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03-08-2013, 09:29 AM
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#61
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Engineer of Crazy Train
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Tiverton, RI
Posts: 1,585
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We were in the same situation as you. We love the 23RS (and 25RS more). I know that my baby diesel could handle it without much issues with the proper hitch setup and on relatively flat land. But something told me to look smaller. That is when I came across the 21BH. It still fits our family, but just a little less space. Actually I like the dinette and kitchen better in the 21BH over the 23RS. One day, I will upgrade.
__________________
TV - 2015 Ram Truck EcoDiesel
TV - 2006 Jeep Liberty Turbo Diesel (Retired to Daily Driver)
TT - 2015 Rockwood Roo 183 (SOLD due to 2 years off work)
Locomotive Engineer
Nights Camping --- 2015 - 19 Camped | Winterized -- 2014 - 18
Come read my Camping Blogs
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03-08-2013, 09:31 AM
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#62
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Flagstaff 625D Popup
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Shiremanstown PA
Posts: 207
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Also, if you get into an accident your insurance may not pay if the trailer is "too much" for the tow vehicle.
I know the feeling of "I want what I want", but seriously it's not worth risking people.
Have you considered a trailer with a rear slide (not the tent material like the hybrids). They have a hard slide that has the bed. Gives you lots of room when it is out. And with most you can still access the food storage and the potty even with the rear slide in.
The best advise I could give you is to not rush into anything. Take your time. The right camper that you can safely pull is out there. You just need to keep looking and keeping an open mind.
Bean
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03-08-2013, 09:41 AM
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#63
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Engineer of Crazy Train
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Tiverton, RI
Posts: 1,585
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bean
Also, if you get into an accident your insurance may not pay if the trailer is "too much" for the tow vehicle.
I know the feeling of "I want what I want", but seriously it's not worth risking people.
Have you considered a trailer with a rear slide (not the tent material like the hybrids). They have a hard slide that has the bed. Gives you lots of room when it is out. And with most you can still access the food storage and the potty even with the rear slide in.
The best advise I could give you is to not rush into anything. Take your time. The right camper that you can safely pull is out there. You just need to keep looking and keeping an open mind.
Bean
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Those 2 models I posted above are very nice campers. Hope they still have the 25RS in 5 years. Both Roo and Shamrock have those models, and Keystone Outbacks have similar.
__________________
TV - 2015 Ram Truck EcoDiesel
TV - 2006 Jeep Liberty Turbo Diesel (Retired to Daily Driver)
TT - 2015 Rockwood Roo 183 (SOLD due to 2 years off work)
Locomotive Engineer
Nights Camping --- 2015 - 19 Camped | Winterized -- 2014 - 18
Come read my Camping Blogs
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03-08-2013, 09:43 AM
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#64
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 53
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We are also a family of 5 and I went through much of the same questions as you are going through now. We loved the space of the separate bunkroom trailers but I just didnt want to have to get the truck to tow them. We settled on the Surveyor SP260. Triple bunk so each of the kids have their own space (and window which is very nice) and room left with the fold down table for a guest. We spend most of our time outside but if it is raining we simply take the table out and use the dinette as a u-shaped couch. It has been 2 years now and we really like the trailer and it is a comfortable tow with our GMC half ton crew cab. Good luck.
__________________
2011 Surveyor SP260
2012 Ford Expedition
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03-08-2013, 02:56 PM
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#65
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Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 83
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So one question I failed to ask is, what is the longest trailer you think I can safely tow based on a 123" wheelbase? Is there any science to this or is it experience and intuition?
My Aramada is like a Tahoe or Expedition so I assume we would all be in the same position.
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03-08-2013, 03:18 PM
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#66
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Southeast Wisconsin
Posts: 6,949
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There is no real standard for wheelbase to trailer length. There is a general rule of thumb that was developed (as I understand it) without engineering or any experimentation behind it. IOW its someone's opinion:
For the first 110" of wheelbase, this allows you 20' of trailer.
For each additional 4" of wheelbase, this gets you 1' more of trailer."
Basically, the longer the TV's wheelbase the better handling with a longer trailer.
__________________
Scott
DW, 3 Kids and our Goldens
2012 Shamrock 233S
2008 Toyota Sequoia 5.7L 4WD
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03-08-2013, 03:38 PM
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#67
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Southeast Wisconsin
Posts: 6,949
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Also, I should add there is a bit more to matching up the TV and TT. A heavier TV will do better than a lighter TV with the same trailer. So, its not just wheelbase that matters here because the longer the tow vehicle wheelbase and heavier the tow vehicle, the less apt sway is to begin.
What you want to do is to find an SUV that is adequate in its tow capacity, its weight ratings and its payload AND is stable. The wheelbase and weight of the vehicle plays into this.
