVWR calculated. THAT's the mystery.

[frank4711]

Originally Posted by Slow Moon

Thanks! Your humor is very well taken. I’m old enough to know there’s more I don’t know than I know, and the ratio constantly gets worse. If I think to do so, it helps the discourse to admit outright that I’m not the most educated guy on the subject. In this case, I’ve smoked out a couple of contributors that have real information. Thanks, Boomerwep and MxDad! And thanks again to you JohnD10 for the applicable humor.

Old and knowing?? they say "knowing is 1/2 the battle" at my age I say "1/2 the battle is 1/2 the battle"

[woo10-210]

Originally Posted by Slow Moon

How was the 10,000 GVWR calculated. THAT's the mystery.

That's a load classification established by the U.S. Government and is based on standardized testing. The manufacturers design the vehicle to meet a certain class. Granted, a 10,000 lb. rated truck could actually be capable of safely carrying 12,000 lbs. On the other hand, it could also just barely meet the 10,000 lb. standard.

Truck Size Classifications

[Slow Moon]

Originally Posted by woo10-210

That's a load classification established by the U.S. Government and is based on standardized testing. The manufacturers design the vehicle to meet a certain class. Granted, a 10,000 lb. rated truck could actually be capable of safely carrying 12,000 lbs. On the other hand, it could also just barely meet the 10,000 lb. standard.

Truck Size Classifications

With all due respect, neither my question nor this thread should be associated with your answer or the article you cite. An ignoramus car blogger wrote the article. He says "GVWR refers to the maximum operating weight a truck can possibly carry while driving including the truck itself." You and everyone here knows that is false. You know "a 10,000 lb. rated truck could actually be capable of safely carrying 12,000 lbs."

This thread is FAR deeper than that article written for casual car blog readers who have not heard of GVWR and don’t use heavier trucks. It is unlikely to be of value to anyone here.

Posts above by Boomerwep and MxDad show what this thread is about.

[quick83]

Originally Posted by spock123

Just how does the rv manufactures arrive at how much the camper can carry.

The axle rating I believe. Also tires can limit your weight.

[spock123]

Originally Posted by quick83

The axle rating I believe. Also tires can limit your weight.

So two 7,000lbs axles, that would be 14,000lbs but the yellow sticker says 15,725lbs

[quick83]

I know. But they ARE rated for 7,000lbs. I’m thinking not ALL the weight is on the axle, 15-20% is on the pin. So the rating is for when hooked up. my RV GVWR Is 15,441. That’s the wt of Rv empty with the
Max amount of cargo added together.

[woo10-210]

Originally Posted by Slow Moon

With all due respect, neither my question nor this thread should be associated with your answer or the article you cite.

Oooooohhhhhh . . . . . . . I see what you did there. You quote my post and ask me a direct question to which I answer with what I believed to be good information, then you proceed to tell me that my answer shouldn't be associated with your question or this thread. I think that's called flamebaiting.

[Boomerweps]

Originally Posted by spock123

Just how does the rv manufactures arrive at how much the camper can carry.

Side topic issue.
IMHO, axle(s) weight rating plus some expected to be carried by the TV tongue weight or pin weight sets the Gross Trailer Weight Rating (GTWR). The maker weighs the TT, subtracts that from the GTWR, what remains is the Cargo Carrying Capacity (CCC).