__________________
Scott
DW, 3 Kids and our Goldens
2012 Shamrock 233S
2008 Toyota Sequoia 5.7L 4WD
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03-08-2013, 03:48 PM
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#68
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Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 83
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So if I go with a pro pride hitch, I might be able to stretch it to 30'. I've been reading some Armada forums and there seem to be a few people pulling 30 to 33 foot trailers with a lot of success. It seems the biggest issue is the GVWR and keeping it under 7500 wet and an expensive WDH/Stanalizer pkg makes a big difference.
Maybe the Coachmen 292 would work. 29' box and ~32' tip to tail. It also comes in at ~ 6K dry and ~ 740 HW
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03-08-2013, 04:45 PM
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#69
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Shenandoah Valley of Virginia
Posts: 9,280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triguy
There is no real standard for wheelbase to trailer length. There is a general rule of thumb that was developed (as I understand it) without engineering or any experimentation behind it. IOW its someone's opinion:
For the first 110" of wheelbase, this allows you 20' of trailer.
For each additional 4" of wheelbase, this gets you 1' more of trailer."
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An equation that closely follows those "suggestions" is:
The tow vehicle wheelbase in inches divided by 5 should be the maximum conventional bumper pull overall trailer length in feet.
With that calculation, a 123" wheelbase vehicle should tow a maximum of a 24.6' trailer.
__________________
Chap , DW Joy, and Fur Baby Sango
2017 F350 Lariat CCSB, SRW, 4x4, 6.7 PS
2017 Grand Design Reflection 337RLS
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03-08-2013, 04:56 PM
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#70
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Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 69
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Hornswoggle, I have a QX56 which is also made by Nissan and very similar to the Armada in terms of towing capacity. After much research and numbers crunching I decided to get the Wildcat Maxx 26BHS. However, the 29BHS looks like it could have worked but would have been pushing the wheel base to trailer length guideline and the tongue weight limit once gear and accessories were added. Take a look on Forest River's website at the Wildcat Maxx 29BHS. It has a separate bedroom for kids with three beds, cable tv hookup and closet. Wildcat Maxx Travel Trailer by Forest River
__________________
2013 Forest River Wildcat Maxx 26BHS
2011 Infinity QX56
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03-08-2013, 09:25 PM
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#71
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Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 46
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So that means I have 139.9 " wheelbase on my truck I should be ok towing a 28' trailer ?
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03-08-2013, 09:27 PM
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#72
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Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnguy
An equation that closely follows those "suggestions" is:
The tow vehicle wheelbase in inches divided by 5 should be the maximum conventional bumper pull overall trailer length in feet.
With that calculation, a 123" wheelbase vehicle should tow a maximum of a 24.6' trailer.
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Mine is 139.9 wheel base so I should be able to to a 28' trailer ? Thanks
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03-09-2013, 12:09 PM
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#73
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Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 83
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Does anyone have experience or any feedback on the SolAire Ultra Lites? They are a FR product, but I cannot find any reviews. Is it a quality camper? Would it be a step above or step below the Coachmen?
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03-09-2013, 03:31 PM
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#74
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Site Team
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Goodyear, Arizona
Posts: 33,775
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hornswoggle
Does anyone have experience or any feedback on the SolAire Ultra Lites? They are a FR product, but I cannot find any reviews. Is it a quality camper? Would it be a step above or step below the Coachmen?
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Solaire is the new name for Palomino's ultralites.
they used to have the Stampede hybrids and Gazelles and Thoroughbred lines.
now they have the Solaire name for all of them.
so you won't find anything about the Solaire before 2012.
__________________
Dan-Retired California Firefighter/EMT
Shawn-Musician/Entrepreneur/Wine Expert
and Zoe the Wonder Dog(R.I.P.)
2016 PrimeTime TracerAIR 255, pushing a 2014 Ford F150 SCREW XTR 4x4 3.5 Ecoboost w/Max Tow Package
4pt Equal-i-zer WDH and 1828lbs of payload capacity
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03-09-2013, 06:25 PM
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#75
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Shenandoah Valley of Virginia
Posts: 9,280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sam2581
So that means I have 139.9 " wheelbase on my truck I should be ok towing a 28' trailer ?
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Yes and no.
Much depends on the type truck, loads, WDH, sway control, etc....
I don't think I would want to pull a 28' camper with a mid sized truck.....a Colorado, Frontier, or Tacoma.
Depending on the weight of the camper, along with the tongue weigh, plus the tow ratings, GVWR, GCWR and hitch ratings of 1/2 ton trucks, many should be OK. You would just have to do some homework.
Most 3/4 or 1 ton trucks should be good, again depending on the above criteria.
__________________
Chap , DW Joy, and Fur Baby Sango
2017 F350 Lariat CCSB, SRW, 4x4, 6.7 PS
2017 Grand Design Reflection 337RLS
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03-10-2013, 10:24 AM
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#76
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Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 83
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So I spent the last 5-6 days going through every TT manufacturer I could find. I poured over floor plans, reviews and forums on each TT manufacturer and I found that the shorter campers would not function for my family so I focused on finding a shorter BH unit that has good towing characteristics.
I looked at the following:
- Bullet 286QBS (32’ 10” / 5,230 UVW / 585 HW)
- Crossroads ST290QB (32’ 7” / 5,838 UVW / 664 HW)
- Coachmen 292BHDS (33’ 5” / 6,344 UVW / 740 HW)
- Shadow Cruiser 280QBS (32’ / 5,400 UVW / 530 HW)
- Coachmen 291QBS (33’ 4” / 5,333 UVW / 594 HW)
- Kodiak 283BHSL (32’ / 5,398 UVW / 732 HW)
I then came across the following FR Thread on the Coachmen 292BHDS and it helped sway me towards this unit. There are a few people with Armadas, Expeditions, Etc that are pulling this TT in a safe and responsible manner. It seems that the people that have taken the time to invest in the right WDH/Sway Control set up are having an enjoyable experience with this unit.
http://www.forestriverforums.com/forums/f214/coachmen-freedom-express-292bhds-19734.html
I really appreciate everyone’s feedback on this thread and I am glad you helped me avoid a mistake with the 320BHDS. I know some will still think this TT is too much for my TV, but I have read 5-6 threads (Club Armada Forum, FR forum and others) that support the fact that the Armada is clearly capable of towing a 33’ TT with the right WDH/Sway Control.
Rick
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03-10-2013, 11:27 AM
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#77
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Paintsville, KY
Posts: 157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hornswoggle
So I spent the last 5-6 days going through every TT manufacturer I could find. I poured over floor plans, reviews and forums on each TT manufacturer and I found that the shorter campers would not function for my family so I focused on finding a shorter BH unit that has good towing characteristics.
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Might I ask what it is that you NEED in a trailer? Just wondering as we have a family of six that has camped in a pup, a TT with no slides, and now a 28ft TT with a slide and none of the campers were hard to live with. I have also used a Propride 3p and while its a nice hitch it is heavy and I really didn't feel it giving me my money's worth over my trusty Equal-I-zer, YRMV. Just don't let a hitch try to be a band-aid on a questionable setup.
In the end I think if you are safe, setup you WDH correctly and drive slow you will be fine. Let us know how your towing experiences go, we are all curious I'm sure, enjoy.
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03-10-2013, 12:05 PM
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#78
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Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 83
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First and foremost, we wanted a bed for each child. My kids do not sleep well when we put them in the same bed, so a separate bunk for each child was critical.
When we started this experience, we really wanted a slide out in the BH so the kids would have a space of their own on rainy days, but realized that all the TTs that had that option where too heavy and too long.
As a result, we narrowed our search to BH models with 3-4 bunks in the back. We then looked at the options, quality and general feel when we walked inside them.
I put together a spread sheet and color coded things we liked and didn’t like such as;
· Outside Shower
· Outside Kitchen
· 36” Slide vs 18” Slide
· Etc
What I found is that of all the models we looked at and then narrowed down, the Coachmen has the best fit and finish. We looked at every model in person and the 292BHDS fit our needs and felt like it was the best quality.
I can send you the spreadsheet, if you want to see it.
Rick
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03-10-2013, 12:09 PM
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#79
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,219
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You don't have to justify your decision to anyone but yourself. Not that it matters, but I think that trailer is good choice.
__________________
2011 Flagstaff 831FKBSS
2010 F250 4X4 5.4L 3.73 LS
EQUALIZER E4 1200/12000
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03-10-2013, 12:15 PM
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#80
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Washington state
Posts: 1,258
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Have you considered renting the models you are considering? This way you will be able to feel (first hand) how your vehicle handles with the weight and length of the propsed trailer before committing to a long term contract.
I now have a small trailer (used to have motorhome and travel trailer) but downsized, an easy pull for either of our trucks. That said, last year was an eye opener when the leaf spring broke and punched thru the Titans truck bed as we were pulling the loaded trailer out of the shop. We ended up taking the F150 instead & replace both leaf springs when we returned from our trip and it turns out that the leaf spring was a problem for many Nissan truck owners...
My point is, breakdowns do happen, but why cause them to occur prematurely with excess strain on your vehicle's engine, transmission or framework? What may "work" for some may not be the wisest choice, it's human nature to make something work because we want it to be so...LOL. I am guilty of it in other situations (in a pinch, I'll make it work) but not where it concerns long term safety issues - I go toe to toe with my spouse if I ever hear him say "he'll make it work" when we've been advised otherwise. LOL Thankfully (after 23 yrs of togetherness) it doesnt happen that often.
But seriously, renting your future purchase may answer a few of your concerns...dont rush yourself into a purchase because you "want it now"...salespeople arent the ones who will pay the bill or have to live with any problems that pop up - you and your spouse do, tho. Deals come up all the time...keep researching and try to remove emotion and ego (sales people's best closing motivators) when looking.
__________________
2012 FR Flagstaff T12SDTH
1996 Shadowcruiser Pop Up Truck Camper
1967 Newell Motorcoach
2003 Ford F150 5.4 V8 Triton Super Cab
2004 Nissan Titan LE 5.6 V8 4x4 Crew Cab
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